Vai: P.I.L, Alcatrazz

[D. Fox]

 

Anybody here ever dig into Vai's playing on P.I.L.'s "Album" (or "Cassette" or "Compact Disc" depending on what you bought) or Alcatrazz's "Disturbing the Peace?" I'll admit to having a major soft spot for them as they were two of my favorites during my formative years as a player, but I still think Vai absolutely KILLS on these suckers.

 

I know Vai himself doesn't hold them in the highest regard.....he started slagging the Alctrazz album almost the second it was released!

 

Thoughts?

[Michael Patrick]

I thought Vai said (in a GP interview if I'm not mistaken...) that the solo on "Ease" on Album was one of his favorites?

 

I still love that album, lots of great guitar work, and great drumming by Ginger Baker...

[Billster]

The P.i.L. stuff is a really under the radar item. I don't know how to describe that music, but it really is interesting. Lydon's voice is definitely an acquired taste. Bill Laswell put together that cast of characters. Wikipedia

 

The Alcatrazz is another thing altogether. I definitely think that episode (for Vai) was a means to an end, because he had left Zappa, and needed to get a foot in the door of the rock world.

 

 

[Greg B.]

I've never really heard much of the Vai-period Alcatrazz, but I always did like his "Flex-able" record. Some of it is kind of odd, but considering his Zappa background, maybe not quite so odd.

[Trucks]

I've not really checked out the post pistols Lydon stuff. I had not heard of PiL since recently, and I didn't realise vai was even involved!

[D. Fox]

I've not really checked out the post pistols Lydon stuff. I had not heard of PiL since recently, and I didn't realise vai was even involved!

 

Vai was only on that one record, which is NOTHING like P.I.L.'s first two albums which are utterly brilliant, but for much different reasons. To say that Keith Levene is the polar opposite of Vai as a guitarist is an understatement to say the least!

 

In fact, Levene's playing has become hugely influential on a new generation of players/bands. Bloc Party and Franz Ferdinand to name just two.

[Gifthorse]

I watched a live video of Vai on Youtube when he was in Alcatrazz. Personally it appeared as though his technique really hadn't blossomed yet.

 

I mean I saw him repeating the same pull off lick over and over. His picking technique was kind of sloppy. I am comparing this to what he became say in Dave Lee Roth several years later which was far more impressive on every level.

 

DOn't get me wrong, I am not ripping on him but that was like 20+ years ago.

[Michael Patrick]

To say that Keith Levene is the polar opposite of Vai as a guitarist is an understatement to say the least!

 

Whoa, you ain't kidding...

 

I saw Via a few times with Zappa. I remember one time we were sitting in the first row of the balcony, looking down right over the band (it was a small theater, so we were real close). I didn't know who to watch, Vai or Vinnie Colaiuta, who is a monster drummer. I remember looking down watching Vinnie playing, and I realized he was playing in different time signatures with the right and left sides of his body...

[VeloDoug]

I watched a live video of Vai on Youtube when he was in Alcatrazz. Personally it appeared as though his technique really hadn't blossomed yet.

 

I mean I saw him repeating the same pull off lick over and over. His picking technique was kind of sloppy. I am comparing this to what he became say in Dave Lee Roth several years later which was far more impressive on every level.

 

DOn't get me wrong, I am not ripping on him but that was like 20+ years ago.

 

Don't forget, he was brought in as one of the only guitarists that could pull off Yngwie's songs in Alcatrazz. While he may not have reached the epitome of his art yet, I think it had more to do with him trying to bridge a vast style gap from his style to Yngwie's neo-classical style.

 

I'd love it if you posted the Youtube link, but I've seen Vai a few times... he is a showman and knows that sometimes raising your eyebrow at the right time will have more impact on an audience than making sure you alternate pick a passage instead of just doing hammer ons. I wouldn't be surprised if this penchant for forgetting technique to put on a good show may have impacted your impression. Then again, Vai has been know to have off nights that balance out the nights that he just slayed.

 

Personally, I'd love to hear the P.I.L album again. It was stolen (along with another 500 CD's) by British customs back in '98. I haven't heard it since. My taste has broadened a great deal since then, but (if memory serves) I thought it odd to have the 'anti-musician' (Lydon) surrounding himself with all this talent... it didn't make much sense to me.

[Gifthorse]

I bet you can find it on Youtube if you look.

 

I think he probably was one of the only rock players who could handle that kind of playing at that time. He just didn't have the lick repetoire that he gained.

 

He seemed to repeat the same fast lick over and over. I agree he is a great performer. I am not saying he hasn't become a total badass on tons of levels. I am just saying he doesn't look as evolved on these YouTube videos I watched as he was like 3 years later when he got the Roth gig (I think it was 3 years)

 

Keep in mind, he probably was practicing TONS to improve.

 

Not that he was a slouch at all technically. But if you want to get all 'picky'..

 

[Billster]

Vai played with Zappa up until about '84, then he did his Flex-able record (of which I have an original first run pressing). I remember some interviews from the time that Zappa told him his tone needed to improve. I think between Alcatrazz and Roth is when he got his tone together. Some of his solo stuff still has weird tones to me though.

 

Vai is a really smart guy in the way he has managed his career IMO. He kept his composer rights, and was smart about the money he got paid with Roth and Whitesnake - instead of snorting it up his nose - and it lets him finance whatever he wants to do musically now.