Live sound basics?

[mikeNZ1]

Yeah, that was my take on them too. I don't usually have the luxury of setup time and an empty room. Something that can work dynamically might do the trick. We rarely have feedback problems anyway, so it is not a big priority right now.

 

Had our second band practice with the new mixer and speakers so got it dialed in better this time. It was sounding sweet.

 

Michael

[suraci]

 

If you micing live drums, that's a book in itself.

 

Your response was brilliant, not merely good.

Thank you

[mate stubb]

Yeah, that was my take on them too. I don't usually have the luxury of setup time and an empty room. Something that can work dynamically might do the trick.

 

I believe Meyer sound invented a device that allows you to play music through it. It collects the room sound from a mic and compares it to the line level sound, determining the EQ and time delays imposed by the room, and applying countermeasures.

 

The advantage is that you can just play some music thru the PA after the room is already filled with people. The disadvantage is that the thing is incredibly expensive.

[xmlguy]

The only problem with RTAs is they are not practical in clubs. You have to blast the room with white noise to get a spectral analysis. Try this in a club, and you'll empty the place of patrons and be left with a very upset club owner. Don't even think about blasting white noise more than once...

An RTA is practical anywhere. You don't have to pink the room. Having a live spectrum display is useful by itself. There's software you can load on a laptop, if price is a problem. The DriveRack just makes things easier with its built-in calibrations. Think of it as a 28/31 band VU meter. And if the situation allows you to pink the room, you've got that in your bag of tricks as well. RTAs aren't weird science. I find it strange that anyone would think of using a 1/3 octave EQ without one. The Edirol M-10DX mixer even has an RTA built-in. You can also pink a room without anyone realizing what you're doing using a noise spectrum sweep - which can be camoflaged as a keyboard effect test. Just sounds like an ocean wave.

[mikeNZ1]

>>If you micing live drums, that's a book in itself.

 

Our drummer uses drum triggers and a dm5 drum module. We tried miking only the bass drum at various times, and it was a disaster. We actually got feedback through drum resonance at one venue (small stage with the kit in the corner) and in other tight venues the drum mic just picked up too much bass rumble, really messing up the overall sound. Not worth the effort IMO. If you have a large stage with little reflected sound and a ton of spare mic inputs go ahead, but my money is on the DM5 module any day.

 

Boy, you should hear the punch from his kick drum when he winds it up, and the toms just ring out loud and clear. It is also a lot less physical effort for the drummer - fewer shirt changes!

 

Michael

[suraci]

Your quote is below

with a Mac how much is software !

is it practical for me as a bass player

and a keyboard player??!!

 

Thanks

suraci

/////////

An RTA is practical anywhere. You don't have to pink the room. Having a live spectrum display is useful by itself. There's software you can load on a laptop, if price is a problem. The DriveRack just makes things easier with its built-in calibrations. Think of it as a 28/31 band VU meter. And if the situation allows you to pink the room, you've got that in your bag of tricks as well. RTAs aren't weird science. I find it strange that anyone would think of using a 1/3 octave EQ without one. The Edirol M-10DX mixer even has an RTA built-in. You can also pink a room without anyone realizing what you're doing using a noise spectrum sweep - which can be camoflaged as a keyboard effect test. Just sounds like an ocean wave.

[The Real MC]

Yup our drummer uses triggers and DM5 too.

 

Much easier this way.

[JeffLearman]

Yeah, that was my take on them too. I don't usually have the luxury of setup time and an empty room.

Yeah, and that's not what you want to do anyway. It's the full room that matters, not the empty one!

 

Of course, you can set up for the empty room, and if it fills up, it's pretty easy to empty it.

 

I find it strange that anyone would think of using a 1/3 octave EQ without one.

A good sound person, when hearing a feedback squeal, should be able to hit the right band by the 3rd try, almost every time, and frequently on the 1st try. But it sure is easier with the display!

[xmlguy]

Your quote is below

with a Mac how much is software !

is it practical for me as a bass player

and a keyboard player??!!

 

Thanks

suraci

There's a bunch of spectrum analyzers/RTA software available:

Mac Spectrum Analyzers

[xmlguy]

Besides pinking a room, it's useful to do a sine frequency sweep to find resonance, rattles, and buzzes of anything in the room that might cause a very unpleasant experience that could be difficult to find/fix during a gig. A parametric EQ used as a notch filter is better than a 1/3 octave EQ, particularly for 60Hz hum.

[mikeNZ1]

I have found one of the main rattles in one of our venues is the case of my keyboard! When the bass player hits a certain note loud enough it rattles. Being stuck in a corner doesn't help - another reason to use IEMs.

 

Michael

[The Real MC]

Besides pinking a room, it's useful to do a sine frequency sweep to find resonance, rattles, and buzzes of anything in the room that might cause a very unpleasant experience that could be difficult to find/fix during a gig.

 

No argument there.

 

A parametric EQ used as a notch filter is better than a 1/3 octave EQ, particularly for 60Hz hum.

 

But unless you have reeeeeeeeally good speaker cabinets, the parametric will NOT replace the 1/3 octave EQ.

[xmlguy]

A parametric EQ used as a notch filter is better than a 1/3 octave EQ, particularly for 60Hz hum.

 

But unless you have reeeeeeeeally good speaker cabinets, the parametric will NOT replace the 1/3 octave EQ.

Graphic and parametric EQs both deserve their slots in the rack. The problem is when someone uses the wrong EQ for the wrong job. The fixed Q on the 1/3 octave make it too wide for notching specific frequencies without skewing the nearby ones. A parametric EQ also adds less noise to the signal path, because all those opamps in a 1/3 octave EQ contribute noise. I prefer to leave the graphic EQs punched out if I can get away with it.

[xmlguy]

I have found one of the main rattles in one of our venues is the case of my keyboard! When the bass player hits a certain note loud enough it rattles. Being stuck in a corner doesn't help - another reason to use IEMs.

Double-sided foam sticky tape is my buzz silencer of choice.

[mikeNZ1]

I just used a screwdriver to tighten the loose screws! Then I asked the bass player to turn down, which was a complete waste of breath as usual.

 

Michael

[BP3]

 

But unless you have reeeeeeeeally good speaker cabinets, the parametric will NOT replace the 1/3 octave EQ.

I disagree with this remark. Using a parametric properly requires skill but if you have the chops, a good crossover and a good parametric should be all you need.