The influence of American Music around the globe: Discuss

[TShakazBlackRoots]

It has taken me a while, listening to American music, since 1975 to be exact . We grew up on the stuff and it has moulded our 'musical ear', even more than our own indigenous music

My folks came back from exile with tons of LPs; from Neil Diamond, to Carole King, Isaac Hayes, Sammy Davis Jr, Sam Cooke, Donna Summer, Classical music, Bossa Nova etc... The only thing missing if I recall, was Jazz (I gotta ask them why )

 

South African Township Jazz comes from American Jazz + Indigenous South African traditional rhythms and melodies. Fela Kuti's music came from Funk while lots of the current generation'smusic comes from American Hip Hop being fused with Reggae + local influences.

One may argue that 'it all came from Africa originally', a partly true statement.

Personally, I feel that of all the things America ever exported, nothing even comes close, to the influence of their music on my life .

 

So, we decided to give it a shot, by writing our own songs enfused with elements of Jazz and Funk, both traditionally American music genres.

You can visit www.cdbaby.com/blackroots4 and www.cdbaby.com/blackroots3 to hear some of the results from our being moulded by American music.

 

But I ask, much as we love and adopt American music, will Americans ever 'accept' our music or the music that we make that they influenced us to do in the first place?

One Love

[getz out]

Good question. America's great contribution to music is jazz, an American original. Too bad very few Americans care for it.

 

I think the mass-appeal to Americans has a lot to do with what they are fed by MTV and Clearchannel (two of the main ways Americans get their music). There is plenty of quality music available around the world (by quality I mean adequate for commercial consumption), but if it is not presented it will go nowhere. And things are generally presented that have the highest chance of commercial success. It has always been that way, but some may argue that in past times commercial success had more to do with quality than with image (not that I subscribe to this, but it is a popular notion).

 

There are always fans that will search out interesting stuff, but they are not the majority.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Good point Getz76 . The influence of MTV and others cannot be discounted, BUT, I and countless other Africans, got hooked to Funk, Blues, Soul, Jazz and Disco way before MTV

We had only one radio station to listen to, the government owned one, until only recently, in 1992 !

 

Therefore, the 'infection' came from our folks who owned ORIGINAL records (I don't think piracy existed then , I could be wrong). Before I forget, Country music is arguably the most popular American music genre in Africa! Yet it's not on MTV channels that we receive.

The French through their govt have done alot in organizing colloborations between their artists and African musicians.I went to the US embassy over here and asked if they had plans for Cultural exchange, they said it was scrapped ! I was livid! I wasn't even asking for financial assistance as I could fund this project, partly atleast.

 

Anyway, I guess slowly by slowly, through mediums like this forum, we can expose what we have learnt from American musicians over the years. Hopefully, we the 'influenced'will be 'accepted' by the Americans

[getz out]

I was talking about American listeners. And I agreed, to a certain degree.

 

When I was (more) impressionable regarding music, there was more diverse distribution of music. These days, there are very few. There will alway be folks that see out new music (like people on this forum).

 

Cultural exchange and the US government is less likely to provide an avenue to a project. Private organizations in the U.S. do better with this. Finding an organization can be tough sometimes. I live in a big, wealthy country. There are plenty of very generous people, and some may find your vision worth patronizing. Or, you could find interested parties in these forums.

 

My local jazz station WBGO Newark is member funded and I support it. I barely listen lately, but I am glad it is there. It would never, ever survive as a commercial station.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Too true, you have made some interesting points that I will surely consider

Supporting that radio station is a noble cause, as it may fail to get 'mainstream' funding. I firmly believe that it's stations like these that will keep this kind of music alive. In the UK, pirate stations did so much for Reggae, Funky Jazz (Soul II Soul etc,) and Drum & Bass music In fact, they brought it to the mainstream.

Let me check out the link to your radio station. In fact, I am going to see how I too can contribute to it financially

The weblink is a bit slow over here but I'll get it done

One Love

[slap-pop-karl]

Why is everything american mixed up?

[getz out]

Why is everything american mixed up?

 

What?

[slap-pop-karl]

Why is everything American mixed up?

 

What?

Like well anything American is mixed up from other cultures. Food, accent, the way you guys look, the architecture. All that kinda stuff.

[jeremy c]

American music seems to be ubiquitous around the world.

 

IMHO, I believe it is ruining all the wonderful music of many cultures. Kids are abandoning the traditional music of their homelands and listening to rap and metal.

 

On the other hand, the music of other cultures is fertilizing American music and helping it keep from stagnating. Unfortunately the music which is benefiting from non-American influences is never played on American radio.

 

We are fortunate in this century to be able to hear recorded music from almost anywhere and almost any time frame in the last 100 years. Those of us who do not seek out and listen to at least some of the music available are culturally deprived.

[Rocky McDougall]

Why is everything american mixed up?

 

Karl, one of the most wonderful things about America is that it is "All Mixed Up" Americans are comprised of people from all over the world. They brought with them their culture , their music and attitudes. Most of them knew what they did not like about their country and were dedicated to not let those things reoccur in this country. I am scottish as are you. My family came here over 200 years ago. I am very thankful for that.

Rocky

[jeremy c]

The whole world is getting "mixed up".

Just think about all of us on this forum from various parts of various countries, representing a variety of religions, cultures and ethnic groups (sometimes all of those are mixed in one person, and of various ages and levels of experience meeting and discussing a range of bass-related subjects.

 

We now live in a global village.

 

That's a good thing.

[Phil W]

It's fascinating to hear how everyone is influenced around the globe. African music influenced the development of rock, jazz, blues and Afro-Cuban music and modern African music wouldn't at all be the same without the influence of African and Caribbean music.

 

Playing in a UK based African band that was essentially Ghanaian, I soon realised that, while the roots go deep, the band were as likely to play music influenced by rumba, reggae, soca, township, soukous, funk or blues as highlife or any other Ghanaian groove.

 

I think the cross-fertilisation has created some great music and creative expression. The danger lies, of course, in the consumerist, mass-market nature of modern music. At the same time, the internet and other new technologies are allowing musics to exploit niche markets that may be a tiny percentage, but which are large markets.

 

 

[Nicklab]

Why is everything american mixed up?

 

America is a nation of immigrants. So you've got a very diverse culture that draws on the collective backgrounds of it's people. We're mutts, for lack of a better word. We come from a wide array of mother countries, and that makes for a very mixed population.

 

As for the original question? I think that American music has been incredibly influential on music around the world. And I think we certainly have to recognise the African influence that contributed to American music. Blues and Jazz have been tremendous cultural exports.

 

Blues might not seem outwardly remarkable on the surface, but when you look at what came from the Blues you find a myriad of styles. R&B, rock and roll, funk, soul and hip-hop are all derivations of the Blues. The Blues has been filtered through different people and regions to give us the music of today. Chuck Berry & Elvis were children of the Blues, and gave us rock and roll. And many of the same artists wound up having a profound influence on British rock music. Just listen to early Rolling Stones material and you'll hear the ties to people like Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters and company.

 

Jazz is considered one of the only true American art forms. And Getz is right...it's tragic that most Americans don't recognise the artistic beacon of their country that is Jazz.

 

As for the overriding cultural influence globally? I think that much of American culture has been pervasive globally. It's been said on many occassions that one of the top American exports is entertainment. Hence the backlash against bootleg movies in China from the US film industry, since intellectual properties are such big business. The simple fact is that Hollywood has managed to sell itself very well internationally. And I think the music industry has done the same thing, but perhaps to a lesser extnet. I thing that it's probably a side effect of the United States having too much money at it's disposal.

[Rocky McDougall]

Of the countries around the world that have oppressive rulers, their greatest fear is that the people will be influenced by American culture. Blue jeans and T shirts are dangerous. Music is the most dangerous.

Rocky

[Tom Capasso]

Karl - I hear about PhilW playing middle eastern music with a Japanese violinist, and eating Thai food, and jamming with a Portuguese bassist. I am also aware of may people in Britain who have come from other places (including former colonies) like India, Pakistan, and the West Indies. Sounds diverse to me.

 

Tom

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Ok, never having been to America, I wonder how "American" rock and roll really is these days.

 

I mean, it just IS, it's an abstraction and people play it in various forms, but I'm not sure how "American" it is perceived to be outside the US. I've met people who are deeply aware of the connection... and just as many who aren't. If anything, the vision of America that people seem to associate with rock is very old school rocker all tailfins and route 66 and that, which may or may not correspond to whatever "America" is these days.

 

I mean, the Stones were obviously very aware of America's role as the source of rock and roll, the Beatles, all them were aware of it. But there's been several generations of bands since, each of them inspiring other bands, all across the world. And many bands in America itself go after a non-American sound too, usually British. There's been a lot of cross-pollination these past fifty years.

 

I just don't know how American rock still is.

[DavidMPires]

America is one of the worlds youngest countries and that is reflected on their comportaments, we are starting to see that globalization in europe as well...London alone receives 28million tourists per year many stay here forever.

This is reflected in music..like Tom mention my portuguese roots are reflected on my bass playing, likewise tshaka puts all his influence in music even if he is playing a 4/4 rock music.

 

It's a good thing to be able to listen to all music in the world without having to travel...

[butcherNburn]

Jazz, no one can argue that. But lets talk rock.

 

The "British Invasion" of the mid 60's, as we call it in the states, was largely influenced by American blues. The British Invasion inspired many young people to make music of their own and some rediscover the blues. Now, the blues too was influenced by country, not to mention African rhythms. After all the "Bo Diddley beat" was his take on Roy Rogers "I've got spurs that jingle-jangle-jingle". This music and all its sub-genres have circled the world a few dozen times.

 

Unfortunately promotion and marketing have ruined the American music scene with its efficiency. It seems quite rare that anything of any unique substantial substance makes it through the "popular" assembly line. Thankfully the system does allow access to more music, including some old hidden gems that you would never find digging through the old used vinyl bin.

 

I wish I could remember who had said it, probably more than a few, but when I heard (or read) that you should find music and artists that you like and inspire you, then research who had done the same for them, and check them out. That was the best musical advice I ever heard and it has inspired me buy a lot of music and eventually pick up an instrument. I'm thinking now that that could have been the best marketing scheme ever (damn you!).

 

[jeremy c]

I wish I could remember who had said it, probably more than a few, but when I heard (or read) that you should find music and artists that you like and inspire you, then research who had done the same for them, and check them out. That was the best musical advice I ever heard and it has inspired me buy a lot of music and eventually pick up an instrument. I'm thinking now that that could have been the best marketing scheme ever (damn you!).

 

That was me who said that. Thanks to the Rolling Stones, I got introduced to the music of Robert Johnson.

[Sanvean]

I found Howlin' Wolf thru the Stones, god I love his song Commit a Crime.

[saxofunk]

Sorry to butt in without consuming every word of the thread so far, but I'll add a couple points:

 

We are losing our own local cultures and music very quickly. The majority of Americans have never heard unadulterated music from indigenous peoples, the Ozark region, Appalachia, or many of the endless subcultures that existed before Top 40 radio.

 

American blues music became popular when the Rolling Stones (and other European bands comprised of white males) re-interpreted songs that American radio would not play. If my father heard of Howlin' Wolf before 1965 it was because he stayed up late listening to AM channels that played "race music" after hours.

 

Finally (really, I am at work); the common perceptions of modern jazz go two ways: It is intellectual and hard to listen to. Or, it is pseudo-funky elevator music versions of Top 40 music.

 

[TShakazBlackRoots]

I am so impressed by this discussion, though I don't know when, how or why it descended into 'what's American and what isn't'.

Now, I am as Pan Africanist as one can get , but I just cannot deny or not compliment the positives of what American music has done worldwide. The politics of who started what aside, Blues, Funk and Jazz are art forms that brought/bring joy to this sad planet of ours

 

My original issue was that, since imitation is the best form of flattery or compliment, shouldn't Americans welcome, with open arms, all those who have been influenced by their art forms?

Colloborations, joint events etc. should be the order of the day

For instance, our folk guitar music called 'Kadongo Kamu' (literally means one man and his guitar) or the music of the Griots in West Africa is so close to the Delta Blues, it's untrue !

A colloboration of American Blues musicians + Country musicians with our musicians would be a joy to behold

[getz out]

It still comes down to distribution, TShakaz. Most likely the public would consume what they are fed, but we are talking business... most of the distribution is going to be for sure-fire hits, not experiments. It is unfortunate.

 

I do not think the public is the main problem; music has always been spoon-fed to the majority of people. Nothing new there.

[jeremy c]

For instance, our folk guitar music called 'Kadongo Kamu' (literally means one man and his guitar) or the music of the Griots in West Africa is so close to the Delta Blues, it's untrue !

A colloboration of American Blues musicians + Country musicians with our musicians would be a joy to behold

 

Have you heard Talking Timbuktu by Ry Cooder and Ali Farka Toure? Or Mali to Memphis?

 

I think that's what you're looking for.

 

I find it fascinating that many African bands are now playing Afro-Cuban music and Reggae. Styles which grew up in the Americas based on various cross-pollinizations of African, Native Music of various islands and US music have now moved back to Africa where they are reinterpreted.

 

Here in the US I have been fortunate to be able to play with Israeli, Iranian, Egyptian, Palestinian, and Iraqi musicians...and there are some songs that all of us know in common.

 

I am not overly concerned with what the "masses" listen to. I am part of what is called the long tail.

[Chad Thorne]

I am so impressed by this discussion, though I don't know when, how or why it descended into 'what's American and what isn't'.

Now, I am as Pan Africanist as one can get , but I just cannot deny or not compliment the positives of what American music has done worldwide. The politics of who started what aside, Blues, Funk and Jazz are art forms that brought/bring joy to this sad planet of ours

 

My original issue was that, since imitation is the best form of flattery or compliment, shouldn't Americans welcome, with open arms, all those who have been influenced by their art forms? ...

 

And many do, Tshaka, when they're exposed to it. The problem is that the major channels of music distribution in the U.S. are risk-averse; they'd rather keep pumping out either the same old same old, or updated versions thereof, that they know they can sell, rather than put money behind an artist or a genre that has no track record.

 

Case in point: Just yesterday, on my public radio station, was the first time I ever heard about zouk, or the band Kassav. Now, I'm a musician with, as you know, some interest in world musics. If I never heard of zouk before, regular ol' Joe Music Listener is certainly not going to hear it on his classic rock or country station. That's not to say that he wouldn't like, say, your unique flavor of Ugandan reggae if he heard it; he very well might. He just has precious few opportunities to hear it. It has to be sought out, and that may not be a priority for people who aren't musicians or music aficionados.

[Phil W]

 

Have you heard Talking Timbuktu by Ry Cooder and Ali Farka Toure? Or Mali to Memphis

 

You beat me to it, Jeremy.

 

My wife's an American (not a musician) and a fan of a range of world music since before we met so there are always ways for an active mind to find interesting music.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

 

Have you heard Talking Timbuktu by Ry Cooder and Ali Farka Toure? Or Mali to Memphis

 

You beat me to it, Jeremy.

 

My wife's an American (not a musician) and a fan of a range of world music since before we met so there are always ways for an active mind to find interesting music.

 

Am I the only person that finds the term "world music" to be intensely putrid?

 

I mean, the people that supposedly play "world music" are really playing their own folk music which comes from traditions that go back generations, if not centuries. Those guys in Malawi or Sri Lanka or wherever are not playing "world music" they're playing what comes naturally to them. I'd be willing to bet money that they're not thinking in terms of "world music" at all.

 

To lump music from Africa, Asia and wherever else as "world music" is to dismiss it as some sort of uniform, blanket thing, whereas it's not "uniform" at all and to dump it together in a heap labelled "world music" is to ignore the very powerful reasons why music from other countries sounds the way it does. It's an absurd generalization which doesn't do the music any justice. It's only "world music" when you're lookign at it from the outside.

 

I've gone from being a fan of the Putumayo catalog to being quite contemptuous of it. Yep, contemptuous, because Putumayo is a cross between a cribsheet and the McDonald's version of whatever music they're compiling. I say McDonald's because it's like when McDonalds goes "Mexican" and they give you the same crap as always but with a little thimble of sauce that's meant to turn McDonalds into a fair example of Mexican cuisine. Putumayo is usually "Buddha Bar" restaurant music stuff with some "exotic" touches thrown in so you can "tell" it's foreign.

 

And funnily ebough, they Do cherrypick a lot of stuff. There's an Italian CD of Putumayo's where none of the people on it are actually on Italian radio. Same with their "Mediterranean Lounge" compilation. Guess what? Nobody plays that stuff, there's no such animal outside some guy's studio. So what's with this "world music" that the world doesn't actually listen to?

 

Anyway, rant over...

 

Not knocking your wife's taste Phil, just the term, which has always seemed stupid to me.

[DavidMPires]

I think people use the term to indentify what's not mainstream...

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

What's not mainstream in which sense? And why, if Europe's part of the world, is classical not considered "world music"?

[kenfxj]

Ok, never having been to America, I wonder how "American" rock and roll really is these days.

I am of the opinion that "American" rock and roll ended in 1964. Since then (with the possible exception of "Southern Rock" which I would call hard country more than rock) American and British rock have been inextricably linked. Not a strictly British influence on American music, but more of a back and forth exchange of ideas.

 

There's been a lot of cross-pollination these past fifty years.

Yes.

 

I just don't know how American rock still is.

Perhaps in it's roots only. Rock and roll is world wide.