Love the Strat... hate the hum....

[VeloDoug]

MDRS may have posted something before I joined the forum, but my search didn't turn up any hits, so let me start a topic of my own...

 

What I like....

Let me start by letting you know a little about my tastes and background so you know where I'm coming from. You all know my brother and he is vintage to the core. I appreciate the vintage flavors, but am much more rooted on the modern side of the fence... but I'm starting to hop the fence more often than I used to!

 

What I own and am used to...

My main electrics are a '92 PRS Custom 24, a '00 PRS Singlecut and an '86 Jackson Soloist loaded with EMGs (some pics on my MySpace page). I have recently gotten a MIM Strat for some of those excursions over the fence to experiment more with an SRV, Hendrix, Gilmore tone. Amp-wise, I have a couple of Mesa-boogies (Mark IV, Nomad 45, F-30) and favor the more distorted sounds depending on the song I'm playing.

 

My issue....

So, I'm not really accustomed to the 'hum' of singlecoils. With my band, I've found that when I have to opportunity to bust out the Strat for a song that requires a single-coil tone, that I'm so distracted by the hum that I tend to put the Strat back on a stand and grab another guitar... perhaps the Custom 24 with a coiltap setting.

 

My remedies....

So, I know that the MIM electronics are notoriously mediocre. I knew this fact when I bought the guitar and have been mentally prepared to gut it at some point. Now that my band is about ready to start playing out, I think the time is now. I have considered WCR, Lindy Fralin, EMG, and the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage series. I now saw this Guitar World review of the DiMarzio Area '58 and Area '61 Pickups and my interest is pretty high after watching the video on that site.

 

WCR, Lindy Fralin

My brother raves about these, but I fear that while they may have superior tonal qualities that they won't address my personal issues with hum... even with the best electronics cavity shielding job I could do. Nonetheless, these are still on my list because I feel that the lure of incredible tone may one day outweigh my obsession with eliminating hum.

 

EMG

I've had good luck with these on my Jackson. David Gilmore plays them live. He has one of my favorite guitar tones. I've watched him live and on DVD with EMGs and feel that perhaps the criticism from the vintage side of the fence may not be completely fair. I can hear the difference between these pickups on my Jackson and the humbuckers on my PRS guitars and admit that I like the sound of the PRS guitars more for most things I do since they sound more 'organic' to my ears. Still, are these a good compromise between quiet and tone?? Will I still be able to get that SRV sound with EMGs??

 

DiMarzio

I got to a very, very reputable shop here in SF. It is the shop that Santana, Neil Schon, Joe Satriani, Kirk Hammett, etc. go when they aren't touring. This guy is trusted by the best guitarists in the world, so his opinion is one that I'd be stupid to not value. He told me about the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups which apparently have a single coil sound with hum canceling. He said that a lot of 'the guys' use these when they are touring and recording, but don't go out of their way to let the public know it. So, that is pretty intriguing to me. From the review of the Area '58 and '61, it sounds like the next step in DiMarzio's evolution of a single-coil tone without all the hum.

 

Where I am at in the decision process...

I need your help!! I wish I could just go find a guitar with all of these pickups in them, but you know that isn't going to happen. I basically have to buy something and try it out. I have tried a Strat with EMGs in a vintage store, but it was wired up with a bunch of toggles that changed the tone and no one knew what they were really doing. The guitar sounded OK, but I'm not sure it was a good guitar to form an opinion with. Does anyone have any experience with any of the options I'm considering? I am especially interested in hearing from anyone that has used the DiMarzios. They seem to be a good compromise between tone and low-noise and at $69 a PUP a relatively decent value.

 

Well, I'd love to hear your opinions and experiences. Let me know your thoughts... now, I have to go learn some songs for tomorrow rehearsal.

[Guitar55]

Either of these have great tone and no hum. I use Bardens on my Anderson and Kimans on my G&L. If Barden had been back in business sooner I owuld have gone with his.

 

http://joebarden.com/main.php?section=Products&pageID=S-Deluxe

 

www.kinman.com

 

[MILLO]

Either of these have great tone and no hum. I use Bardens on my Anderson and Kimans on my G&L. If Barden had been back in business sooner I owuld have gone with his.

 

http://joebarden.com/main.php?section=Products&pageID=S-Deluxe

 

www.kinman.com

Which sound more strat-y, Barden or Kinman?

[mdrs]

Doug already knows my ideas about strat replacement pickups :grin:

 

Don't forget that other factors come into play, when you are talking about single coil hum.

 

A good power supply is important, so think quality power conditioning.

 

Avoid flourescent lighting, and other sources of electrical interference.

 

Where you stand in relation to your amp makes a difference. Make sure your amp, and your guitar are properly ground.

 

But, I want to learn more about those other pu's.

 

Carry on.....

[Guitarzan]

i don't understand all the hate towards hum.

i had p90's in my LG and it was just a volume knob rollback away from quiet. MIM strats don't have great PU's imho anyway. did anyone mention Kinman pickups yet?

[VeloDoug]

Doug already knows my ideas about strat replacement pickups :grin:

 

Don't forget that other factors come into play, when you are talking about single coil hum.

 

A good power supply is important, so think quality power conditioning.

 

Avoid flourescent lighting, and other sources of electrical interference.

 

Where you stand in relation to your amp makes a difference. Make sure your amp, and your guitar are properly ground.

 

But, I want to learn more about those other pu's.

 

Carry on.....

 

Yes, I definitely value Don's opinion... I would never have considered (or even heard of) the WCR or Fralin's otherwise. Despite the tinnitus, he still has a keen ear for tone!!

 

I have power conditioning, properly grounded and am in a relatively quiet electrical interference zone. I'm just hum-o-phobic.

 

[mdrs]

Hum can be a really bad problem. One of my friends, who's played out everywhere, says that there are clubs where the hum is so bad, that he just can't play a Strat...and Eliot plays good guitars too....

 

Hum has never caused me a big issue either, but then again I don't play out. I can hum to myself, and no one would even know!! :grin:

[VeloDoug]

Either of these have great tone and no hum. I use Bardens on my Anderson and Kimans on my G&L. If Barden had been back in business sooner I owuld have gone with his.

 

http://joebarden.com/main.php?section=Products&pageID=S-Deluxe

 

www.kinman.com

 

I checked out both websites and am interested in

(1) which Kinmans you have and

(2) why you prefer the Barden's.

 

On the Barden website I didn't get the impression that these humbuckers tried to sound like single-coils, but were humbuckers that would fit in a single-coil cutout without modifying your instrument. Since I am trying to achieve a single-coil tone, this feature didn't appeal to me since I have plenty of humbucker-equipped guitars. Let me know if you think I have the wrong impression from the Barden website. Thanks for your input!

[Gruupi]

I have Kinmans Avn62 in neck and middle of a guitar and like them very much. Very clean bright tone and very quiet, quieter than the Duncan 59 in the bridge. They aren't cheap but I am glad I sprung for them. I debated going Lace Sensors but those sound dead to me. The Kinmans have a great tone, very musical super clean, not muddy at all. When you use distortion still sound very good too.

[Goalie Blues]

You may want to look into a PUP shaild I found on the net. I haven't tried it yet but I'm thinking about it because I play in a room with a flourescent light.

 

www.dochumfree.com

[Rhino Madness]

I have Kinman pickups in my Strat (AVn62 in the bridge, AVn56 in middle and neck). They truly give the traditional Strat sound (but without hum ) in any pickup position and are full of life whether used clean or distorted. I got them a couple of years before the re-design in 2001 so I can not vouch for the current production but would assume the same results or better.

 

They completely smoke the Fender Vintage Noiseless pickups but I have not heard the other pickups you mention. The older DiMarzio HS-1 and HS-3 are very good with a distorted tone but were did not impress me when used clean. The new DiMarzio Area pickups you mentioned seem promising but it's always hard to tell when not heard live.

 

Good luck with your search!

[Hardtail]

Doug,

 

Before you get all crazy trying to figure out what custom, non-humming, wiz-bang pickups you should get, give yourself some time to get used to your Strat as is.

 

Before getting my Strat a year ago, I was primarily a LP, humbucker only kind of person so it's taken some time to get used to.

 

Now though, I love the sound of the Strat... buzz and all.

[alfonso]

The best thing I found for my strat is the shielding and star grounding instructions found here.

 

And the Strat's Lover Mod I also did is great because doesn't change the look and you don't loose any of the 5 normal positions but you add some really cool new sounds:

 

http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.php

 

I can say that the hum is almost gone, a night/day difference.

 

 

 

[mdrs]

You are not alone, Brother!!;

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1743175/page/0/fpart/1

 

 

[Michael Patrick]

I used to have a MIM Strat. The middle pickup was RPRW, so positions two and four were silent. Is yours wired that way? I would put the selector in one of those positions between songs to kill the hum. I couldn't hear the hum over the music when I was playing...

[mdrs]

The best thing I found for my strat is the shielding and star grounding instructions found here.

 

And the Strat's Lover Mod I also did is great because doesn't change the look and you don't loose any of the 5 normal positions but you add some really cool new sounds:

 

http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.php

 

I can say that the hum is almost gone, a night/day difference.

 

 

 

Good reference, Alfonso I remember reading this some time ago. That GuitarNuts site has some useful info.

[The Geoff]

Most of the menu tabs in GuitarNuts have been hijacked - go try.

 

G.

[A String]

Most of the menu tabs in GuitarNuts have been hijacked - go try.

 

G.

 

I had a look at it. What's happened is, he's left the "head" tag open. This is making it load Amazon.com and Ebay etc. from the links at the top of the page.

[The Geoff]

Ooooohh! Someone who understands what's happening!!! I'm impressed, Craig.

 

 

Geoff

[Dr. Ellwood]

OK..Bottom line DOUG!! IF you can hear the humm....you are NOT playing LOUD ENOUGH!!! :-/

[VeloDoug]

I used to have a MIM Strat. The middle pickup was RPRW, so positions two and four were silent. Is yours wired that way? I would put the selector in one of those positions between songs to kill the hum. I couldn't hear the hum over the music when I was playing...

 

I don't understand what RPRW is, but when I am between the middle and either the bridge or neck, there is a hum cancelling effect. Unfortunately, these in between positions often don't have the tone I'm going for. I do use them as a compromise, though.

[VeloDoug]

OK..Bottom line DOUG!! IF you can hear the humm....you are NOT playing LOUD ENOUGH!!! :-/

 

That's not what my wife says!!!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Yes, there are lots of things you can do about the hum on the

Strats, as the guys here have said HOWEVER.... just let me understand a little more about how bad the hum is? Out of all the Strats I own (allot) I don't have any that hum so bad that anyone including me are aware of when playing at live gig levels. I guess maybe the hum could be a problem in the studio, although even there I've never had a problem with it. If the hum you are getting is loud enough to be heard over your guitar signal or the bands mix, WOW!! there is something really wrong! I mean it's a total replace thing and not a fix thing! A hum that is that loud sounds like someting other than pickups alone, like cables, or the input jack wiring, or the input jack on the amp, or a ground off the guitar itself?

[Rhino Madness]

I used to have a MIM Strat. The middle pickup was RPRW, so positions two and four were silent. Is yours wired that way? I would put the selector in one of those positions between songs to kill the hum. I couldn't hear the hum over the music when I was playing...

 

I don't understand what RPRW is(...)

Reverse Polarity Reverse Wound (compared to the bridge and neck pickups, for the purpose of eliminating hum in the in-between positions).

[D. Fox]

I'm with Ellwood on this. If Strat's "hum" is that bad, something else is wrong, i.e. too much distortion, bad ground, etc... The way I see it, of all the guys who have played a wound-up Strat over the years (Jimi, Beck, Uli, Rory, etc) it's not like you actually hear it!

[b3_john]

I was going to start a separate thread, and I still may (Edit: OK I did), but some of my questions are already being asked here...

 

I'm in the market for a MIM-type Strat. Probably $400 plus another $200 for noise-less/hum-less PUPs, that's what I have budgeted anyway.

 

If I went with the DiMarzio Area '61 and '58 PUPs, would I put the '61 in the bridge and the '58s in the neck and middle? Since these are noiseless, do you skip the RPRW scenario for these, like Fender does with their SCN PUPs in the Am Deluxe Strats? And would that make mods like neck+bridge more straightforward and still quiet?

 

Edit: Is there any reason I wouldn't want to just run three Area '61s?

 

Also, does anyone have a link to the Kinsman website? I can't find my bookmark (probably on a different computer) and Google is less than helpful these days. IIRC, he doesn't have US distributors anymore? You have to order from down under (now we know how the Aussies feel, huh?) to the tune of $300 (USD) per set?

 

Any help appreciated...

 

John

[Zuben]

What good is a Strat without hum? :-) Kidding. As the owner of about 12 Stats over the years, I have become pretty good at hum reduction.

 

The first thing I do to a new strat that I am not changing the pickups in is line the routed out areas with copper foil. Then I bond copper foil on the pickup cover / pick guard. All of the posts are then soldered on using braided ground strapping to all the foil and components.

 

I have found only one strat that I couldn't get the hum out but them I found out the pups were some cheap replacements.

 

Ellwood has all the other info you need. His advice works well with ALL gear that can have hum induced.

 

Most of you know I have one of my strats with EMG pickups, it was originally set up for recording but it has become my 1st or 2nd guitar I reach for on stage. I like the feel.

 

This is an opinion, I am sure there are better pups than the EMGs but I found the price right and listening to recordings made live, I can't tell which strat I am playing. The EMGs keep the strat sound without any hum. Now the battery sucks ;-)

 

The 2 best sounding guitars I have owned, besides my strats, and wish I still did were a 59 SG. Oh what a neck. And a 81-82 Ibanez Artist. That was stolen. I have been shopping for another but the word is out on them. I paid $400 new, they are going in the $1500 range.

 

The reason we own several guitars of different make and pickups is some music demands it. The strat is a good all around compromise. There are times I would love to have a LP for a song but I have tried to pare down my traveling guitars down to 4.

 

Peace

 

[Guitar55]

Either of these have great tone and no hum. I use Bardens on my Anderson and Kimans on my G&L. If Barden had been back in business sooner I owuld have gone with his.

 

http://joebarden.com/main.php?section=Products&pageID=S-Deluxe

 

www.kinman.com

 

 

I checked out both websites and am interested in

(1) which Kinmans you have and

(2) why you prefer the Barden's.

 

On the Barden website I didn't get the impression that these humbuckers tried to sound like single-coils, but were humbuckers that would fit in a single-coil cutout without modifying your instrument. Since I am trying to achieve a single-coil tone, this feature didn't appeal to me since I have plenty of humbucker-equipped guitars. Let me know if you think I have the wrong impression from the Barden website. Thanks for your input!

 

I have the Kinman Blues set. They are very Strat-like, although a friend of mine thinks the neck pickup is not QUITE there.

 

The Bardens are, IMHO, the BEST Tele pickups you can buy. They were designed for Danny Gatton.

 

Listen to this and tell me if they sound like humbuckers: Twister.

 

This was recorded with my Bardens-equipped Tom Anderson through a POD.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Hay 55 I love that Strat-like tone on Twister! and VERY NICE playing too Mr!!!:-)

[mdrs]

Hey 55........that's some purdy fancy pickin for a Jersey boy!! LOL.

 

Seriously, that was some SERIOUSLY good playing. And, very nice tone too.

 

Vince Gill better watch out!!

 

:thu: