Beware the new Ampeg

[tatudbassman]

It took about 6 weeks to get my B200r, and I was let down. I put the money up ahead of time and when I recieved my "made in china" combo the rear panel rattled. After we tightened the back panel, I was trying to "dial in" the settings and noticed that the tweeter was buzzing plus I wasn't getting the tone I wanted comparable the my b100r. We changed rooms, and unplugged the tweeter. Then after we plugged it back in(the power), it took a crap. I'm very dissapointed that I had to ditch it to buy a GK Backline 210 instead.

The Ampeg B200R looked great, and I love the classic "Ampeg" sound/tone but, when they switched to making them in China I guess the quality stayed here in the U.S.!!!!!

 

[...]

Last I heard Ampeg was going to be making everything overseas save the SVT Classic head. Hopefully you just got a bad one. One would hope that Ampeg isn't going to start sacrificing quality and living off their name. History has shown that companies that do this eventually suffer.

[Rocky McDougall]

I think we need to try to accept the "Made in China" label. Everyting is now worldwide manufacturing. Many things show that quality is not always less than expected. As major companies now control the quality, it should improve. Just a few years ago, "Made in Japan" scared us away and now the quality is as good as it gets and sometimes more expensive than "Made in the USA" I regret it, but it is a fact of life now.

Rocky

[Barks]

I'm not convinced Rocky. My recent experiences with almost everything 'made in china' has been below par. So much that I now actively seek to avoid buying stuff from there. (Admitedly it's getting harder to do that though.) I don't know who's fault that is.

I would rather pay a bit more for something (made anywhere) than buy something that turns out to be poorly made and a waste of money. It appears that the Chinese have no problem making anything at any quality level. Cheap seems to equal rubbish wherever it comes from.

We don't seem to make anything over here in the UK anymore. Very depressing.

[getz out]

There are some good Chinese manufacturers and some not good Chinese manufacturers.

 

I believe LOUD Technologies moved Ampeg's production to Vietnam after they purchased St. Louis Music.

[SteveC]

In the end we will all be paying the price for outsourcing our economy.

[zeronyne]

It's the opposite. No one in the US wants to pay ANY premium price for goods and services these days. With all the blind patriotism and outright prejudice in the USA, do you really think ANY company wants to move operations, ANY operations, to a foreign country? They are forced to do so to compete and to survive thanks to greedy shareholders and greedy consumers. And don't try to play the "greedy corporation" card. It would be much more profitable if people were willing to pay a realistic price for goods without making them commodities.

 

And as far as avoiding foreign goods...you simply cannot, unless you don't own a car or a computer...or clothes. Even things that are "Made in the USA" don't need to disclose the source of their parts.

 

But there's a way to avoid all of this xenophobic negativity, at least in the bass world. If you hate goods made in particular Asian countries, buy a custom bass from an North American luthier, but make sure its passive...god knows where the PCB for that preamp came from. Oh, wait, where are CTS pots made? What about Grover Tuners? And the fretwire? And I want to only pay as much for it as I would a Geddy Lee sig. Oh wait, the luthier uses a CNC machine? Who wrote the operating system for it? And what about the heating unit in his shop?

[zeronyne]

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not a liberal (but I am a global capitalist). But I don't like to see random country bashing either.

 

Why not write to Ampeg and ask them to change manufacturing locales, since you find the quality of their products unacceptable? While your at it, ask them why they did it in the first place. Also ask them roughly how many people object to their products' origins? You may or may not be surprised.

[Rocky McDougall]

We make some wonderful instruments in this country but few can afford them. I am sure these boutique builders are not getting rich making $4,000 and up basses, and they are worth the money, but "Joe Citizen" cannot pass up the quailty and cost of the fairly good Asian product. Me included. I would love a Sadowsky or a Lull, but not with my Social Security income.

Rocky

[Rocky McDougall]

My recent experiences with almost everything 'made in china' has been below par.

 

We must compare products in the same price range to judge their quality. Which manufacture makes a really good $300 bass in the US or UK?

Rocky

[getz out]

There can be a deep discussion had regarding free trade versus fair trade, but that is not going to happen online with ill-informed, emotional people.

 

Personally, I put a premium on mass-produced items made in Japan, Germany, and Italy (in that order). This based on personal experience, but it also reflects the type of goods I purchase.

 

To reiterate a point that zeronyne made above, I am the corporations. Anyone else in the US that works for a company has a 401k, a savings account, pays taxes, goes to school, has a social-security number or is on welfare is also the corporations.

 

If the consumer had conscience, software would be cheaper and Behringer would be out of business.

[getz out]

Plus, who needs an Ampeg anymore, since IK Multimedia came out with Ampeg SVX?

[Michele C.]

I have seen amazing works of beauty coming from china, porcelain, laquer, furniture. It is difficult to believe that craftmanship is in short supply there.

It is easier to think that western companies do not enforce quality control in the same way when they move production offshore.

[TimR]

It won't last long. Already the workers in China and Japan are demanding proper wages, because they have to be able to afford their McDonalds and Cokes (and Ampegs B200rs). The word is getting back to all those farms and small villages that working conditions aren't all that are promised. Prices will rise.

 

The global economy is here.

 

It makes sense to me to assemble things close to the source of the parts, and just ship the final product.

 

Anyone with a pension is a shareholder. If you want your pension to support you in your old age while you sit around doing nothing, are you that greedy shareholder?

[jcadmus]

You can complain about everything being made in China or you can shop at Walmart.

 

But you can't do both.

[music-man]

I guess I'm suspicious of any claim that "made in China" or "made in Japan" or "made in Mexico" indicates anything about the quality of the workmanship, for exactly the reason MicheleC raises:

 

I have seen amazing works of beauty coming from china, porcelain, laquer, furniture. It is difficult to believe that craftmanship is in short supply there.

 

If Ampeg's Asian production lines are spitting out crap, I assume it's because Ampeg has done a crummy job of training and paying its workers, sourcing its parts, and QC'ing the product. So, more broadly, if a company capitalizes on cheap labor and raw materials in developing and Asian countries, but fails to examine and impose controls on production - this indicates nothing to me about the workmanship of people in that country.

It says a lot to me about the company.

 

It will, however, be interesting to see what happens in the next 20 years ... what has happened to the American auto industry may well be a sad template for the future.

[Rocky McDougall]

We just had a new Toyota truck plant open in our city. It created thousands of new jobs for local, so-called, unskilled workers. Toyota trained them very well and they are building better trucks, "made in the USA", than we can get from Ford or Chevrolet. I am curious, could Fender Japan open a plant here and build better products than Fender USA for a lower selling price? Would we be anxious to buy them?

Rocky

[getz out]

Some great points by MicheleC reiterated by music-man.

 

Also, Rocky makes a good point. I owned a 1993 Jeep made in Canada, and I own a 2000 Benz made in Alabama. Which is the domestic and which is the import?

[rumpelstiltskin.]

considering they're both daimler chrysler, neither.

 

robb.

[getz out]

Wasn't Dailmer Chrysler in 1993.

[Gruuve]

Boy, this is a can of worms. The global economy will continue to happen whether we want it to or not. We just have to figure out how to best leverage it to our own advantage (both in an individual sense and a collective sense...hard to resolve I know).

 

Dave

 

[dcr]

The good news, though, is that there is the potential for China to become the next Korea, just as Korea has become the next Japan (and Japan the next USA or Germany), where manufacture is concerned. "Made in Japan" is now a selling-point for a car, which is pretty different from 30+ years ago. "Made in Korea" means something very different on a headstock now from what it meant just 10+ years ago. My guess is that "Made in China" will take on new meaning in time, too.

 

Of course, it's unfortunate if right now it means "bad transitional products," as the original posts suggests it might for the Ampeg B200r. I for one consider myself warned, at least for the near future.

[Luke73]

I'm sick of reading random China bashing on forums.

 

I've seen great stuff from China, and poor stuff from China, just like so many other coutnries.

 

My GK 700RB-II was a POS that crapped out on me (not once, but twice - even after being "fixed"under warranty, and they were two separate, unrelated faults) only a few months old. Guess what...it was Made in the USA.

 

My Nemesis NC210 is a fantastic combo. Solid, reliable, and great sounding. Guess what. Made in China.

 

The comparisons are endless. I can think of other things I own that are from China, and excellent too. I can also think of other US made components that have failed on me as well. The point is, they mean nothing.

 

As previously stated, if the new Asian Ampeg gear is crap, it's not because it's from China, it's because Ampeg have done a poor job on QC...

 

 

 

 

[Danzilla]

The Phil Jones Bass amps are designed by a guy from the UK, who has a company in the USA, and has them built in China. All those international tariffs must be why they're so bloody expensive. Great stuff though; so obviously there are some well trained manufacturers in China.

[tatudbassman]

You all have your points, and one thing I want to add is...I'm not against anything made outside the US. I've been in manufacturing and fabrication for 25 years. And, over those years I've steadily seen the job market here in the US dwindle. I'm a mfg engineer working at Wal-mart now. And I believe that, is in part to greed/laziness. We all want something for nothing, and we're all going to suffer "In the end we will all be paying the price for outsourcing our economy.".

Okay, off my soapbox...I (used to) love Ampeg products. First, I love their tone (on average), I like (liked) that classic "ampeg" soung better than anything else out there. Hell...I even like the way their products look, and IT WAS MADE IN THE US, which was just "icing on the cake". I take pride in America, and in American manufacturing but, when the quality is subpar I go with quality first! That great looking B200R just doesn't cut it on looks alone. I have to have reliability and some sound coming out of that speaker behind me! That's why I was so dissappointed...to be proud, and see "our" jobs outsourced overseas and to recieve a subpar product? I do hope it was 1 out of 1000 but, why me...? I want to believe in Ampeg again but, after that I'll be investigating alot harder for "that sound".

[DavidMPires]

I work for a big bank in the UK and relating to mortgage services, I have seen a handfull of work and departments being offshored, this means loads of money saving, but I at least for now the quality of the service is not as good, just because the main headquarters do not provide good training, and when you don't provide the tools it's impossible to have a good final product.

 

That said i have a fantastic Spector Euro Lx that has been made in europe and sounds and feels as good as the NS series twice more expensive. regarding Ampeg I am getting a bit concerned and will be having a good look at this thread when I decide to extend my Ampeg rig.

[tatudbassman]

p.s. I'm not going to accept the "made in china" label over the "Made In USA" label!

America just needs to get off it's butt, and quit being so greedy. Or, we're going to loose All our jobs.

Sorry...

[tatudbassman]

p.s #2

I love Ampeg stuff...their SVT Classic/SVT Pro heads, and 810e cabs are the s#*t!

I'll be looking deeper tho.

[Rocky McDougall]

Many Americans are forced to look for bargin pricing. We are reluctant to pay more for US made products. We are angry that most companies must outsouce jobs to remain in business. We see bargin priced instruments, amps, pedals everywhere. These are much cheaper that they were 10 years ago and the quality is OK. Will things change back as they used to be or will we outsourse even more? I fear the latter. I'm not happey about it but that is how it is.

Rocky

[mcbn]

The problem is that the US just doesn't make a decent sportbike. Harley makes the V-Rod and Polaris/Victory make the Hammer bikes, but those are large cruisers. If I were in the market for one of those I'd probably buy American, but I'm not.

 

So you bring up Buell... okay fine. I've ridden 3 or 4 Buells and I don't like them. They don't feel stable at speed and they feel really twitchy around town. There is just not enough rake angle in the front, I feel like I'm sitting on top of the front wheel. Secondly, those things are air-cooled bikes. I'm sorry, but I commute roughly 350 miles a week on a bike in Houston, TX. When I get stuck in traffic because lanesplitting is illegal, my watercooled bike starts to heat up quite a bit. I've passed too many air-cooled Harleys on the side of the road because they overheated. Finally, the bikes vibrate like a paint-shaker at idle.

 

I could buy a German or Italian bike. I'd love a BMW F800S, but they are brand new production and a little on the expensive side. I considered a Ducati Monster S2R or an older M900, but the maintenance cost on them is a little too high for the kind of mileage I'm riding these days. I'm on track for 15K miles and that is too much maintenance costs on a Duc.

 

I'll stick to my Suzuki SV650S. They are inexpensive, handle great with a few upgrades, get good mileage, have very low maintenance requirements (15K valve adjustments) and the aftermarket support is huge.

 

Wrong forum, same discussion. I think you get the idea.