Help me become the worlds best textural guitarist

[Mark LaCoste]

Okay, maybe not *worlds best*, but I need a few clues to start. Here's my story. I've always loved cool electric guitar sounds that are used like pads. Andy Summers's work with the police was the first stuff I really noticed, but now I hear it used used a lot. Since my own studio is a Singer-songwriter paradise this is a skill I would like to acquire. Last night I saw Patty Larkin play in Ashland, Oregon. Her "band" was a great drummer and a guitarist named Marc Shulman. Marc danced around on a circle of foot pedals and wanked madly on the neck of his guitar, resulting in the most wonderously supportive, glassy, swooping, etherial sounds -- I was inspired. I wanna develop my own style of etherial guitar! I have a tele and a POD. Oh, and somebody gave me an old Rolland ME-5 foot stomper thingie that I've never taken out of the box, and I have a volume/wah pedal, too. Do any of you Guitar Goo Roo's have a fave technique or two I can start with? Lessee... I want to sound like a a creaky screen-door hinge that morphs into a distant cross-country motorcyle race and ends like the dripping of glacial ice into a metalic pool...

[MixterRader]

ive had the pleasure of recording marc a few times and i must say the man is a genius

[Brakka]

Andy Summers used two delay pedals and a chorus. Also the Roland JC amp he often used had both speakers mic'ed, and was often double tracked on record. For technique, try harmonics and volume swells. For theory, try sus2 chords or 9ths- like A B C# E Experiment! :)

[Barandine Vondenger]

I must not have understood the question.. ahahaha! I learn so much here by accident it boggles my mind sometimes.. ahahaha! imagine what one could learn on purpose....

[Mark LaCoste]

MixterRader, You in New York? Man, that's a long way from where I'm at... and not just geographically. The only thing that makes me want to go there is when I get to see NY artists come through. Big, stinky, cities do breed some great artists. Some good friends, too. I'm listening to the CD that last night's performance supported and it's interesting that Marc's live parts were way more involved than what's on the CD. Brakka, thanks. This is where I'll start -- your suggestion: "For technique, try harmonics and volume swells. For theory, try sus2 chords or 9ths- like A B C# E" All familiar territory except for swells. -ml

[KenElevenShadows]

Volume swells can be easily accomplished with a volume pedal. I use two delays and a reverb pedal through a Carr Rambler amplifier (not always at once). I like putting the delays after the volume pedal personally, but it's all about experimenting to see what textures you really love to add to the emotion of the song. Check out [url=http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Nectarphonic/]Nectarphonic[/url] , especially "Hands" and "Will I" and see if this is what you are looking for.

[michael saulnier]

There was a nice article on Andy's style in Guitar Player a while back. What stuck with me was the use of stacked 5th's that give a three note chord that's neither major or minor. These can be fun with the delays, chorus, phase, flange and other effects... It's also fun to use false harmonics using the technique of fretting a note, then lightly touching the string above the octive fret, providing an in-tune harmonic. Using the stacked chords, with a delay and this technique can give you some of that "rain drop" sounding stuff! guitplayer

[OctaveDr]

i use an oberheim echoplex, along with a lexicon jamman and vortex...

[Botch.]

Look up everything you can on King Crimson, Adrian Belew, and especially Robert Fripp. Get KC's concert video(s), Fripp does his "Frippertronics" solo, building up individual loops played one by one on his guitar, until there's this huge wash of sound, very nice!

[jeffbayson]

[quote]Originally posted by Botch.: [b]Look up everything you can on King Crimson, Adrian Belew, and especially Robert Fripp. Get KC's concert video(s), Fripp does his "Frippertronics" solo, building up individual loops played one by one on his guitar, until there's this huge wash of sound, very nice![/b][/quote]What he said. Also, check out Fripp and Eno's groundbreaking, collaborative albums "No Pussyfooting" and "Evening Star."

[offramp]

One of the first steps is to realize that the tone knob also goes to the left. :D I have a Tele and a POD, too. Lots of fun. One setup I had, recently, was to take one POD output into an echoplex, the output of which was fed into a volume pedal, the output then fed into an amp; the other POD output into another amp. Neck pickup, compressor post-Tele/pre-POD.

[dougsthang]

Effects will only enhance the original source sound. Any electrical field held close around the pickups can produce an array of wild sounds. Drills, E Bows, Cell Phones, Electric Carrot peelers.... you get the point. Delays and reverbs will broaden the over impact of the sound. The only way really to get there is no rules, anything goes. It's the crazy accidents that create the best things...

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by dougsthang': [b]Effects will only enhance the original source sound. Any electrical field held close around the pickups can produce an array of wild sounds. Drills, E Bows, Cell Phones, Electric Carrot peelers.... you get the point. Delays and reverbs will broaden the over impact of the sound. The only way really to get there is no rules, anything goes. It's the crazy accidents that create the best things...[/b][/quote]Yes. The aforementioned song "Hands" uses quite a lot of E-Bow, as well as some psychedelic stuff done with really simple effects in the middle part. Holding up just about anything with an electrical field can produce interesting results. Please don't do the ray gun thing, though - it's been done to death!! Andy Summers is definitely an influence of mine on my guitar playing. So is Eno (yes, Eno didn't play guitar very much, but you know what I mean if you are a fan).

[Jonathan Hughes]

In addition to the artists already mentioned, you might also want to check out music by Bill Frissel, Michael Brooke, David Torn, and Jeff Pearce. Jonathan

[KenElevenShadows]

I'll stick my neck out on the chopping block and also mention The Edge of U2. Say what you will about the band's cloying pretentiousness or whatever, but I feel that their guitarist has really etched out an incredibly original style that is (usually) tasteful and textural.

[Mark LaCoste]

A Plan emerges. There are a number of things to try here, and this is obviously a "wide open" subject, but one thing is strangely consistent. Two delaysare commonly used. I am curious about this. Ken, it sounds like you often use the reverb to really smooth over the delays (i listened to your stuff, good work!). Are you using multi-tap delays to get that infinite sustain? Two delays working together would provide lots of possibilities... endless. I really want an ebow but my pennies keep going for other toys. Maybe I can find a freeware Electric Carrot Peeler Plugin (the ECP-1? might work ith a whole-wheat VSTi Wrapper)

[BP3]

A couple other (older) atmospheric guitarists would be Steve Hackett, Steve Hillage, Phil Manzanera and Allan Holdsworth (Allan's clean chordal stuff with processing is quite thick and open at the same time). Listen to some David Sylvian stuff. Very nice textures there. The Lexicon Vortex mentioned earlier is a very unique piece for guitar. It's perfect for more outside atmopsheric and ambient guitar work. It wasn't very popular with guitarists in general, but due to that, it can be found on eBay really cheap at times.

[dougsthang]

I was just going to mention Allan Holdsworth when TinderArts mentioned it. Allan's use of a volume pedal and delays on his chordal passages is a good place start. Also the king of whacked sounds used tastefully is Tom Morrello... Rage/Audioslave. I've been hearing nothing but good things about the Adrenalinn Pedal by Roger Linn. Might be worth a look..

[doc taz]

[quote]Originally posted by TinderArts: [b]A couple other (older) atmospheric guitarists would be Steve Hackett, Steve Hillage, Phil Manzanera and Allan Holdsworth (Allan's clean chordal stuff with processing is quite thick and open at the same time). Listen to some David Sylvian stuff. Very nice textures there. The Lexicon Vortex mentioned earlier is a very unique piece for guitar. It's perfect for more outside atmopsheric and ambient guitar work. It wasn't very popular with guitarists in general, but due to that, it can be found on eBay really cheap at times.[/b][/quote]I just LOVE Allan's stuff done this way. Check out Oneiric Moor from the album "Wardenclyffe Tower". Great piece. All good guitarists mentioned in this thread.

[Mark LaCoste]

Man, I need to do some listening! So many suggestions. Makes me miss the public libraries of Seattle. Say, Offramp, if you're listening, do you have the footpedal deal with your POD? The thing strikes me as a bit hard to use without it. Everytime I switch emulations I have to slightly move each chickenhead to "register" it's current position... So perhapse installing the POD software would help with that problem when I'm in the studio (most of the time).

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by Rubber Lizard: [b]Ken, it sounds like you often use the reverb to really smooth over the delays (i listened to your stuff, good work!). Are you using multi-tap delays to get that infinite sustain? Two delays working together would provide lots of possibilities... endless.[/b][/quote]I do use a little bit of reverb to smooth it over. This comes from the Electro-Harmonix reverb pedal, which is pretty good for the money, but is no Lexicon or TC Electronics! I am using two delays placed after the volume pedal: Dan Electro Echo and a Boss digital delay/sampler (although I don't use the sample part very much). The latter provides the really long delay, which I switch on occasionally for long volume swells and other effects. However, a lot of of the time, I use an E-Bow for the single-note infinite sustains. I don't consider this to be a gimmick. Maybe it's because I am a keyboardist, and some feel that I therefore approach the guitar more texturally. Maybe! But in either case, this is the atmospheres that I feel create more emotional impact for the group and supports the songs, and a way in which I really enjoy playing. The most important thing in any of this, of course, is to get a beautiful tone plugging straight into the amp. I use a Gibson SG (1967) and a Carr Rambler tube amplifier. When you have a beautiful tone, then you can start introducing gizmos between to make sure that you continue to get a great tone. That said, I didn't have the Carr Rambler during the recordings, but instead was using a Fender Super Reverb for the recordings. And I do feel that Fender makes some beautiful sounding amps. Thank you for your compliments. Hopefully the recordings sound a lot better than the mix I did for GT3, which was fun but in my opinion, a lousy mix (MY mix, not other people's mix). But it was a wonderful learning experience for me and a lot of fun.

[Hanshananigan]

[quote]Originally posted by TinderArts: [b]...Listen to some David Sylvian stuff. Very nice textures there. [/b][/quote]I'll ditto that. The afoementioned Robert Fripp played on a few Sylvian albums. I like the way alot of "shoegazer" bands like Ride and Curve create a wash of guitar. It can almost play the part of texturizing like keyboards, but can be powerful if it has presence in the music. I'd also include some of Yo La Tengo's stuff- live in Philly a few years back, he came out on stage at the start of the show and played a chord, then walked around the stage until he got a certain feedback. then kept mobving around his guitar to change the sound until he laid it down in a certain spot, rotated it a little, then just let this distored-echo-flange sound wash the crowd while he started playing tympanu (sp?) and the rest of the band began to jam. awesome. as for equipment, I'd suggest a fuzzy distortion pedal, a noisy, low-cost flange, and somehthing with echo, reverb, or delay. you don't need to use presets- tweak everything out, beyond where it sounds like music, then pull things back or add to it until you get the sound you want. match the delay or flange or vibrator or whatever to the rhythm as you feel the jam. experiment with nesting delay into a very slow flange, whatever. putting a stereo chorus overtop can add crazy presence. have fun!

[KenElevenShadows]

I saw Yo La Tengo in a record store! Wahooo! The guitarist is really good. For whatever it's worth, he was using an Echoplex (the actual thing, you know, with the tape...) and was getting some beautiful sounds from it. That'd be better than the delays I am using (Dan Echo, Boss delay). Better tone. They're expensive, though...

[offramp]

My echoplex works great. I do need to go through it and upgrade some caps and such, but otherwise it's nice and ethereal. Lizard, no I don't have the footboard. I've come close to getting one on more than one occasion, but ultimately I'm okay with the knobs and stuff for now. As for the software...well, I've NEVER installed it or had the inclination to. For me, the POD did exactly what I needed it to: put a bunch of amps and sounds in a supremely portable unit. To add a computer into the fold is just asking for a hemerroid...as well, I don't need to stare at a screen any more than I do already.

[BP3]

I almost forgot - Daniel Lanois.

[OctaveDr]

http://www.loopers-delight.com/loop.html

[The Bear Jew]

Other neat things to try... Any battery-operated gizmo with a motor in it (portable razors, portable massagers, little tape recorders, rechargable portable drills, etc) will make noises through your pick-ups if you turn them on and hold them over your guitar. Depending on the size of the motor in the device and the freshness of the battery, you'll get whirring noises in different keys. Try mixing these noises together, put effects on them, volume swells, etc. Neat "pad-like" sounds ensue. Also, remote controls (TV, radio, etc) will make "zappy" noises through your pick-ups.

[Hanshananigan]

[quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b]I saw Yo La Tengo in a record store! Wahooo! The guitarist is really good. For whatever it's worth, he was using an Echoplex (the actual thing, you know, with the tape...) and was getting some beautiful sounds from it. That'd be better than the delays I am using (Dan Echo, Boss delay). Better tone. They're expensive, though...[/b][/quote]it's worth a lot- thanks! oh yeah, I don't think those Roland guitar-synth gizmos have been mentioned yet- I've seen some local bands getting good sounds. kinda seems like cheating to me, though!

[offramp]

Naaaah...Roland guitar synths are just simply MORE textures. They're cheating only if you use them to play voices that are meant to duplicate known sounds; they're textural if you programme sounds that emulate things like shimmering clouds or low-frequency batfarts.

[Botch.]

"Low Frequency Batfarts" would be a great name for a rock band. :)