drand48a

Yeah, latency can be an issue. On keyboards, I can't bear more than 20 ms (though it depends on the patch, string sounds could be way higher, if I ever used them.) 20 ms is really high latency, so I'm pretty tolerant. These days I'm always well under that; it was more of an issue 20 years ago. Plus, doing keyboards is easier for the hardware because it's MIDI-in to audio out, not audio-in to audio-out. I didn't notice any latency on the Fender Floor. I've never tested my tolerance on guitar. I suspect I'm less tolerant. I might be more tolerant on keyboards because a real piano has a latency of sorts, so I'm used to it, and I don't have 100's of hours playing Clav or a real Hammond. My biggest issue with the Floor is, well, it's huge (compared to what I was originally thinking.) The original idea was something I could tuck into my usual kit bag, grab my G&L, and use it or not. Oh well. So maybe I'll revisit this topic sometime in the future. For now, though, a cheap option was nice to find, albeit a clunky one.

The Mustang Floor arrived today and I got to spend some quality time checking it out. It's a bigger unit than I wanted (I'll have to get a bigger gear bag) but otherwise it's great. I was able to figure out how to use it without reading the manual and have set up a few presets. Sounds great through the QSC K8.2 speakers. I'm drawn to the Twin & Princeton amps. I'll continue to use my Tube Screamer in front, so I can use the "Stomp" for other features (currently have it set up for moderate compression.) The pitch shift doubler is horrid. Maybe I need more time to figure it out, but I couldn't get anything near what I wanted from it. But the triangle chorus with almost the least amount of modulation and almost slowest cycle time provides the stereo image I like: very little coloration, just spreads the sound out nicely. When I want it to. The pedal so far seems useless because the latency is too high, and the throw is super short. Either failing might be tolerable but with both, I can't control what I'm doing at all. However, I may find a use for it. And I like that you can set it to globally always do the same thing, or else have it set by each preset. Another bonus: a while back I did some looping, using my laptop. I kept running into the issue that I didn't have enough footswitches to control it the way I wanted. I think I'll be able to use this as MIDI footswitches. Then I'll have to face the bigger problem, which is not making mistakes when I'm laying down the loop. Ugh! A muff is bad enough, and just gets worse every time you hear it! (I might just not really be cut out for looping. It's a skill that takes a lot of effort to master.) With shipping and sales tax it was $150. The going prices seemed to be in the $180-200 range.

Yeah, great comparison, thanks for sharing. Too bad he had some sort of compressor engaged. You can definitely hear it kicking in after about 1/2 second, at several levels. But ignoring that you can still get a real good idea. If I were choosing between the two, I'd go for the Boss. I've had plenty of Roland gear over the decades and had no issues with any of it. I'd be satisfied with the Strymon too. But I found a used Mustang Floor in VG condition at Reverb.com for $130 so I jumped on it (it had just listed & the other listings were considerably higher, so I didn't pause to consider.) I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for making me aware of all of these! The Floor is really bigger than what I wanted, but I'm a cheapskate and I couldn't resist a bargain. I don't let that trigger go off very often.

Yeah, too bad they don't package that circuit. I figured Line 6 was my most likely avenue, but wanted to hear from folks who actually use it. Thanks -- I'll definitely look into the Iridium. Sounds like a perfect match, so far. Just one version, or are there updates over the years? Seems to me I've heard of that before. (I'm familiar with Strymon, mostly because they have an excellent page on expression pedal jack wiring, including how to turn a volume pedal into an expression pedal.) Right, tone is in the hands. Yours more than mine, probably! 😉 I remember a friend from online collaborations got great tone and everyone always asked about his gear, his gear, his gear. I got fed up and had to say, "He gets his tone from the way he uses his hands. Hear him squeezing out those subtle harmonics? That's not the gear!" He thanked me for that later. Cool, looks very interesting! I've never actually played an AC30; I'd love to check it out. Heck, I've never even SEEN one. Have I been living under a rock? Thanks. I'm not likely to use the Marshall mode, just not my style (I tried and failed!) I used to have the ART and used it a lot, but now I have a Rolls DB24 stereo DI, which I've used almost every feature on at one time or another and I really like. But that puts me in mind that I can inject stereo there too for self sound test, so less important to have an aux in on the amp, for self-test after setup.

Thanks! That's it! (or, one of them ...) Looks like it's still available, at $329. https://www.sustainiac.com/stomp.htm#pricing Plus they have various other installation models. One involves replacing a Strat neck pickup with their transducer: No thanks, that's the one I almost always use!

Please recommend an inexpensive (hopefully <$300, ideally even less) hardware amp sim for a keyboard player doubling on guitar. What I want is the tone of a tube blues amp. Normally I play a small tube amp, set so that at 3/4 volume on the guitar I'm just where the amp begins to break, with a nice smooth break curve, so I have a fairly clean rhythm tone (but not quite country-telecaster clean) and can dig in a bit to get a little oomph. I use a Tube Screamer with moderate level and drive to pump up for leads. Otherwise, I don't use much in the way of FX. I mic the amp and apply subtle stereo imaging. I haven't decided whether I want tabletop or pedal. I want hardware because this is for live use and I want to minimize setup. For table-top (it'd be on my keyboard) I'd want a stereo line in. Currently both my keyboards have aux in so I can daisy-chain and gig without a mixer. Yes, I understand this adds noise, but I know how to manage that, and the amp sim would be last in line and usually turned down. It's nice to be able to plug my phone (or whatever) output into the line in to check sound after setup. I normally use my own small PA, with a pair of QSC K8.2's. I play small gigs and with friends just for fun, pro-am level. I had a Digitech Genesis 3 about 20 years ago. It worked, but never sounded very authentic. It's long gone, and I'm hoping I can do considerably better now. (But I really did like the Genesis's "warp" knob, so I could set up a clean tone and a driven tone, and dial between them for the base level to suit the location or the gig.) When I did a side-by-side with my Blues Deluxe it was sad.

Forgive the necro-post, but I remember seeing a device being sold that was a transducer clipped to the headstock, to help produce real acoustic feedback, suitable for use when recording quietly, like using headphones and an amp sim. But I can't find it now. 😞 I really wanted to try it sometime. Seems to me it'd be a fun DIY project.

My folks were typical depression conservatives, and so had a lot of advice that was good for them but didn't apply to me. But they did have one great bit of great advice (among many others of course): It's really good advice. If you're made to be an artist, then go for it, but keep in mind the many sacrifices you'll make. But as mentioned above, do what you love and you'll never work a day. (Which of course isn't quite true because ANY job involves stuff you gotta do but would rather not. But the point stands.) In school, even though I liked math & physics, after banging my head on a problem for an hour, I needed to be tied to the chair. But for computer problems, we'd all start around 10PM at the computer center (when jobs ran fast). Around 4AM my program would be working and I was unaware of the passing time. So, pretty clear what I should do for a living! (That, plus, a mediocre engineer can do just fine. A mediocre pro musician -- which is about what I'd have been, at best -- has a pretty rough row to hoe.) In any case, thank goodness for modern technology that lets me carry a 100-lb total rig that has more & better sounds than back when I hauled around over 400 lbs and needed help. 2 keyboards, two small powered speakers, stand, and gear bag, which I can manage alone in two trips. And I'm a gear-head. I could trim it to one keyboard, one monitor, stand and gig bag and probably nobody would notice a difference but me. (That is what I use for short gigs & rehearsals.)

I didn't know that Logic had Autosample -- that's great! You should definitely sample your SV2. And if you do much recording, not just the Rhodes, but any sounds that you often do recording with. A good rule of thumb is sample minor 3rds (4 samples/octave) and start out with say 6 velocity layers. Check results and adjust for your taste and based on how much the instrument's timbre changes with velocity. If Logic Autosampler supports velocity crossfade, try that -- it works great for pianos but sometimes not so great for Rhodes (because higher velocity low notes tend to go sharp so you get phasing.) Turn off all FX (ESPECIALLY reverb!) unless you want the effect baked into the samples. For the first round, while you're experimenting, try just 3 or 4 velocity layers and 3 samples/octave (major 3rds), which reduces the time quite a bit. I routinely sample all of my keyboards' bread-and-butter sounds for use in recording. Using a sampleset rather than the actual instrument is very handy when doing MIDI editing. If you haven't unloaded from your last gig but you want to do a little tweaking of a part, no worries. The samples generally don't sound as good as the instrument, especially for keyboards with modeled pianos, half-damping, string resonance, etc. So, I'll often record with the real keyboard but the swap in the sampled instrument while I build the song and/or do MIDI editing. Then plug the keyboard in for final rendering, if I feel like it. For most pop music I hardly hear a difference. For a classical solo piece (which I wish I could do!) it would matter more. Anyway, if you build up a nice library of your favorite patches as sample sets, you'll find you use them a lot. And if you ever get rid of the keyboard, you still can edit the MIDI and remix, using the sample sets. Of course, this only works for patches that sample well. Not so great for Hammond, etc. Add me to the list of people who'd love Purgatory Creek but don't want to bother with Kontakt.

A Y-cable is a bad idea for a number of reasons. I suspect in the OP's case, one keyboard is set to normally-open and the other to normally-closed. Otherwise, it would have seemed to work, but still a really bad idea, because not only does it connect the grounds of the two keyboards, it connects the power of the two keyboards together. With limiting resistors, of course, so not immediately fatal, but sheesh. Not what they're intended to do. We have enough issues with ground loops to add another ground loop AND a power loop to boot. In any case, you need to know the "sense" (often mislabeled "polarity") for the two keyboards. It can be normally open or normally closed. Many keyboards allow you to configure it. Some keyboards "figure it out" but for NC, it only works if you plug the pedal in in before powering up. I like J-Dan's idea, but today's pedals aren't as easy to modify. I just opened up my On-Stage pedal (with a "polarity" switch) and I see that unlike the leaf spring from the bad ol' days (which would be easy to replace), this has the kind with the little black disks in the rubber sleeves (just like keyboard action contacts.) Those wouldn't be easy to replace. BUT -- if you're just lucky enough that one keyboard can be in "normally open" mode and the other in "normally closed" mode, then you can very easily rewire this pedal to have two cables. Post back if you want the details. It's the On Stage KS100 sustain pedal; cheap and available anywhere. Those old leaf springs would eventually break; I've fixed a few so glad to see they're now history. I can't say whether the newer ones are more reliable, though. I think they're just not guaranteed to fail, like the leaf springs.

According to this, they can all be removed with acetone. But for best results I'd need to scuff the original finish, so it's not exactly reversible. I might try it without scuffing.

Cross-posting:

That's an idea, thanks! Not quite the look I'm going for, but definitely something to consider.

Hey, I just checked, and a cheap US Stands tripod boom stand shaft fits in the bracket, so all you'd need to do is cannibalize one (hack the bottom off so it slides out of the tripod) and attach (glue?) a couple blocks on the sides (so it fits more snugly in the bracket) and then use anything to keep it from falling through (which could be the top part of the blocks, just make them an upside-down L shape.) Bingo: mic stand for the keyboard stand, always in the same spot. Admittedly not in the perfect spot, but it'd probably work, and wouldn't ever fall over.

For anyone considering ordering the 18881 tier, consider getting the 18882 instead. The main difference is that it has a hole at the back where you can attach the next tier, or whatever. The 18880 is the best stand ever, for reasons already stated above, plus ease of minor mods to accommodate minor variations like getting tiers closer together (which I did on my first one.) When I lost my first one, I got another. But this time, rather than getting the 18881 tier, I got the 18882 tier, which is intended as a middle tier. Instead, I made some wooden speaker tables that I use with small monitors (which I've used both at home and on stage). You could also easily fudge up a mic stand to fit in it.

This is very important and often overlooked. Be sure you read and understand what TimWat said. No kidding. Most PA amps are fine down to 4 ohms (two speakers.) Better ones work down to 2 ohms (4 speakers). Breaking this rule degrades sound quality and can damage the amp. (No wonder it's crappy!) Post the amp's model and we might be able to help you with specs. Also double-check that the speakers are 8 ohms (most are, but not all.)

I have a new pair of powered speakers I use for keyboards, and I want to protect them (and my walls) from scuffs. I previously used JBL floor monitors, which were covered in a durable felt, which really worked great. I can't seem to find that material available anywhere, especially not self-adhesive, and I don't want to mess with adhesive spray. (I'd rather not glue myself to a wall, for example.) The best I can find is 1/16" felt, like this: https://www.amazon.com/ROLL-THICK-SELF-ADHESIVE-PROTECTIVE/dp/B00BCQS67U/ Of course, it'll be tricky to cover the corners, which are the parts that take (and give) the most abuse. Has anyone tried this and have any advice, especially a better (thicker) material? 1/16" seems a bit thin.

Free return shipping? Not sure how they could profit that way.

The CP4 does have release samples (a bit too loud, frankly.) But yeah, it should have at least one alternate pickup selection. I've only used mine as master controller (usually just the CP4 plus laptop or CP4 plus Electro.) The CP4 works great with external gear for splits and layering, taking advantage of the CP4's built-in split and layer featured plus its "master keyboard" controls. However, for zones, it has one really stupid limitation: you can set up a zone on the master keyboard (for playing an external sound) but you can't mute the internal sound for that zone. BadMister thinks that a zone mute feature would violate the CP4's architecture, and nobody needs it anyway because you can control all that externally. (sheesh.) Get your CP4 fixed. It's broken. But if you can't or won't get it fixed, then just get one of those little stubby USB thumb drives and save your setup to USB and reload it every time you power on. (I bet it uses flash memory, not a battery, so finding a battery to replace wouldn't help. Just guessing, but battery backup for nonvolatile storage went the way of the dinosaur decades ago, thanks to cheap flash memory.) Once a zombie, always a zombie? Anyway, I lost all my gear a few years back, and replaced the CP4 immediately (well, right after classical guitar but that was a super lucky find on CL, exactly what I was looking for and cheap too.) When I checked out the CP88, I don't recall what, but it was missing some feature or other, I think in the controls, that made it a non-starter. The CP4s biggest weakness is its organs. Whoever set them up had no clue. The sound engine on the CP4 could have supported a half-decent imitation, but instead it has real crap. And by "half-decent", I mean by ROMpler standards, not modeller standards. Baking percussion into (most of) the samples is just the start of the many failures. Failing to include a basic 88800000 or similar sound is another. The list goes on and on. They were designed to sound cool on the showroom floor, not be useful for gigging musicians. The standouts are the epianos and pianos, which I love. I mostly use the CFX, but I really like the CF and S6 depending on what I'm doing. Sadly, the S6 samples have a nasty ring for one zone in the low notes. I actually resampled the S6, skipped that one bad sample and mapped the adjacent zones, and so if I want to play the S6 I play it as a sample set. Which loses the string resonance and pedal-up resonance and half-damping, all features that really help add to the CP4's realism. Whoever did the Rhodes setup was a true believer; there is a wide variety of different Rhodes. IMHO they names don't always really match up to the models they're supposed to be (though probably were really sampled from) but they cover a pretty wide range from nice bell tone to honker, and for any given patch, the dynamics are great making for a single patch working well for both rhythm and solo use. The Wurlies are great too. And while it has only one clav, it's a pretty darn good one-size-fits-all clav (if you can get over the piano action.) Nord's are better, but I think mostly because you can dial in exactly what you want. I really like the CP4's action. I prefer it to my 1892 Steinway B, despite the B's action being remarkably good for that vintage of piano (and well-maintained before I bought it.) Of course, action is a matter of preference. But I never found a stage piano with better action. (I never got a chance to try the Kawai some folks rave about, though.) I admit I'm not fussy about action; it's not so much "how does it feel" but rather "what can I do," and anything I can do, I can do on the CP4. (On the B, I have problems when playing some fast runs where certain notes have to be light; it's "touchy" at in the p to ppp range and I'm more likely to get nothing. Probably my lack of skill.) I'm 65 and no weightlifter (!), but I can manage its weight. I use the Gator soft case (I think it's the 73-key version.) The CP4 fits very snugly, which is ideal. This just barely fits behind the driver seat in my Prius. Wheels wouldn't fit, and frankly I wouldn't use them anyway. The hardest part is getting it in and out of the car, but that's manageable. Carrying it with the strap is fine. The diciest part is sometimes I have to pick it up and then take a big step up onto or down off of a stage, and my balance isn't great. I suspect that in 10 years, I'll be using a lighter piano and keep the CP4 at home. (Yeah, I tend to keep gear for a long time.) Anyway, the sun has set on the CP4, but IMHO it's still a contender, if you find a used one. Also, it seems very rugged, and the only parts likely to break off are the knobs on the 5-band EQ at the right end of the panel. (I have a love-hate relationship with those. Hate because I often forget to reset them when I start, and they sometimes get moved when I carry it. Love because it's a real easy way to quickly adjust for the room.)

Sadly, it seems I'll only be able to audition the QSC and JBL speakers. GC and Sam Ash don't carry the others, not even the Altos. Sigh. Thanks for pointing out the DXR rather than DBR -- the DXR looks like a better contender (but since I can't audition them ...) I suppose I could order the others and send back whichever ones lose the shootout. That means an extra 5-hour round-trip drive to return them, but ... ah well.

Hey, I'm back. I put speakers on the back burner for a while but I'll have a chance to hit the big box stores soon, so I can audition a few. Sam Ash & GC. Regarding impedance matching: that's important for dynamic mics, which have low signal levels. Matching impedance maximizes power transfer which maximizes S/N ratio. Plugging anything but a dynamic mic, and impedance matching doesn't provide anything detectable to the ears (or probably even to test equipment.) Regarding old JBL Eon 500's, a friend used to have some big ones (15" IIRC). This was about 10 years ago, and they weren't new. IMHO his Hammond clone sounded great through them, and his RD700 sounded good enough. But a modern powered speaker will sound obviously better, especially for piano. Regarding the QSC's input circuit, thanks for the schematic and specs. I can't read the schematics well enough but the specs are clear. Long ago, the relatively low impedance (2260 Ohms) might cause some line outputs to fail. These days, you can generally even short them and they don't fail (but they don't sound good! or at all ...) No idea how much this might compromise the sound, but my guess is, not much if at all. Ideally, mic inputs are about 600 ohms. I'd avoid plugging a line output into that. Line outputs used to be rated with "minimum load impedance" or "maximum load impedance" which oddly enough mean the same thing, and for most of them, it was 5K or 10K. These days you never see that rating, so must not be important anymore, so I wouldn't worry about 2K or higher. I'll let you know what speakers I end up checking out and how the sound. Old ears means I won't be splitting hairs on audiophile quality stuff -- can't hear much past 8K anymore. But I can definitely hear the suck of for example a Behringer.

Plugging a line output into the mic input would definitely be a bad idea. I'd bet that mic input is lo-Z, which is not good for line outputs. The QSC's probably have 10K or 20K ohm inputs, and "mic" mode is just more gain. That's not ideal for mikes, but would work. I would expect to not get enough level out of the ZXA1's if plugging a -10dBV line output into it (assuming they're +4DBu) -- you lose about 12 dB and there's only 6dB of gain. I would not expect to have any problems when plugging a +4 dBu line output into it. If there is an issue there, then it's just not designed properly, or it's not rated properly. IIRC, the Electro is a -10dBV output. But the CP4 has +4dBu outputs (based on what I've noticed; it's unfortunately not in the specs.) The aux input on the CP4 is clearly a -10dBV input, which is a good thing for my purposes.

I don't want to add a mixer. Adding gain with a mixer is just pushing the speaker into higher distortion, unless the source is weak to begin with, but in my case it's +4dBu. If that isn't loud enough, adding more gain is not the answer. I'd love to get a chance to test drive the gear, but the nearest GC is an hour away and is the smallest GC I've ever seen with very little inventory. The next out is 2 1/2 hrs away and there are several options including Sam Ash. I realize that's what I *should* do but it's inconvenient. (Then again, I drove 10 hrs to try a piano ... fortunately I had an almost-sold house halfway between and some stuff to do there so it was only really a 5 hr cost. And I did buy the piano!)

Aha, that's the "older model" I mentioned above (corresponding to the "older model" button on the Amazon page.) I didn't notice the model number change. Anyway, that clears that up. The Behringer worked OK as a vocal monitor. But I remember playing a CD through it. You're right that it'd be OK for some keyboard sounds, but piano is crucial for me.

I should add one thing about the 18880: it's solid enough for me, but not "like a rock" and I doubt it's as stable (side to side) as the Omega. It would be, with a pair of diagonal cross-braces. It comes with a detachable parallel brace that is completely useless and which immediately joined my scrap material heap. Additional cross braces would be easy to add but a nuisance for gigging. The 18880 is stable enough for me, even during boisterous palm smears, but nobody would call it a rock. Other than a tiny side-to-side wobble, it is totally stable. No chance of tipping over or a board flying off, barring a body check.