UTS-D Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hey Everyone, Long time no nothing, eh? BP, I like the new digs... So...my quest is to convert my 2002 ESP F-205 into a fretless monster. My reason for doing this? My band, Under The Stone, is hitting up the studio to record a full length CD. In practicing to my metronome, I noticed that some parts on some songs are screaming for some fretless action. Being that I can't afford a quality fretless at this juncture, and I can't get the guys to wait until I can afford a fretless, I have decided to perform rocket surgery on my back up bass. The point to this post? I've read tons of literature about removing frets, and I'm taking the best ideas I find and coming up with a master plan so I don't end up with a hack job. I've got the tools, sandpaper, varnish and sealant, and I'm wondering if any you Low Freq Dwellers having any tips and/or ideas. Thank you for your time. Don PS- Telling me NOT to do it is neither a tip or advice, and I say that with all due respect. :grin: PSS- I can't take this to a "pro" because I don't have the money nor the time to wait, besides I've kinda done this before on a really old bass (Ibanez SDGR 200...nothing quality) but I just ripped the frets out with caution to the wind. Thanks again. Don UNDER THE STONE Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 <clickety> Welcome to the world of DIY fretless. If I use wood in the slots again I will either build a jig or use a roto-tool to route the slots cleaner for wood inserts. Another option is using epoxy wood filler to occupy the slots instead of widening them. On the left edge of my page you'll see links to Fret Not Guitar Repair and a defret job by Mike Lull. There's lots of good stuff out there. Good luck. Take pictures, show us how it turns out, and cover or remove absolutely everything you don't want sandpaper to touch. - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 here is a direct link to Mike Lull's defret job. - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I bought a *Real Cheap* Keiper off Ebay (about $90 but surprisingly OK for that money) and the frets pulled easily with no splintering, maybe because it was pretty new. I filled the slots with Liquid Wood filler & gave it all a good sanding & oiling when it was set. That was nearly a year ago and the neck hasn't moved. If I were doing it again, on a better quality bass, I'd use wood veneer and a Dremel, as mentioned above. Biggest tip? Don't hurry. Geoff "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Fumblyfingers (from the Guitar Forum) did a great job on converting a fretless last year. At least I think it was him! There's a thread knocking around this forum where he discussed the process in detail and loads of pictures. You could always PM him. Here's one thread [urlhttps://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/19/topic/016302/Number/0/site_id/1#import]here[/url] Mind you having checked, I'm not sure there's anything you wouldn't already know. Here's another defret thread. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTS-D Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll see about getting pictures and documenting my progress. I started last night with pulling the frets; it was surprisingly easy, but patience was the real trick of it all. To fill in the gaps, I'm using DAP plastic wood. I don't exactly trust myself with a routing tool. I need more practice with that and right now, it's all about getting this bass done in for the studio. But all in all, things are going really well and patience is the key. The price of this project so far is $33.87. I'm thinking that while I'm at it I might see about upgrading the electronics. Thanks again, I'll see about posting some pictures.Don UNDER THE STONE Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTS-D Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Update: My project is coming along rather well. A lot better than I was expecting. I wish I had pics for you guys but my camera decided to take a dump on me. I was thinking about waiting on my project so I could borrow a camera, but this past weekend in San Diego was absolutely perfect weather for staining and polyurethane, I simply couldn't pass it up. Right now, I'm waiting for the polyurethane to just sit for a while before I reassemble. Next week, I'm going to go ahead and replace the pickups and electronics. Here's a list of what I did: Day 1 End nippers to remove the frets SLOWLY. Dap Wood Plastic for dark wood (Special Walnut, Dark Walnut, Ebony...)to fill in the gaps. And allowed to sit over night. Day 2 60 grit sandpaper 100 grit sandpaper 220 grit sandpaper More Dap Wood Plastic because the 1st application shrank a bit. 100 grit sandpaper 220 grit sandpaper 350 grit wet sandpaper 600 grit wet sandpaper Mini Wax (I think) Special Walnut stain - 1st coat applied and allowed to sit for 3 hours. Light sanding with 600 grit wet sandpaper Mini Wax (I think) Special Walnut stain - 2nd coat applied and allowed to sit for 3 hours. Day 3 Polyurethane - 1st coat applied and allowed to sit for 4 hours Light sanding with 600 grit wet sandpaper Polyurethane - 2nd coat applied and allowed to sit for 4 hours Polyurethane - 3rd coat lightly applied and allowed to sit. Day 3 was Sunday so the neck is sitting and curing, waiting for reassembly. UNDER THE STONE Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxofunk Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 So, it looks like you're going for that shiny look and feel, nice. I like the walnut stain - that's a nice touch to even out the color of the fretboard. - Matt W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Did you have to heat the frets to get them to come out? Did you pull straight up or at an angle? Did you say you used a dark walnut wood filler? So, you will not have any "Noticable fret lines? Do you have side dots? Questions, Questions, Questions!!!! Glad your having fun on your project. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTS-D Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 No, I didn't heat the frets. I bowed the neck a bit backwards to open the gaps a little. Not too much, but a little. I started on the low string side of the fret and gently pulled on the fret. Once the edge raised, I moved the end nippers little by little down towards the high string side of the neck. I didn't see any traces of glue on the frets or in the gaps so my guess is ESP just hammered them in. 24 frets took me just over an hour and a half to completely remove. The slower you go, the less and smaller chips you will have. Only twice, did my hand slip and a bigger chip came off but it wasn't too big, just bigger than I would have liked. The key for me was patience and gentle persuasion. Yeah, the wood filler I used was this one: http://www.dap.com/images/products/21141_2001.jpg But its color was for dark woods and it listed: Special Walnut, Dark Walnut, Ebony and another one that I forget. The stain I used was this one: http://www.minwax.com/images/Products/woodfinish.jpg The color is Special Walnut http://www.minwax.com/images/Swatches/Stain/specwal.jpg That color stain blended with the rosewood fretboard to make a nice dark brownish-red tint. The fret lines took on the Special Walnut stain and I put a couple coats and let it set for a while to make the color richer. So the fretlines are there but they don't stick out. They're nice and subtle. And finally I used Polyurethane: http://www.minwax.com/images/Products/fast-poly.jpg I used the clear satin instead of the semi-gloss or gloss. And yes, I do have side dots. I was afraid the side dots and inlays were going to stain but they didn't. Any more questions, please just ask. :grin: UNDER THE STONE Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Cool dude...sounds like you're moving right along with this. What electronics are you going to put into it? The only suggestion I'd make it to go with the most flexible electronics you can, since there's probably some uncertainty about how it will sound once done. More flexibility = more wiggle room to get the right sound...IMHO, of course. Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTS-D Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 I was thinking about installing some Bartolini pickups and Bartolini electronics. Does anyone have any other good suggestions? UNDER THE STONE Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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