calling all floyd rose experts!

[PeeMonkey]

I have decided to get a jackson soloist after playing one and falling in love with it. However, I have not gone through with the purchase yet and I'm still trying to find a pre fender buyout jackson to test out. Hopefully I can find one on ebay or something.

 

However, ive had bad experiences with floyd rose bridges and need some opinions/help with them.

 

If I have it setup to a particular tuning and then change the tunings constantly will it ruin how well it stays in tune. Also when changing strings, how do I do it so I dont have to get it re-setup again, I remember breaking a string before on a cheapo guitar that had with a floyd rose and then the whole thing would just ruin the height of the bridge.

 

Thanks

[PeeMonkey]

hmm i just looked at the offical site and a few guides, man are those complicated, but I guess I'll have to learn and become efficient at it.

[J. Robert Rennix]

With a Floyd Rose style tremolo you are basically trying to balance the opposing forces of string tension and spring tension. If you drastically change tunings, you will alter the set up of your tremolo. So, how much is drastic? Well, keep in mind that changing your tuning will always alter your intonation and your action (i.e. your set up), even on a fixed bridge guitar. Using a Floyd Rose trem just adds one more (very painful) variable to the equation. On a fixed bridge guitar, switching from standard E tuning to drop D might require an adjustment to your 6th string saddle for perfect intonation. The same is also true for a Floyd Rose guitar, but you might also need to adjust your spring tension on your tremolo to keep the trem perfectly "floated". Typically, switching from standard E to drop D doesn't produce noticable differences in intonation or action, but a larger change (e.g. standard to half flat or whole flat or DADGAD, etc.) certainly will require a new set up. People hate Floyd Roses, because the setups often require several iterations of #1. adjusting the saddles to set intonation, #2. setting the spring tension to float the trem, #3. repeat.

[Squ]

If you have a floyd rose, you're basically stuck to one tuning. I have a floyd equipped guitar, and it will forever be in standard tuning with 10 gauge strings. This is just how it works. Since the bridge is floating, every string is supersensitive to what's happening with the other strings.

 

For example, play the low E and let it ring, then do some wicked bend on the high e (you don't have to pick the high e, just bend it) and listen to the low E's pitch change. It will change a lot.

 

Also, if you're playing a show and you pop a string while using a floyd, the rest of the strings become hopelessly out of tune, so you'd best just stop playing or divebomb and change guitars.

 

It's fun indeed, but one floyd guitar is all I need. ...for now at least.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Yeah, you really can't expect anything but headaches trying to use a Floyd Rose equipped axe for multiple tunings; at the very least, tuning-changes couldn't be on-the-fly at all, it'd be a set-up adjustment pain in the @$$. Even if you have the Floyd set flat against the body- not "floating", no up-trem travel allowed at all- you'd still have the limited range of the fine-tuners to contend with, or unlocking and relocking the locking-nut string-clamp...

[caprae]

agreed - pick a tuning and stick to it. My son's Ibanez (which is for sale, by the way) has a similar style locking trem. You want to change the strings one at a time. i've even read that some stretch the string before changing the next. He has 12's on it and has it way downtuned to something whacky. But he likes it that way.

[Warthog]

I had a Kramer with a Floyd Rose and hated it...

[The Geoff]

Spawn of the Devil!!!!

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

 

G.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

Spawn of the Devil!!!!

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

 

G.

Thou rangst?

[caprae]

They are a bear to set up, but I really like the fine tuning knobs and that they generally stay in tune better than regular trems AND you can really rock them - way down low to way up high. Its kind of fun to watch those strings get sucked tight to the pickups when my son dive bombs his.

 

What they point out at most guitar stores is you are toast if you break a string. As with any kind of floating trem, all strings will be thrown out of tune. But there has to be reason that guys like Satriani and Vai use these things...

[skipclone 1]

I think they`re a blast for music that allows room for 900 pound gorilla guitar. But I have a Floyd-equipped Charvel, I was unlocking the string clamps and one of the little nuts that holds the clamp down got loosened too far and fell down somewhere. I couldn`t find it. Since then I went to one guitar shop and asked if they have a spare nut sitting around somewhere. They said, no but don`t worry, you can just replace the whole assembly.

Excuse me? I`m going to need a $50+ replacement bill because of a 50 cent part? might I suggest a two-word exclamation that would be of interest to a wanton female? I went to another place and the tech said, no I don`t have an extra nut but let me fix up something for you. So he filed down a little bit of metal that would fit the locking clamp and screwed it in while I looked on dubiously. then he said, there, that should work as long as you don`t take the strings off.

Like, ever?

I managed to find a pack of spare nuts at a place in Tokyo and went to yet a third shop during summer break, where the guy looked at the nut, placed it over the clamp and said, I don`t know, this looks like the wrong size...

I mean, either Floyd or the guys at the the guitar shops are freakin idiots-I`m trying to avoid name-calling here but it`s kinda difficult. So as of this moment I still haven`t found a stupid nut.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Skip- there've been a lot of diferent size parts in Floyd Rose assemblies over the years, metric and English, original and licensed-copies, etc. etc. etc....

 

If you can determine which size you need, you (or a guit-shop dealer) can get Floyd Rose spare-parts for most (if not all) from various places, including Stewart-MacDonald. If I understand which specific part you're missing, I think that one size fits most of 'em.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Floyd Rose Locking Nut & Parts

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Floyd Rose Locking Tremolo & Parts

[PeeMonkey]

haha yea, same thing happened to my nut on my first guitar with a floyd rose, i ended up finding it when i sold it off

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

Skip- there've been a lot of diferent size parts in Floyd Rose assemblies over the years, metric and English, original and licensed-copies, etc. etc. etc....

 

If you can determine which size you need, you (or a guit-shop dealer) can get Floyd Rose spare-parts for most (if not all) from various places, including Stewart-MacDonald. If I understand which specific part you're missing, I think that one size fits most of 'em.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Floyd Rose Locking Nut & Parts

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon2.gif Floyd Rose Locking Tremolo & Parts

Hi Caevan

Thanks mon-I have to be off to a rehearsal soon but I`ll look at those sites. So far the only ones I`ve found online look like the same ones the third guy said were the wrong size.

I mean, I should`t have lost the nut. I made the first mistake. If I had known what I would be facing I would have attatched a beeper to it, or something.

[The Geoff]

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

Spawn of the Devil!!!!

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

 

G.

Thou rangst?

Not really, but I've played, over the years, several guitars, otherwise identical, except that one has FR and the other was stoptail/standard, and to *my* ears, the non-FR always sounded better. The FR seems to be a tone-killer for me.

 

G.

[skipclone 1]

The guitar I mentioned was going to be discontinued so I got a good deal on it. However that makes it more difficult to check the parts information. I don`t think-I`m sure I can find the right size somewhere but I can`t help thinking about a telephone I bought, the battery pack crapped out so I went to the store. And another. And another-no one had the right batteries. Finally I called the catalog company I got it from and the guy said, `um, yeah. That model`s been discontinued sir.` `Well that`s okay, I don`t need a new phone, just tell me where I can get a battery pack for the handset.`

`Um, yeah. Well that model`s been discontinued sir.` After a pause I said something like, `Is there something wrong with the phone cause I don`t think-oh now wait a minute don`t even tell me they stopped making the BATTERY TOO? How the hell am I supposed to operate the thing?`

`Well you could look it up on ebatts.` Well they stopped making the battery, ebatts isn`t going to have it. So I still have a speakerphone with a perfectly good handset that I can`t use. I really hope that doesn`t happen with the FR part.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

Spawn of the Devil!!!!

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

 

G.

Thou rangst?

Not really, but I've played, over the years, several guitars, otherwise identical, except that one has FR and the other was stoptail/standard, and to *my* ears, the non-FR always sounded better. The FR seems to be a tone-killer for me.

 

G.

Words of wisdom! it sure is Geoff!

[Gabriel E.]

The problems listed above will exist with ANY floating trem guitar. You can float the trem on a vintage strat (Ywingie does this) and you have to stick to one tuning and can't break strings without the guitar becoming unplayable. Has nothing tro do with whether the trem is locking/non-locking, etc.

 

The choice is really between a floating trem or a trem that sits flat on the body. The Van Halen sig. guitars produced by Ernie Ball and Peavey have Floyds that sit flat on the body. You can't pull up with the bar but you can break a string, change tunings, etc. without everything going to hell.

[J. Robert Rennix]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

The problems listed above will exist with ANY floating trem guitar. You can float the trem on a vintage strat (Ywingie does this) and you have to stick to one tuning and can't break strings without the guitar becoming unplayable. Has nothing tro do with whether the trem is locking/non-locking, etc.

 

The choice is really between a floating trem or a trem that sits flat on the body. The Van Halen sig. guitars produced by Ernie Ball and Peavey have Floyds that sit flat on the body. You can't pull up with the bar but you can break a string, change tunings, etc. without everything going to hell.

'Tis true. I float the two-point tremolo on my G&L Legacy and it is a minor pain in the butt to change tunings. If I'm changing from standard to half flat, I usually need to tune each string about three times before the whole rig stays in tune. I set up my trem so that it floats perfectly at half-flat, therefore it still floats in standard tuning or whole-flat. You can change tunings with a floating trem, it just takes tons of patience.

[The Geoff]

Originally posted by jrob:

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

The problems listed above will exist with ANY floating trem guitar. You can float the trem on a vintage strat (Ywingie does this) and you have to stick to one tuning and can't break strings without the guitar becoming unplayable. Has nothing tro do with whether the trem is locking/non-locking, etc.

 

The choice is really between a floating trem or a trem that sits flat on the body. The Van Halen sig. guitars produced by Ernie Ball and Peavey have Floyds that sit flat on the body. You can't pull up with the bar but you can break a string, change tunings, etc. without everything going to hell.

'Tis true. I float the two-point tremolo on my G&L Legacy and it is a minor pain in the butt to change tunings. If I'm changing from standard to half flat, I usually need to tune each string about three times before the whole rig stays in tune. I set up my trem so that it floats perfectly at half-flat, therefore it still floats in standard tuning or whole-flat. You can change tunings with a floating trem, it just takes tons of patience.

You know, if you think about the physics involved - string tension countering the spring tension et al, then it couldn't be anything other than difficult.

 

The trem on my Frankenstrat is blocked and my other two don't gave one.

 

The only time I *really* used one was back in the 60s/70s when I played a lot of Shadows covers and had to sound like Hank Marvin (floating trem).

 

I play them using finger vibrato now.

 

G.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

"The choice is really between a floating trem or a trem that sits flat on the body. The Van Halen sig. guitars produced by Ernie Ball and Peavey have Floyds that sit flat on the body. You can't pull up with the bar but you can break a string, change tunings, etc. without everything going to hell."

Again, though, those fine-tuners at the bridge have a pretty limited range, so you may have to unlock the locking-nut to change to many alternate tunings (then using the tuners at the headstock). And then re-lock it. And reverse and repeat the whole process again and again...

 

For best real-life use, you want those fine-tuners to be at about half-way when the guitar's in perfect tune, so that you've got the ability to fine-tune up or down in pitch if a string or two go sharp or flat on you under stage-lights, cold drafts, a sudden bump into the singer, etc....

 

If you're relying on them for changing the tuning, the fine-tuners will be near or at the extremes of their little range, and you're losing some of that safety-net...

 

I switched to a Wilkinson roller-nut when I used to use a Kahler fulcrum-style whammy equipped axe; it sure made any and all tuning moves a lot easier and simpler, and I was always able to keep the fine-tuners at half-mast in case I needed a little, well, fine-tuning on the fly...

[baronedo]

I personally don't like Floyd Rose trems for many reasons, some of which are stated. Many Floyd's come with guitars that have a nut lock, which is an additional pain for retuning, etc. With all the metal in a Floyd bridge, they can frequently produce a more trebly and thinner tone, which I do not like. I have come up with an alternative which I believe optimizes many of the benefits of a tremmed guitar and minimized the disadvantages of a Floyd as follows:

 

1. I use a more standard trem (i.e. Fender bridge on an American Standard Strat or Vintage bridge) as it allows for much easier string changing.

 

2. To Stabilize the trem I install a Tremsetter (see hipshotproducts.com). This $50 device replaces the center trem spring and acts like an adjustable shock absorber to stabilize a true return to zero position after tremming - this really works and minimizes tuning headaches. Note this allows easier string bending without out making other strings play out of tune during the bend. I hate Floyd's because they do not allow you to play very popular unison bends (i.e. a nice double stop technique where play the note on one string and simultaneous bend a note on an adjacent string to the same pitch). With a Floyd, bending the one string causes the adjacent unbent note/string to go horribly out of tune. This doesn't happen with my set up.

 

3. To further enhance tuning, I install locking Tuners (I've used both Sperzel and Schaller) and they cost about $60 to $70 for a set of six. This allows easy string tuning and string changing (no need for a locking nut.

 

4. Although this is optional, I install Fender LSR nuts on my strats. These support each string on a pair of dual mini ball bearings to prevent string binding in the nut during bending or trem work. Alternately, you can use a standard nut and keep it well lubed with powdered graphite.

 

With the small investment of about $110 for the Tremsetter and Locking Tuners, you can use your standard trem guitar and get many of the benefits of the Floyd without the headaches. If you want to also add an LSR nut, they cost about $25.

[HVE remarK]

Lancer seems to have the same views as i do.

I bought a rather ratty musicman axis (you have no idea how badly treated this guitar was, previously owned by a spoilt brat guitar had dents, dings, scratches and an inch wide burn on the body back)

 

after lots of TLC to the cosmetics I replaced the tuners with locking sperzels,nut with fender lsr nut, and fitted D-tuna to the floyd rose.

 

I dont have any tuning problems at all but then i dont tune this guitar diffrently. Istick to my les paul for diffrent tunings.