Early 70's Fender Twinw/ black face mod... how much $$$?

[MILLO]

I've been offered an early 70's Fender Twin Reverb w/ a black face mod for $600, and it includes footswitch. Is that a good offer?

 

I guess I'll go try it in the weekend.

 

Thanks.

[D. Fox]

Buy it. A high-powered, hand-wired tube amp with reverb and tremolo? Buy it. Sure, it's louder than sin, but assuming it's in decent cosmetic condition (and, you said its already been deloused with the blackface mod) again........buy it! It won't lose value, that's for sure.

[Caevan O’Shite]

That sounds plenty fair, if it's in good working order with good tubes and filter-capacitors. As long as you like the sound of it!

 

How extensive is the De-BS, I mean, "blackface" conversion from CBS, "mod"? What all was done? Ask!

[Tone Taster]

My friend, who is an elctronic engineer did it for 200 FRNS for me, but he is a friend.

 

Go to the next step, then put yellowjackets in it and jump the channels w/a stereo chorus

 

I want to rip the transformer out, though. The Twin Transformers suck.

[MILLO]

I want a loud, clean amp, but I wanted a head, not a combo! They don't make twin heads as far as I know,butone can find a few custom-made ones. That's what I'm after.

 

Caevan, I'll ask.

 

Like I said, I'll check it out, hopefully it won't lose any value if I buy it and determine it's not for me. In the meantime, I'll ask for the serial number. Will that give me a clue as to the year it was made?

 

Caputo, how do you determine if the trasformers suck? What other trasnformer can go in there? I assume changing that represents A LOT of $$$$.

 

For those of you who have one: Is this thing around 60-70 pounds?

[MILLO]

what happened here? triple post???!!!!

 

 

Here goes another question:

 

If I were to find a Twin-type Fender head (I know, good luck on that one), what type of speakers would you recommend? I was thinking of the typical Avatar 2x12 w/ a Vin 30 and a G12H30. Whatdya think?

[MILLO]

oh,and Caputo:

I remember you stating you thought the Fulltone FD2 did not sound good through a Twin. Well, that's the OD I have. I ordered a Zendrive but there's a 3-month waitlist on those things. Any recommendations/comments? Could you describe your impressions of the FD-2 through the Twin?

[baronedo]

Last year I was in the market for a new amp. It came down to a new Black face Twin Fender reissue model for about $1050 or a Fender Hot Rod Deville in 2x12 configuration for $649. After trying both amps extensively, I settled on the Hot Rod Deville. The Deville just sounded better to my ears and still had plenty of power (60W). The Twin is loud but is very hard to get to overdrive without causing deafness. The Deville also worked better with my pedals (a tubescreamer, Octavia, Crybaby wah, and Boss DD-6 digital delay). The upside of the Deville's design is that is has preamp out and power amp in jacks which also serve as an effect loop. This is important because delay pedals (my DD-6) sound much better when routed through the effects loop in lieu of running the pedal in line with the others before the amp input jack. The Twin does not have an effects loop.

[Caevan O’Shite]

If loud AND clean Fender-style tone is what you want, the Twin Reverb- "silverface" or not- is a major contender, pretty much unchallenged for a looong time, until some other amps (like the uncommon Fender "Custom" Dual Professional 2x12 combo, some "boutique" amps, etc.) came along.

 

Some Hiwatts and Oranges can be very loud and clean, but they're not the same. And a Vox AC100 was rare, and became very expensive! (They- and AC50's- sound glorious, though! Still not "Fender", though...)

 

If they did a good job on De-BS'ing it, and you like how it sounds, then it is probably a very good amp for you.

 

You could always have a head-style cabinet made (or build one yourself), and slide the chassis into it. If you do, you might want to have it a little taller than the usual Marshall-style, to leave some extra distance between the amplifier's circuits and the reverb-pan; sometimes runaway squealing feedback noises can be a problem if the reverb's springs and transducers are too close to the amp itself. (That's one major reason why so many heads never were designed with spring-reverb in them; especially the higher-gain styles.)

 

It's funny, Lee ("elwood") recently did the exact opposite of this: he restored a "brownface" Fender Pro Amp to a 1x15 combo-cabinet format, after it had been converted to a "head" decades ago...

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by MILLO:

oh,and Caputo:

Any recommendations/comments? /QB]

I tell ya, the OCD and the NADY TD-1 sound great.

I am not sure of your style, though. I needed BOTH a full crunch AND rhythm crunch

 

Originally posted by MILLO:

[QB]Could you describe your impressions of the FD-2 through the Twin?

With the compression on, it sounded like the clean amp and the dirt was on simultaneously.

 

W/the comp off, you heard the distortion only, but didn't get the sustain and harmonics. Works much better on a lower wattage amp w/the comp on.

 

That OCD is just plain sick. You'll get a full spectrum distortion replete w/ harmonics, sustain, and feedback.

 

I tell you what, IF YOU WANT LOUD AND CLEAN, I RECOMMEND (caps mistake, sorry) the Marshall JTM-45 reissue

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by MILLO:

Caputo, how do you determine if the trasformers suck? What other trasnformer can go in there? I assume changing that represents A LOT of $$$$.

It just seems like it is a bit brash and harsh at times.

 

I would love to see if a Matchless Transformer designed for theor 100 watter will work. Evidently Jameson is not stingy about revealing what transformers he uses - seems like he don't care.

[KHAN]

Originally posted by MILLO:

They don't make twin heads as far as I know,butone can find a few custom-made ones. That's what I'm after.

Dual Showman Reverb.

[Gabriel E.]

Originally posted by MILLO:

I want a loud, clean amp, but I wanted a head, not a combo! They don't make twin heads as far as I know,butone can find a few custom-made ones. That's what I'm after.

They sure do/did! It's called the Dual Showman Reverb and was available from 1969 to 1981. Same chassis and electronics, different wooden box. As with the Twin, the post-77 models are 135watt ultralinear.

 

And who said that Twin Reverb transformers suck? I've never heard that one before. How often do Twin Reverbs blow up? A whole lot less often than Marshalls!

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

 

And who said that Twin Reverb transformers suck? I've never heard that one before. How often do Twin Reverbs blow up? A whole lot less often than Marshalls!

Bro, that transformer has got to be the cause of that brashiness. Although quite reliable construction wise, i believe that if i put in one of those Matchless transformers, things would be alot more full and rounder

[MILLO]

...ok, I'll talk to the owner of the Twin offered, and schedule a try-out, and play it also w/ the FD2.

 

I'll also shop around for the Dual Showman...

 

Thanks a lot for all your help. If anyone feels like still commenting more, please feel free to do so.

[MILLO]

What are these jacks in the back of the Dual Showman? Reverb In and Reverb Out? What are they for? Is that just to connect/disconnect the reverb pan? Or is that some sort of old-school effects loop? Excuse the seemingly stupid question.

[Gabriel E.]

A harsh sound can be the result of many things:

 

-Tubes (easy to fix)

 

-Filter capacitors

 

-Coupling caps

 

-Speakers!!!

 

-the bias (easiest to fix)

 

Transformers would be the last on my list after any of these things. Even the later, maligned 135watt Ultralinear Twins had quality transformers.

 

I'm not saying that switching out the transformers with high-end handmade units won;t make a difference. I'm saying that there are other thing's that may be causing the problem and are a lot easier and less expensive to fix.

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

A harsh sound can be the result of many things:

 

-Tubes (easy to fix)

So does the harshness lie in the pre-amp tubes ?

 

I should probably go w/the AU's

 

-

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

Filter capacitors

Got new ones put in there. What filter caps are less harsh?

 

-

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

Coupling caps

-

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

Speakers!!!

I have pretty new Jensen 50W in there

 

-

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

the bias (easiest to fix)

 

Transformers would be the last on my list after any of these things. Even the later, maligned 135watt Ultralinear Twins had quality transformers.

I have a 1970 Twin

[MILLO]

Originally posted by Caputo:

My friend, who is an elctronic engineer did it for 200 FRNS for me, but he is a friend.

you mean the mod? How much does it usually go for?

[MILLO]

Also, if I get a head, what type of speakers will it go well with? The typical Celestion Vin30's, or are these a no-no for these amps?

[Tone Taster]

I'm not sure what the normal going rate is for the BF mod, but my buddy charged me 200 for the mod.

 

I am curious about Celestions w/ the head. I'm tellin' ya, the JTM-45 Marshall reissue has tons of clean headroom and sounds full, too. I would then gut it and make it point to point

[Tone Taster]

I tell ya, for 600, I would take it, but make sure it has no master volume. See if theyll take 500

[MILLO]

No comments on speakers for Dual Showman or Twin II heads?

 

I haven't heard from the Twin dude again! I wonder if he's backing off on his offer ...hope not.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Well, if you want a REAL clean and LOUD response, EV speakers in a Twin are a classic recipe. I can't for the life of me remember what the specific model was that used to be a somewhat popular option or upgrade on Mesa-Boogies and Fenders in the '70s and '80s (EVM-12 something-or-other? EVM12L?), but someone here'll know. Big, HEAVY magnets and cast-frames (not stamped). They were sometimes too loud for some folks, especially if they wanted some overdriven-speaker character in there- the EV's wouldn't give it up, and will actually make the output-section of a tube-amp run cleaner due to EMF yada yada yada... Anyways, lots of tight, tight lows and clear mids and present highs, a great sound, especially for Country or Jazz.

 

Your Celestion-recipe using two different models (Vintage 30 & G12H30) would probably sound very good, too. Or maybe even just two G12H30's.

 

And then there's Jensens, you probably couldn't go wrong there.

 

Or if you can get a pair, maybe some Kendrick "Blackframe" 12's? They currently have a "Kendrick 12", but I'm unsure if it's the same as their "Blackframe" that they used to carry, minus the black color... ?? Probably a particularly good speaker for a Twin, either way, epsecially if your cab is open or kinda semi-open backed...

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

Well, if you want a REAL clean and LOUD response, EV speakers in a Twin are a classic recipe. I can't for the life of me remember what the specific model was that used to be a somewhat popular option or upgrade on Mesa-Boogies and Fenders in the '70s and '80s (EVM-12 something-or-other? EVM12L?), but someone here'll know. Big, HEAVY magnets and cast-frames (not stamped). They were sometimes too loud for some folks, especially if they wanted some overdriven-speaker character in there- the EV's wouldn't give it up, and will actually make the output-section of a tube-amp run cleaner due to EMF yada yada yada... Anyways, lots of tight, tight lows and clear mids and present highs, a great sound, especially for Country or Jazz.

 

Your Celestion-recipe using two different models (Vintage 30 & G12H30) would probably sound very good, too. Or maybe even just two G12H30's.

 

And then there's Jensens, you probably couldn't go wrong there.

 

Or if you can get a pair, maybe some Kendrick "Blackframe" 12's? They currently have a "Kendrick 12", but I'm unsure if it's the same as their "Blackframe" that they used to carry, minus the black color... ?? Probably a particularly good speaker for a Twin, either way, epsecially if your cab is open or kinda semi-open backed...

"'70s and '80s (EVM-12 something-or-other? EVM12L?), but someone here'll know. Big, HEAVY magnets and cast-frames (not stamped)."

The white SRO's I had them in a Twin and it was absolutly bone-crushing!!

[MILLO]

So, you guys think I'll have smooth OD sounds from the EVM and Jensens, apart from the really clean tones? I wouldn't overdrive the amp, just using apedal (Fulltone FD2, Hermida Zendrive that still hasn't arrived.)

[Tone Taster]

Those EV 12" ARE Like 200W speakers. No chance of that sucker overdriving

[MILLO]

Well, that 70's Twin guy never called/e-mailed...

 

so switch to plan B: a Rivera-era Fender Twin Reverb II head, with footswitch. I plan to bargain, but what do you think is a fair price for both sides (if it is in good cosmetic and working condition)? I'll go try it on Monday morning.

 

Speaker suggestions still the same? I think I'll go the Avatar 2x12 cab route if I get this head, then.

[MILLO]

EVM-12L's are discontinued... and they are expensive.. I'll keep looking...

[Caevan O’Shite]

(Repeat-peat-peat-peated fromma previous post)

 

Your Celestion-recipe using two different models (Vintage 30 & G12H30) would probably sound very good, too. Or maybe even just two G12H30's.

 

And then there's Jensens, you probably couldn't go wrong there.

 

Or if you can get a pair, maybe some Kendrick "Blackframe" 12's? They currently have a "Kendrick 12" (listed on their 'site), but I'm unsure if it's the same as their "Blackframe" that they used to carry, minus the black color... ?? Probably a particularly good speaker for a Twin, either way, epsecially if your cab is open or kinda semi-open backed...