bc002k Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I have a bit of a dilemma. I ordered an Ion from Guitar Center almost 2 months ago, not realizing it was on back order. Sweetwater says it'll be Autumn of 2007, other sites pulled it completely. So I decided to go for a Micron instead, since it apparently has the same sound engine and capabilities (just less keys and interface). Though apparently, the sales person at Guitar Center claims he spoke to Alesis and they said it was going to come in Mid-May (this coming week). And they were out of Microns too - otherwise I probably would've walked home with one of those yesterday. Saving $200 on the Micron isn't really an issue. If the Ion does come in next week, I'm leaning towards that since I've waited so long for it anyway. But I'm also a complete beginner at synthesis (I've played piano for 4 years, so I'm somewhat proficient at that..no knowledge of synthesizers though). Is the Ion easier to use since it has the larger interface? Or is the Micron just as easy, since I don't really know (yet) what any of those knobs do anyway? And I've read some reviews saying the Micron actually sounds better..and it has a sequencer (which I'm also not too familiar with). If the Ion really is delayed to Autumn 07, this is all a moot point since I'm just gonna say screw it and buy the Micron. But if my Ion does come in next week, I need to decide. Above all, I'm sick of waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 The Ion will be significantly easier (for sound creation) for a complete synthesis neophyte; layers of menus (on the Micron) merely complicate the simplicity of analog synthesis (which is what the Ion and Micron both emulate). The Micron adds some extra features which are nice; if you're merely looking at learning how subtractive synthesis works in a hands-on fashion, you might want to look at the Roland SH-201. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Another vote for the Ion. You can always get a good used one.....try eBay. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeNZ Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Have you looked at the Novation XioSynth? $449 street price, 49 keys, and more controls then you will now what to do with (at least on the first night!) Overall, it has a more powerful synthesis engine, and is also a USB audio interface. Runs off batteries too. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 The Micron has a voice editor, if you don't mind using the computer. It was provided by the user community. The Micron sounds a lot better than the Ion as it has much better effects and also has some additional features. Of course the Ion hardware interface is quite nice and intuitive, but it also has limitations in terms of the knobs being difficult to fine-tune, and no aftertouch for the keyboard (I find both the Ion and Micron sound MUCH better triggered from another keyboard). So factor that into cost and bang for buck. I might sell my Micron, but have been waiting for the Korg R3 to finally be released first. I think it's been delayed yet again. The Korg R3 might be worth considering as well, as it has an excellent computer-based voice editor, and its menu system and direct interface will be way more intuitive and convenient than the Micron's (but not than the Ion's). Not sure about aftertouch. It is essentially a scaled down version of the RADIAS, voice-wise and timbre-wise, but has MOST of the other features on a 1:1 mapping, so is more or less voice-compatible (as well as being 95% or more voice compatible with the MS2000 and MicroKorg series). Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 eBay seems to be the only place to score an Ion these days, over here (in Singapore), the only Alesis distributor told me the Ion has been discontinued True? Not true...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 They told me at Winter NAMM that it wasn't discontinued, but that they were having trouble getting some of the parts and so there was a production lull. Was this the truth or marketing-speak? Does it matter? The reality is no one can get them new now for many many months. Remember that you can always get a Micron now and an Ion later, if you don't like the combination of the dumbed-down interface and using a computer editor for deeper editing. Although I've read mixed reports about how easily the patches transfer between the Ion and the Micron. Check out their forums. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polysix Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 hi, I would pass on the Micron. If you get an Synth, get one with as many buttons and knobs as possible. You want direct access to tweak the sounds. I had a Micron and sold is, because I did not like the sounds. In terms of basis sound material I tend more towards a Novation. X Station or Xio. The Roland SH201 is also a very good option, very basic concept. Sometimes less is more. Good Luck. polysix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Quotes by Mark Schmieder: "The Micron voice editor use created by the "user community". Translation, it is NOT a professional editor and it was not written by Alesis programmers. Sure, it works, but you MUST connect the Micron to a computer in order to accomplish some of the same things you can do on the ION with the Ion's built in front panel controls. "The Micron sounds "better"? Reply: No it doesn't. The Micron and the ION have the same engine. Its the same synth with a different interface and different number of keys. "The Micron sounds a lot better than the Ion as it has much better effects and also has some additional features". Reply: Micron has a reverb chip built in, and has programmable sequencer and arps. I have my Ion plugged into my mixing board, and have a reverb unit that the ION utilizes, so that's a moot point. The only difference is the Micron has reverb built in, the ION doesn't. The Micron does have programmable Sequencer and Arps, which is nice, if you use them. Personally, I don't use Arps all that much on my Ion or my Motif ES8 very much, but it is a nice feature if you have a use for them. "Of course the Ion hardware interface is quite nice and intuitive, but it also has limitations in terms of the knobs being difficult to fine-tune, and no aftertouch for the keyboard" Reply: Yes the hardware interface is quite nice, I wish some of my vintage analogs had such an interface, which they don't. Tell me how the hardware interface has "limitations in terms of knobs being difficult to fine-tune?" I don't get that at all. I have my Ion over two years, and never ran into an instance where I was unable to get what I want to do with that interface. The only thing both the Micron on ION are lacking are a better quality KB, The ION does not have aftertouch and neither does the Micron, both are "Release and release velocity sensitive" according to Alesis's specs on both synths. Neither KB's are not top of the line to begin with when you look at the cost. I am able to play quite comfortably on the ION KB, but the KB is nowhere near as nice as my Motif ES8's, which cost me 4 times as much $$$. The ION is a better synth if you really want to learn subtractive synthesis and not spend a fortune. The Micron is good if you need a budget synth and intend to either use factory patches or connect it to a computer to use in a home studio. Both are excellent bang for the buck synths. Mark, Your take on the ION is a bit off the "Mark". Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 the only Alesis distributor told me the Ion has been discontinued True? Not true...? That's been a rumor for several months. I was assured that the Ion would start shipping again by Summer. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 But I'm also a complete beginner at synthesis . Is the Ion easier to use since it has the larger interface? Or is the Micron just as easy, since I don't really know (yet) what any of those knobs do anyway? Neither of these synths is ideal for learning the basics. Most of us in here learned on what we call "one knob per function" synths, where everything is controlled by clearly labeled knobs and switches that serve only one purpose each. That's the way they used to make them. That's the way I taught my boys the basics. It is so much easier and everything makes sense so much faster. Next time you are in a Guitar Center or something, take a good hard look at the Roland SH-201. This synth was specifically designed as an educational tool, and it is very well laid out. Other candidates would be Nord Leads. Do not worry too much about what reviews say about which synth sounds better at this point! Synths come and go. The knowledge you gain will last you a lifetime and is much more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Bill: The only problem with the Sh-201 is that a "beginner" won't be a beginner a year from now. He/she will outgrow the SH-201 and have to buy another synth sooner rather than later. Your point of a one function per knob was the way were learned back in the old days is quite true, however, why not take advantage of today's technology to save space on the front panel? For example, you can use the one row of ADSR pots on the ION for Filter, AMP, or other parameters by selecting the "Edit" button, then press the "Filter" or "AMP" button (or whatever you want to change) to use the front panel knobs to make changes. Its easy, a beginner won't get confused. You only change one parameter at a time anyway. Vintage synths didn't have an LCD screen either. I'm sure glad my ION has it. I get a graphic representation on the selected parameter that is more meaningful than trial and error on a set of pots trying to arrive at a particular "curve". Its easier to see it on a screen than to envision using a set of pots. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Just my experience from teaching my kids Mike. And the SH-201 is no slouch as a synth either. The Ion is especially problemetic because the knobs are relative so you can't tell how things are set by looking at the front panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Bill, the Sh-201 is a decent synth. Certainly for learning purposes. I suppose I look at the long term purpose of a synth. Nothing is worse than buying a synth for 5 or 600 bucks only to outgrow it in 6 months to a year. Its nice to have something to learn and grow with. The ION UI allows you to get a graphic illustration of the important parameters when editing, like the ADSR curve. That's a big plus. I find the UI quite ingenious for such an inexpensive synth. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I checked out both the Alesis Ion and Roland SH-201 for LH bass. I'm leaning towards the SH-201. Both units provide entry level synth programming. More importantly, they make some cool noises. Once started down this road, GAS is the real culprit leading to "outgrowth". PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Once started down this road, GAS is the real culprit leading to "outgrowth". Amen. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Apparently, the SH-201 does not have a capacity for saving user patches. You might want to double-check that on the Roland site, if they expose the manual for download. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Apparently, the SH-201 does not have a capacity for saving user patches. You might want to double-check that on the Roland site, if they expose the manual for download. Incorrect. The SH-201 supports 32 user patch memories (which is pretty obvious if you glance at the front panel and see the Bank, Patch and Write buttons. Also, the SH-201 manual is on the Roland website (and has been for some time now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc002k Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Thanks for all the input guys, but it looks like I'm going with the Micron for now. The Ion is still back ordered into eternity, and I'm sick of waiting. I just want to get my hands on something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildbill Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 The Micron's fun - and powerful. There's a lot to explore that'll keep you busy for a long time. But there's a lot of ways to get sidetracked with it too. If you want to learn about synthesis first, I'd suggest you work through that part of the manual and get to know how to navigate it well - it's not as hard as a lot of people say. Then later there's a lot of other stuff to try out lke the phrase sequencer and drum patterns and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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