for and against synths/workstations

[ikeaman]

hi everyone...im curious. i was having a discussion the other day about using synths i.e. prophet '08 /workstations i.e. triton...

 

VS

 

...just having a real or digital piano / rhodes for use in a typical working band (bars? / weddings?). i came up with a short list :

 

For :

 

1. Opens up a world of sounds

 

2. Don’t need to hire extra guys i.e. Brass, strings etc...

 

3. Easier to set u than a piano (in regards to mics / portability etc..)

 

Against :

 

1. How many different sounds do you really need in a typical rock / pop band?

 

2. Puts other people out of a job (point 2 above)

 

3. Doesn’t sound as good as the real thing? (i.e. Piano, brass, etc..)

 

anyone else have anything to add to that?

 

ive seen bands with just the basic bread and butter setup and sound great....ive also seen bands with the kitchen sink...and most of the time they sound hmmm s**t ha ha ha. mind you real pro acts who use everything almost always sound awesome.

 

another thing..do keyboard players really need more than one keyboard...two max? in this day and age..most modern keyboards can do everything. yes..im guilty for using more than two sometimes but a lot of it is just for show ..look at someone like jordan rudess. he uses mainly one...or maybe two.

 

 

i dont know... what do you think?

ikeaman

[MusicWorkz]

Nothing to add. It all depends on your gig and what the needs are. They all have a place and a role on stage.

 

As far as multiple boards on a set, everyone is different. There are three keyboards between two players in my band.

 

One plays piano/rhodes, I play everything else. I use two boards. Sure, I can get by using one with creative programming, by if i don't have to...?

 

And if we are headliners? Forget it-I might use 3 or even 4 boards. Why? Because I can.

[ProfD]

Considering a workstation covers everything, that is all a gigging musician would really need especially if they have to play brass, strings and sample parts too.

 

OTOH, if one doesn't need the sequencing and sometimes, sampling capabilities found on a workstation, a synth/DP (digital piano) combo will get the job done as well.

 

One KB will always suffice. Two provides a wider sonic palette and/or back up if someone spills a drink and/or otherwise breaks one.

 

Don't worry about putting the brass and string players out of work. There is barely enough room on stage for the KB player and their stuff i.e. (2) or more KBs, stereo monitoring system, lights, fog machine, etc.

 

Otherwise, I think most KB players could get away with ONE KB but a few provides more responsibility, er, flexibility.

[eric]

Is this a synth vs. workstation thread or an all keyboards vs. the real thing thread? Unclear.

 

I like to have a stable of great keyboard sounds and enough versatility to cover non-keyboard sounds (strings, flutes, harmonica, steel drums, things like that). I categorically refuse to replicate horn sections on my keyboard rig.

[Sven Golly]

Just to add, JR has one controller on-stage, which is controlling numerous racks off-stage (check his site for latest rig details).

 

Anyway, more to the point of multiple keyboards: I personally refuse to play organ on a piano-weighted action, and I strongly dislike playing piano on a synth action; also, I have yet to hear a ROMpler/Workstation/synth that nails the Hammond sound the way a clonewheel can... plus, I need drawbars. There's nothing in the workstation/synth world that gives me what I need/demand, nor do I expect it to (much like how I use a hammer to pound in nails, and a wrench to tighten bolts, and never the twain shall meet).

 

Therefore, I bring two appropriate tools to the job, when the gig calls for Hammond + piano/el.piano/whatever (which, these days, is 99.9% of the time; only my Celtic gigs see me with a single board on stage). Much like how the guitar player in the country band brings his mandolin along, rather than just capo'ing at the 18th fret and adding delay + chorus to his sound...

 

Oh, and to add: I absolutely concur with Eric, above, in that if a tune calls for brass section (i.e. real brass, not synth brass as in Van Halen ), those parts get played on the Hammond clone. I have my principles, after all.

 

[Chuckers]

synths VS just having a real or digital piano / rhodes

 

another thing..do keyboard players really need more than one keyboard...

 

Timely - I've been thinking about this lately.

 

While I suppose it can be nice to play the real thing, it's often so impractical (size & weight, maintenance, limited sound palette) that for me a good synth is the way to go (one with weighted/semi-weighted keys that includes piano/EP/organ sounds). No, it won't sound like the "real thing", but my yardstick is that a synth sounds decent to me, not that it be an exact duplicate of another instrument. And a synth can sound like a synth when you want it to, which I often require - and it's a bit hard to get a piano/EP to sound like a synth...

 

As for multiple keyboards - well, I tried playing with as many as two at many points, and I find it to be a massive pain in the a$$ (if I wanted to schlep lots of gear around, I would have played the drums... ). My holy grail is finding a single keyboard that can do everything I want it to - it might not be perfect in every area, but it will be good enough that I won't feel the need to assemble and cart around a truckload of keyboards and outboard gear. For me this is possible since I don't need a sampler, specialty external effects or other gadgets, and I find that well-thought-out splits and layers eliminate my need for multiple keybeds. I'm not a collector either - I've always replaced keyboards if I felt their capabilities were adequately represented in another board, with the goal of keeping it to one (and I certainly don't have enough room at home to collect!). However, I do sympathize with the idea that it can be hard to play solo/complex piano on a semi-weighted board, and similarly difficult to play organ on a fully-weighted keyboard.

 

Having said all that, as I get older I'm wanting to concentrate more on my playing than on gear - mostly because, and pardon me if this seems obvious, but it's the best way to sound better & to cover all your sylistic bases. I use the Eddie Van Halen analogy - he will still sound great/like Eddie on a $200 beginner guitar/amp combo; but I will still sound like crap on three expensive guitars and a stable of boutique amplifiers. (Insert equivalent Jordan Rudess analogy as necessary.)

 

Unfortunately, improving my playing involves PRACTICE, while buying gear simply involves opening up your wallet, which in the end doesn't require the same level of dedication.

 

 

[Tusker]

Oh, and to add: I absolutely concur with Eric, above, in that if a tune calls for brass section (i.e. real brass, not synth brass as in Van Halen ), those parts get played on the Hammond clone. I have my principles, after all.

 

Ditto.

 

I have been practicing my nose wrinkle of late. It's useful when someone suggests a cheesy sound "'Cause you are the keyboardist. You are willing to play any sound right? Why don't you play some brass or something right there?"

 

It's easier than trying to explain.

 

Jerry

[Synthoid]

Don't worry about putting the brass and string players out of work. There is barely enough room on stage for the KB player and their stuff i.e. (2) or more KBs, stereo monitoring system, lights, fog machine, etc.

 

+1

 

Not many weddings around here hire big bands anyway....just a few musicians onstage or a lone DJ (horrors).

 

[mikeNZ1]

You can have it all (almost). Keyboards like the Kurzweil PC1X and Roland 300SX or Yamaha M08 are digital stage pianos with a full synth sound engine, but no workstation features. Much more versatile than a digital piano.

 

Michael

[ikeaman]

hey everyone thanks for all your musings;) eric sorry i didnt make it too clear its basically synths/workstations vs yes the real thing..piano/rhodes/B3 even at a stretch something like a minimoog ( all these things do only one thing as opposed to do several ).

 

im the same...it depends on the gig. im lucky enough to have a few things to choose from and i kind of just take it from there. while id love to use the real thing..most of the audience (dare i say it ALL of the audience) dont really care. if they hear a song they know..the band is amazing...and theyre too drunk to care most of the time..

 

does having the right gear make me play better? i dont know really because if i end up playing a casio but with the right sounds, than everything is cool! if i play a kurz and im not quite there with the sounds..i dont play 100%..does that make any sense? other factors come to this as well like the feel of the keys and the PA..if it moves me, then i can really play and have fun.

 

after i posted the thread, i went and did a gig earlier tonite with the wedding band...it was for a school prom. ok so...young hip and drunk teens. so i took my keytar out and used that. the kids loved it (keytar) and the whole thing went well. i even got an offer to sell it for 400GBP! btw there was no room to set up my regular controller so im glad i had the keytar. its cheesy but the young ones think its really hip these days.

 

im happy with my sounds, got everything to cover all our tunes. to tell you the truth i only use a handful of sounds for a gig like this (keytar into a triton rack and receptor i have to say they sound great together). piano/brass/rhodes/clav/strings/lead synth and B4...sometimes layered and sometimes on their own. thats it..no fancy sweeps or anything. i know where some of you are coming from..id rather not play brass patches but the band leader is a bit of a padantic git. i also try to double the guitar player and help him with parts but i get crap for it...but im digressing. anyway yeah where was i ..i need to get with another wedding band ha ha ha.

 

id love to take another keyboard but whats the point for these kinds of gigs... as i said no one cares. in the very beginning i used 3 boards which was overkill but dammmit i felt good playing them. i just got tired of setting and packing up. heck even my setup tonite was probably a bit much...2 modules! i could prob do it with a decent sounding half rack sound module ok...im talking crap and its bedtime.

 

ikeaman