OT : Should I screw over my company?

[Huge]

Ok - as a computer geek I've been covering an area of work for the last year and a half for our department. I basically picked up everything on my own without any help from anyone and am now the prime for all support/admin stuff. Anyways - things have been tight in our company with money so I've applied for training and it's been turned down because there was no money to cover it. So I've been getting annoyed with the job and the icing on the cake recently was discovering that a coworker who does the same job as me is on 6 grand more than I am. So I've been applying for other jobs and have interviews coming up. Of course now the training course has been approved. So, there is a good chance that one of these interviews will pay off and I'll move. Now I'm in a dilemma - do I take the training which will boost my CV but screw over my employer and will probably mean I get a bad reference - or do I do the decent thing and say "Look you're better investing your money in someone who will be here for a while to use the training" and giving them the option sending someone else ??? I haven't a new job lined up for definite yet, but it'll look bad if I get the training then jump ship so close to it that the company won't receive any benefit from it.... Ah the moral dilhemma :)

[Kendrix]

You dont have a new job yet. In the meantime, you have to do whats right for #1. This is not screwing over your company. I dont see any foul here at all. What are you gonna do? - tell your boss you are looking around and might leave? What if nothing comes up? Take the training dude.

[Rog]

What Kendrix said :thu:

[Calfee Jones]

Take the training. You'd still be looking for a new job if you had already had the training. You feel like you have deserved it, and it will be good for the resume, so take it! I can't see any problem here. I expect that training is part of the deal that your employer made with you, and they are finally living up to it, even though it is almost too late. Besides, you don't have another job yet, so you should keep on pushing forward!

[rog951]

Everyone is ALWAYS looking for a better job. No crime in that. The only possible moral problem I can see with your situation is if you're already certain you're getting another job and leaving before the date of your training. I mean, if you know for a fact that you'll be sticking the current company with a non-refundable training fee. Otherwise, I don't see the problem. You take the training, you update your resume, you keep looking to better yourself. There should be no problems with bad references if you give them adequate notice that you're leaving. Besides, you don't generally allow prospective employers talk to your current employer, right? Anyway, maybe I'm missing something but I don't really see the problem... :confused:

[DanS]

Take the trsining. It's a reward for all the shit you've already put up with. Remember, raises & rewards are for work you've already done.

[the stranger]

[quote]Originally posted by Huge: [b]Ok - as a computer geek I've been covering an area of work for the last year and a half for our department. I basically picked up everything on my own without any help from anyone and am now the prime for all support/admin stuff. Anyways - things have been tight in our company with money so I've applied for training and it's been turned down because there was no money to cover it. So I've been getting annoyed with the job and the icing on the cake recently was discovering that a coworker who does the same job as me is on 6 grand more than I am. So I've been applying for other jobs and have interviews coming up. Of course now the training course has been approved. So, there is a good chance that one of these interviews will pay off and I'll move. Now I'm in a dilemma - do I take the training which will boost my CV but screw over my employer and will probably mean I get a bad reference - or do I do the decent thing and say "Look you're better investing your money in someone who will be here for a while to use the training" and giving them the option sending someone else ??? I haven't a new job lined up for definite yet, but it'll look bad if I get the training then jump ship so close to it that the company won't receive any benefit from it.... Ah the moral dilhemma :) [/b][/quote]TAKE THE TRAINING! :thu:

[Jeebus]

Your employer can go fuck himself. Take the training and run!

[ha ha faa_Q]

Yes and no. :freak:

[alcohol]

Risk is part of the game in a capitalist society. If they train you and then you find a better job, that's the risk they take. You're taking risks working for them.

[DRi]

ahaha the jeebus has spoken

[Slowly]

Screw them before they screw you... and that advice is coming from a Christian. Boss's don't seem to care anymore. Kcbass

[fantasticsound]

Unless you work for a family owned business, there is little doubt the company would downsize you (read: fire you!) in a second if it suited their needs. I know of one company that bucks this trend. Not good in our [i]entire[/i] country. (The company in question had it's facility burned to the ground and the owner [i]continued to pay full wages to his employees while the factory was rebuilt![/i] That's certainly the exception to the rule. If you wish to be considerate, give them 2 weeks notice when you leave. Or, better yet, if you have good reason to feel the new job is yours, give them a chance to make amends by bringing your salary up to your co-worker's amount, [i]then[/i] add something as a bonus for your good work. ;)

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b] Or, better yet, if you have good reason to feel the new job is yours, give them a chance to make amends by bringing your salary up to your co-worker's amount, [i]then[/i] add something as a bonus for your good work. ;) [/b][/quote]Without a doubt, the most intelligent piece of advice yet. One CAN be opportunistic WITHOUT being an asshole... [i]Screw them before they screw you, indeed...[/i] :freak:

[NYCDrew]

As a small business owner (IT consulting firm) and a manager, I understand your plight. Understand this: 1. Compensation is not based solely on job role. Seniority, martial status, sex, experience, people skills, personal hygeine & personality are all determinants for IF you get past the 2nd interview and into the job. These factors may also affect your salary. Whenever I speak to my employees, or other IT associates, it seems the perpetual gripe is that they are undercompensated, or their value is not fully recognized. Well, that's not the employer's job to make your your value is known. That's the responsibility of your own marketing dept :) 7 out of 10 times I hear your same exact cry (where a gal or guy thinks they're putting out 110%, but not getting "recognized"), and when I FORCE the person to take a closer view of the "big picture", or from the perspective of the employer, the metrics change. I have two employees that do the same exact jobs, with the same level of training and the same expertise, and I pay one 15% more. Neither are married, both are the same approx age etc etc. I happen to like one chap more than the other. You may say this is unfair etc, etc, but for ME, business is more than just about business...it's also about relationships. If I were in a bind, and I had to fire somebody, I'd keep the dude I "liked" more, all else being constant. and that's the truth. NYC Drew

[Anifa]

[quote] I have two employees that do the same exact jobs, with the same level of training and the same expertise, and I pay one 15% more. Neither are married, both are the same approx age etc etc. I happen to like one chap more than the other. You may say this is unfair etc, etc, but for ME, business is more than just about business...it's also about relationships. If I were in a bind, and I had to fire somebody, I'd keep the dude I "liked" more, all else being constant. [/quote]Okay, now you mention the level of training and expertise here; but you pay one 15% more because you "like" him. Does the preferred employee offer special favors for the additional compensation; the Good Ole Buddy, Ole Pal system? Does he golf with you, go out partying with you, chase women with you, provide sexual favor for you, or is he a committed employee that would bust his ass for you to see that the job is done effectively and timely without expectations of additional incentive bonuses? What are the levels of commitment, levels of productivity, and quality of performance? Seems to me that these factors should outweigh those determinants you mentioned that would affect one's salary. To me, having worked in management for a MAJOR corporation (on and off) for 18+ years; I don't HAVE to like someone to recognize a damn good employee when I see one; providing this person would not be placed in conflicting areas where people skills would be mandatory. I don't need a pretty face to look at if I have a geek that out performs my highest expectation. Levels of dedication and quality of performance play a huge factor in determining who I would keep on; given a need to downsize. Also attendance and preparedness for duty play important roles. I don't look for buddies on the job; I look for the most qualified candidate to get the job done and done well. [b]Huge[/b] I suggest that you take the training and not feel guilty about it. Corporations are allowed tax write-offs for providing education for their employees. They might be upset if you receive your training and then walk, but they will be able to recover their loss. It's a guilt trip that they are trying to lay on you because they know that you are unsettled in your current position. Had they been fair to you in the beginning, you would not have been seeking elsewhere. If the company does not have a stated clause that mandates a minimum length of employment AFTER having received the training programs, then you are free to go. Some corporations very vividly state in their applications for training that the employee will uphold a certain grade-point average and will maintain a work status with the corporation for a set amount of time after the completion of the training program. Be sure to look at this when opting for the training.

[BP3]

Consider the training as part of your pay, they do.

[Cymbals]

Telling the company to "give the training to someone who will stay" could get you fired before you quit on them. Bad move.

[ViLo]

If they need to let you go, they will not think about it! My former employer did it to me after 17 years with the company, after I was handling 2 jobs for them besides travleing and training other people without a pay raise, @ that time I loved to work for the company and did not care about them not giving me a raise, their reward??? LAY OFF! Take advantage of everything, with no remorse whatsoever!!!

[offramp]

Anifa-- You make a very valid point. However, I submit that, because you worked for a large corporation, there was a whole lot of checks and balances going on; a number of stupid people balanced out by a few good ones, and management could attribute the occasional screwup to it's size (I mean, look at Microsoft...). Anyway, NYCdrew is HIS OWN COMPANY. He's RIGHT THERE on the front lines, so yeah, I'd cut him a decent amount of slack because the person he likes a little better, he feels, represents him a little better. He has one capable person who could do the essentials of the job and come away clean. He has another person whom he feels (and I'm speculating here, Drew, feel free to take me to task) he could send in his stead if a schedule conflict were to come up and he needed representn'. nomesayin'? jes like Compton. yo. (ahem. sorry. back to my point...) I see an implied extra responsibility of presenting Drew as Drew wants to be presented, on the shoulders of this employee because a) Drew gets along with him/her very comfortably and b) he's so damn close to the action. So the extra 15% might be considered 'contingency pay' in case such a situation occured.

[Rim]

Back to Huge's situation: I would definitely check your company's policy on training. Many that I've worked for had some restrictions on employees when they take classes the company paid for. Most of the time, the company requires you to stay on the job a certain period of time after training ends (6 months or a year is not uncommon). If you leave before this period, they usually require you to refund the company some or all of the money spent on training. P.S. If your company doesn't have a policy I stated above, I say take the training. This is not screwing over your employer - they screwed themselves by not putting a policy in place to keep people from leaving after training!