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Tube Amp??


Xplorer

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Not counting my Valve JR, I've never owned a tube amp. I'd really like to get one but I'm not sure where to start. I want something for metal, but when I talk to people around here about metal they think of Scorpions or Judas Priest. I'm not looking for AC/DC heavy, I'm looking for Killswitch Engage heavy. KSE use a Bogner Uberschall and a Mesa Triple rect for there tone. The Gain is rolled back on the Triple Rect and a Tube Screamer is tossed in front to keep it sizzling, but not noisy.

 

Does anyone out there know of tube amps geared toward todays metal players? I'm not a fan of the Marshall JCM800 at all. I don't think it sounds heavy enough. I'm not allowed to buy Peavy (don't ask), so the 5150 and 6505 are out of the picture.

 

Someone out there must have an affordable product for me to toss my money at. I can't really justify buying a Bogner Uberschall or Mesa Triple Rect, but it looks like they are my only option.

 

I'd prefer a combo so a Mesa Dual Rect Roadster would probubly be the ultimate, but I've never played a Mesa. Is there a super high gain monster combo amp out there that I just don't know about? Has anyone heard the Line6 Spyder Valve amps that were designed with Bogner?

 

I tried a couple of Traynors out (just to learn about tube amps) and I found the main thing I must avoid. It sounds ok at room volume, but farts out big time when the volume is cranked using their recommended 'Metal' settings.

 

I hope some of you tube guys can offer me some advice or maybe a product line or two to check out. I'd really appreciate some help! I'm only looking to spend between $800-$1200.

 

...should I just get a modeler (like the new POD X3 floor unit) becuase I'm not that in tune with the subtlties of a tube amp anyway?

 

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Yeah, I have never found anything that compares with a real tube amp.

 

I'm afraid I can't offer much help as to which one is the most appropriate for your style, but I can certainly recommend a tube amp over a tube amp sim. There are apt to be several that were designed specifically for metal (the one that Trucks recommended being one of them) and I would strongly suggest trying out several of them. I think you will be much happier in the end.

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I can't really justify buying a Bogner Uberschall or Mesa Triple Rect, but it looks like they are my only option.

 

You do realize that a mesa triple rectifier is just a 3-channel version, yes? If you want that high-gain distortion, but don't want to drop the dosh for a triple, then get a double - or get a single and use something else for your clean channel duty.

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check out these companies: Krank, Splawn

 

Also, maybe Carvin's V3 (then again, maybe not)

 

Koch Powertone II

 

Most classic death metal bands used JCM800's pushed by boosters/overdrives

 

some newer bands like Children of Bodom use the Mesa Boogie Mark IV

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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I can't really justify buying a Bogner Uberschall or Mesa Triple Rect, but it looks like they are my only option.

 

You do realize that a mesa triple rectifier is just a 3-channel version, yes? If you want that high-gain distortion, but don't want to drop the dosh for a triple, then get a double - or get a single and use something else for your clean channel duty.

 

Genius reply! Thanks Griff, I was so not aware of that! I thought it had something to do with gain stages. I happen to have a beautiful sounding JC-120H stereo chorus head that I can switch to for a clean channel. Does the single recifier have the same "modern" mode as the dual and triple? I'm not looking for a mult use amp. All I want is glorious high-gain thunder.

 

Chug chug chug!!!

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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check out these companies: Krank, Splawn

 

Also, maybe Carvin's V3 (then again, maybe not)

 

Koch Powertone II

 

Most classic death metal bands used JCM800's pushed by boosters/overdrives

 

some newer bands like Children of Bodom use the Mesa Boogie Mark IV

 

I knda want to be able to plug straight into the amp and get the tone I'm looking for. I have about 8 different dist/od/screamer type pedals. I'd like an amp that I only need maybe an EQ or even a Sonic Maximizer to get a rippin tone out of.

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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check out these companies: Krank, Splawn

 

Also, maybe Carvin's V3 (then again, maybe not)

 

Koch Powertone II

 

Most classic death metal bands used JCM800's pushed by boosters/overdrives

 

some newer bands like Children of Bodom use the Mesa Boogie Mark IV

 

I knda want to be able to plug straight into the amp and get the tone I'm looking for. I have about 8 different dist/od/screamer type pedals. I'd like an amp that I only need maybe an EQ or even a Sonic Maximizer to get a rippin tone out of.

The only one of those I think you would need OD for is the JCM800...

 

Remember, Dimebag used a Krank amp during his last days...

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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Thanks for the input guys, but I think my problem is that I already know the answer.

 

If I want a pro tube metal tone I'm going to need to shell out for pro quality gear.

 

JCM800 and Tube Screamer, or Ratt, or other OD will give me a nice 80-90's thrash tone. But I feel I can get scooped thrash tone out of my Metal Zone/GE-7/Roland Jazz setup that suits me fine for that style. It's a different flavour, but it's not the sound I'm after.

 

A DSL sounds good, but I know those things are problematic with their construction, and again offer more features than I need.

 

I'd like to try out a Mesa single rectifier. Do they have a combo or roadster? I'll look into that.

 

I think I'll probubly end up getting a POD XT (back to square one) or maybe trial the Spyder Valve 212. I know that the Spyder has pretty crappy effects and, at the end of the day the tubes in it are to create a more convincing blues dirty or clean tube tone. They can't possibly be adding that much gain. There is probubly still some solidstate gain stages to get the Insane, Metal, Face Melter, or whatever high gain models Line 6 puts in their Spyder amps. The POD on the other hand can do a JCM900, Mesa/Boogie, Bogner, convincing enough that a solidstate guy like me couldn't tell the difference anyway.

 

I'm thinking a Crate Power Block, POD XT Live, and a tasty new cabinet will probubly be good enough for a hack like me.

 

(Until someone makes an amp to suit my app)

 

Hey Green Onion. Can I have one of each please? LOL.

Seriously, I should sell all my gear to Trucks and buy a Bogner Uberschall.

 

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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So I take it the Laney is not man enough for ya, huh? 5 gain stages, dude, 5 of em... :D :D

 

I'm digging into that one.. I really don't know much about Laney at all. Only 5 gain stages eh? Hmm... well... ahh...

 

Do they make anything with spikes on it?

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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So I take it the Laney is not man enough for ya, huh? 5 gain stages, dude, 5 of em... :D :D

 

I'm digging into that one.. I really don't know much about Laney at all. Only 5 gain stages eh? Hmm... well... ahh...

 

Do they make anything with spikes on it?

 

Well spikes would make it sound more metal! But hey.. You could always knock something up! :D

 

A friend of mine had a Crate amp and full stack a few years back. He was happy with the metal tone, but says it did need a boost to get it where he wanted..

 

I have heard about reliability issues with the Crate Power Block's.

 

I would defo check out a Spyder Valve jobby...

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I have astigmatism so I'm going to need to see the right one... but yea, that my going rate for used gear. (I've gotten less)

 

Gifthorse says the Spyder Valve rocks socks off.

 

How on earth can I test or hear a Lanley in action?

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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There is a short clip on the link I posted. Down the screen a bit "What does it sound like?". That clip sounds a little too much low end for me (well for what I think a metal tone should sound like, although im no expert), but with the link it shows you the amp settings also, and the Treb was down below 5 if I remember rightly..

 

I know Iommi and Black Sabbath may have a bit of an old school sound than what you are after, but I reckon it should give a nice NU metal.. death metal.. that sort of thing.. sound too.

 

I had a very quick blast on a used one in a music store and it was very thrashy, no matter how I set it LOL :-)

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Millo, have you played a Krank? I liked Dime's tone better pre-warhead days.

Just to clarify, although you might know this already: Warhead is Randall, not Krank, and all those early Pantera tones were Solid State Randall heads w/ gain on 10, w/ noise gates.

 

Never tried a Krank but everyone seems to love them. As part of my "gifts to self" these holidays I plan to go around music stores (after the 25th) to try out Fuchs, THD's, Kranks, 65, Riveras, Dr. Z, Orange amps just for the heck of it.... and if there's an Alessandro anywhere, why not? And of course, let the salespeople I'm just doing it for the heck of it--I hate wasting people's time just like I hate it when salespeople or students/clients want to waste my time.

 

Go to the Krank website and check it out, apparently the head they built for Dimebag (RIP) is very quiet, yet melts your face off w/ its rippin' metal tones. Sorry, I had to include one of those cliché salespitches, hahaha. I'd love to check it out myself, although my metal days are WAAAYYY OVER.

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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Although I was always of the "if it's good enough for Dime" camp, when he started using the Warhead I thought, why??

 

I used to use a Boss parametric EQ with my Roland rig and it worked like a charm for dialing the Pantera tone. I'm under the impression that Randall just slaped the parametric eq in a head for him so he wouldn't have to tote the Furman around. (Kinda like Marshall just did for Kerry King with his new 2203KK sig head by adding a preset eq curve and gate).

 

The Randall tone was real cool IMO, but I'm sure I can achieve it w/o a Warhead.

 

As for Krank, well... I haven't really heard anything at all about them. Just reviews from kids who wouldn't say it sucked even if it did! Anytime I've hear one it's sounded kinda too thick and muddy. Again, I've never plugged in or heard one through a cab with my own ears, only on recordings.

 

I think Dimes tastes and mine had branched in different directions.

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Well Gas got the best of me and I orderd a Spider Valve after talking with gifthorse.. It sould be here tommorrow so I will give you an update on that......Damn, I was trying to keep this quite and I can't even do that....... Time for another meeting Doc.

What can this strange device be?

When I touch it, it gives forth a sound

It's got wires that vibrate, and give music

What can this thing be that I found?

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I've heard people throw compliments on the VHT Deliverance amp, and I'm pretty sure it has plenty of gain:

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/VHT-Deliverance-60-Guitar-Head-Amp?sku=484031

 

And it's got a pair of KT88's, which is a very powerful tube.

 

 

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

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As for DD and the noise-gate, didn't he use that to get super-staccato chunk-knk-knk, stop-on-a-dime (no pun intended) and hairpin-turn chord-changes and palm-muted rhythm-chops? The 'gate would be set to chop closed fiercely and immediately on the end of notes and chords. The noise-gate became a big part of his sound that way, it wasn't just for hiding hiss and hum. I don't think it did anything remotely similar to what an EQ of any kind would do, and vice-verse...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

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As for DD and the noise-gate, didn't he use that to get super-staccato chunk-knk-knk, stop-on-a-dime (no pun intended) and hairpin-turn chord-changes and palm-muted rhythm-chops? The 'gate would be set to chop closed fiercely and immediately on the end of notes and chords. The noise-gate became a big part of his sound that way, it wasn't just for hiding hiss and hum. I don't think it did anything remotely similar to what an EQ of any kind would do, and vice-verse...
huh? wasn't trying to imply it was used for EQ.

 

Yup, it was a huge part of their staccato, tight sound, and obviously to control the noise that ridiculous amounts of preamp distortion at ridiculous volume would create.

 

And yup, Gifthorse and many others will tell you VHT's are great.

 

Personally I think my next amp is going to be a Line 6 something-valve, and I hope it'll give me all sorts of flavors, metal included.

"Without music, life would be a mistake."

--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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