benj2017

Wondering if you can give more details on this? I just set up a multi on my PC4-7 to do this and it works fine, but I lose the high trigger as soon as I navigate away from the Multi. My procedure was to save a KB3 patch and lower the gain so there is no audio output and put that in the Zone 1 in the multi. I also set the midi channel and added a program change to select a preset on the B3-X. (The other three zones are muted with no programs selected. ) If I edit the multi and reselect the silenced KB3 patch, the high trigger comes back, but same thing happens when I navigate away.

I am planning on using the B3-X app on my iPad with my (pre-ordered) PC4-7 whenever it arrives and then running the headphone output into the 1/8th A/D input on the keyboard. I am thinking I can program KB3 programs to transmit midi to the iPad and assign the audio to the assignable secondary outs and then only use those outputs when I am not using the iPad. From what I have read on this thread and elsewhere this should work in theory. I am also wondering since the PC4 (&PC4-7) is class compliant for USB-Midi if I can use the camera connection kit and a USB cable to transmit data to and from the PC4-7 and iPad, or if I also need a midi interface and 5 pin midi cables. Ideally, the Kurz will send midi to the iPad to control the B3-X and receive midi program changes from the Band Helper app.

Yeah, the Nord Stage 3 uses the C2D engine, but the Leslie may be improved. I did notice some of what what you are talking about, but I was able to improve the onboard sound by boosting the Leslie drive to about 9:00, using the close Mic setting and slower Acc from slow to fast, messing with the EQ, and adding some compression with the fast setting. Note: I am not kicking LH bass with this rig though so right now I have the bass at 100k down by 5-8db so I can do organ sweeps without creating a bunch of onstage mud. So I might not be noticing the thinness as much. Edit: I just added all the bass back in and I am definitely getting a phatter response in the 80-100K range with the Vent and T&F, but I am sure I could address some of that with the onboard EQ.

I just picked up a Stage 3 Compact and I also agree that the Leslie is way better. I have my Vent hooked up to it along with a Lounsberry Tall and Fat and while the combo definitely adds some special sauce, it is not a huge difference. However, I also have an Lounsberry Organ Grinder into a TC Hall of Fame Mini (Spring Reverb) after the T&F and before the Vent and those definitely sound way better than the reverb and Leslie OD in the Nord. Slightly off-topic, but the general overdrive effect in the Stage 3 is also noticeably better. I have my EPs and Clavs going thru a Lounsberry Wurly Grinder and again while it adds a little something, it is not super noticeable when compared to the onboard sim. I think the limitation with both the general OD and the Leslie OD on prob all digital keyboards right now is when you try to drive them hard enough to distort hard it isn't really convincing. A good example for me would be the sound Lachey Dolley gets, or also John Medeski where you can hear the Leslie spinning inside the distortion. So not necessarily Jon Lord, but definitely breaking up a good amount. I am interested to see if the new Hammond is as better in this area as Jim A says.

Awesome explanation! I assumed when I put this all together I could just send program changes to the Yamaha like any other keyboard, but they always seem to find a way to make things difficult and non-intuitive. I am interested to see if buying the PC4-7 is going to make me jump ship for all of my live gear. I already sold my MX and am selling my MOX, which just leaves with me a Motif, which is a great studio controller, and the MOXF for live use.

The plan is to use just the PC4-7 (whenever I get it) along with the B3-x and Neo Soul Keys apps as a completely separate setup from the Yamaha/Nord. Neither the Yamaha nor the Nord have midi thru so I actually used a couple midi solution boxes to route like so: iPad &Nord >>Midi Solutions Merge>>Yamaha>>Midi Solutions Thru>>Nord & H9>>>H9 thru>>>2nd H9 (The Yamaha and Nord each trigger sounds on the other depending on the patch.) I could have eliminated some of this by using the thru on the iRIg2 and the last H9 but I wanted some flexibility to make changes later on and evidently the H9's midi thru has been wonky in the past. Also wasn't sure about the possibility of introducing latency. Regarding the setlist, there are ways to do it in that app but from what the developer says the simple way is just to have both midi presets going at the same time in one song. You don't assign the presets at the setlist level but in the song itself which is where the PDF chart is, etc. So the other way to do it is you create"smart copies" of the song and adjust the presets, but I would rather not have multiple copies of songs floating around as I would possibly like to share some of these playlists and songs with band mates using the same app potentially.

Yeah, just did some more research and it looks like the third and fourth character groups in the hex code ID's the specific manufacturer and model. Thanks for confirming though, this is definitely dry reading...

Hi, I am using the Band Helper app on my iPad (iRig 2, camera connection kit, midi solutions merge and thru) to send SysEx messages in hex code to changes patches on a Yamaha Moxf6 in Master Mode which then selects patches on my Nord Stage Ex and two H9 Eventides. This seems to be working fine. (The Yamaha can't receive program changes in Master Mode and requires system exclusive messages which is why I am sending the hex code.) I would like to use the iPad/Band Helper to also select patches on a Kurzweil PC4-7 (pre-ordered) for when I need to travel light with one board but I don't want to have to recreate all the same songs with midi presets. I am thinking I can add bank/program changes for the Kurzweil to send at the same time as the SysEx. The Yamaha should ignore the program changes, but I am unclear if the Kurz will ignore the SysEx. Are "system exclusive" messages actually system exclusive or can they trigger other keyboards as well? Also, just curious if SysEx messages travel along a specific midi channel or if this works differently somehow than for program changes, control changes, etc.

Sounds like a typical gig with my band...

There is one, the Melas tools just blow everything else out of the water. I don't know about Kurzweil, but the free Roland editor I used was about as good as the stock Yamaha one, but comparatively the entire suite of Melas tools (only for Yamaha) offer more in the way of managing workflow and also help to intuitively grasp the layout of the keyboard architecture.

Yeah, those tools are worth the money for the time they save you. On the Motif series keyboards it depends on how you edit the filter cutoff and whether you want to adjust touch sensitivity, key tracking, etc. This is where it gets complicated as you can adjust the Voice's filter cutoff or each individual element's cutoff. However, if you import the edited Voice into Mix or Performance modes, some of the Voice edits don't carry over, so it gets confusing. Once you get it though, the complexity pays off as it gives multiple ways to approach different musical/MIDI/production type issues. The setup on the Montage and MODX is a lot easier to manage though, and John Melas has tools for both of those as well. Not sure about FM-X editing capability...

That makes sense... synth sounds are typically mono, any stereo-ness comes from the fx (or by panning multiple mono sounds to different locations). I can confirm this, and it is definitely due to stereo fx, but also can be attributed to the Voice Elements for synths, strings, and some pianos being panned left or right to some degree. When I'm editing User Voices on my MOXF or MOX, I always collapse everything to mono because that is how I use those boards. I leave everything in stereo for my XF8 as that is my home studio board. It is really easy to edit Elements and FX with the Melas tools, but it is kind of a pain when you have to menu dive using the front screen. If you don't understand the Yamaha architecture, it can be extremely frustrating and time consuming. Getting the Melas tools is huge IMO, as it makes everything more intuitive...

Very cool! I get it, just disagree about this. I wouldn't want this feature personally...

Ok. Again. I'm talking about the situation where you play a piano patch and switch to another piano patch. That's the important part. I'll try to make a record tomorrow and demonstrate how it works on the Montage and how I think it should work (by using the workaround with the Sw button.) Ok, personally I think this is splitting hairs and I agree with AnotherScott, the way you want to do it screws over anyone who wants a Synth/String/Pad drone, although personally I wouldn't do it this way. If this is going to be a thing then it should be a System level option that can be selected by the user(sustain carry or something) I see where you are coming from with this, however Phil C on the yamaha site makes a good point that they are ways to do this on the Yamaha, just not with their version of the Scene button which is not the same as the Kronos's. I don't think this is a productive criticism, the Kronos and MODX are at different tiers of their product lines. Makes more sense to compare the weight of the Montage and the Kronos. The MODX costs less than half of the Kronos and has considerably less in the way of functionality.

are all of your splits layers etc in song/pattern mode? All of my XF and MOXF programs are in Performance mode (with of course a lot of custom voices as well). Pretty sure I can transfer this all over from either ... will find out when i get ready to pull the trigger. Yes, long story short I always have Yamaha strings and one of the detuned Dance Synths running on Channels 3 & 16 cause my Stage Ex is lacking in that department. (This way I can always jump to those bread and butter voices on my bottom board - the nord) My splits and layers usually use more than two Voices so hence it is necessary...

Yes, if someone doesn't want to get involved with a phone/tablet (or laptop), a MIDI Solutons box might be good way to go. I'm thinking: use the internal keys to trigger whatever combination you want of parts 1-8, and leave the MIDI Solutions Box set to permanently route your secondary controller to parts 9-16. Then set up all your Performances such that whatever you want to play from the internal keys is in the first 8 parts, whatever you want to play from the external keys are in some combination of 9 through 16. ETA: Looking at some screen shots, it also looks like if you set up the external board to transmit on 9-16, you could also toggle the internal display over to the 9-16 page to turn different sounds on and off on the fly as needed (since we're talking about using controllers that don't, themselves, have the ability to quickly switch among MIDI transmission channels, whether singly or in combination). I was actually thinking also of a MIDI solutions box to address this. I'll probably need one at some point anyway if I am going to run an iPad into my rig and send program changes from an app like ForScore, etc. I am like 99.9999999999% sure that the only reason the MIDI channels are fixed is that the Performance mode on the Montage is an extension of the Performance Mode on the Motif, which also had fixed MIDI channels. They probably figured if it ain't broke... I think really the issue is that fixing the MIDI channels removes flexibility, which was one of the nice features of the Motif. Yes it had a complicated architecture, but there were usually a few different ways to approach a problem. My final two cents on this issue are that regardless of whether its good or bad or should be on there or not, to upgrade to the Montage or MODX means that I can't really use the Melas tools to transfer over my current MOXF Splits/Layers without some extensive editing and redesign. When the time comes to upgrade, which will be soon as I need seamless switching in my life, I'm going to take a hard look at the Kronos, possibly in combination with Nord Stage 3. Anyway, kudos to the Yamaha keyboard group regardless, the MODX looks like a cool piece of gear that should help them regain some market share.

Got it. Luckily, not an issue for me. Integrating external sounds might be important for me, but being a sound source for another keyboard isn't... and if I did use that function, it is very unlikely I'd be in a situation where I'd need more than one sound triggered remotely AND my remote board didn't support more than one zone. Too many uncommon (for me) things would have to fall into place at the same time, not gonna happen. But in checking into this, I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: MIDI I/O Mode = Single -- no? I think there are some variables to this situation. If all you want to do is control a layer or split that is set from the Montage, then you could probably make it work with the single setting, but it might be tricky as you wouldn't want the Montage sending MIDI on the same channel. However, if you want more flexibility and want to always be able to hit a certain voice on a specific channel while playing a split/layer and be able to switch back and forth quickly without changing the Montage performance, then its a issue. I think the main point is that on a multi-timbral/multi-part instrument you should be able to change the midi channel per part. It's not rocket science, I've been doing it with Rolands, Yamahas, and Korgs for years now. The only reason it's a thing on the Montage and MODX is that is how Performances worked on the Motif and the guys at Yamaha are either too lazy or cheap to fix it.

This might be a better link - the other one points to some kind of guitar https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/yamaha-modx-launch/ That one is down now as well... I was wondering this as well, I emailed someone in the Yamaha keyboard group to ask...

Not sure I want to open this can of worms, but wasn't it settled on the Motifator site that the MOXF and Motif XF use the same DAC? I wouldn't doubt that the MX has lower quality hardware, but I guess the question is what changed from the Motif to the Montage in terms of the DAC and will that carry over to the MODX? I like my MX49, but there is a BIG difference in the overall sound quality between it and my MOXF, due to the limit on insert effects and lack of FX, etc. (I can't attest to how much of this from the DAC) I haven't really discerned any difference in sound quality between my MOXF and Motif. (ducks...)

Yeah, the majority of my gigs either start with a setlist which is then promptly ignored, or the MD just calls random tunes we haven't played in three months....

From your description, it sounds like a problem that might be easily remedied with a little creative use of a Brother Label Maker. Ha ha, I am way ahead of you guys, this is how I set up my MOXF so I can get to patches quickly. I think if I did something similar on the Montage, it would be pretty easy to navigate but I could be wrong. I'm also interested in setting up my ipad to transmit bank/program changes, so ideally I could do either depending on the situation.

So my two general complaints/concerns about this keyboard are the lack of bank/voice buttons, and the issue that was/is present in the Montage with not being able to select midi channels for the performance parts. (They are fixed at 1-16) Without going into a bunch of detail, I like to play the MOXF sounds from my Nord Stage and this is much easier if I create my layers and splits on the Yamaha (in Song/pattern mode) with the Melas tools and then just assign the ones to be played by the Nord to the same midi channel. Then I just run the MOXF in Master mode and play any additional voices on the MOXF's keyboard. I also typically send program changes from the Yamaha to the Nord to select either my default midi controller patch or a custom one for a specific song. That being said, it seems like a pretty sweet board and I'll probably buy one eventually... Damn you Yamaha!

No sir. Just Fast / Slow / Brake, and overdrive. If your goal is authenticity, CV in a pedal would be problematic because the percussion would end up going through the CV as well, which you don't want. Of course, that happens with rompler-based organ-with-percussion sounds anyway. You might be able to address that by layering a no-percussion drawbar sound (which would go through the CV effect) with a percussion-only sound (which would not), and then send that combination out to your Lester/Vent/whatever. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Anyway, I'm happy with my Nord/Yamaha combo for now. I feel like the two boards balance each other out.

I've done something somewhat similar - because my unweighted keyboard is a Nord Wave, my "organ" solution is a static "organ-ish" patch through an EH Lester K. I'm presuming the best Yamaha organ patch will be more authentic than my Wave patch, and forum consensus is that the Vent is a better sim pedal than the Lester K. Still, I have to tell you - my bandmates are in love with this. Just last gig, my seasoned pro guitar player came up at set break and offered, "Man, Tim, your organ sound is awesome. Especially love whatever Leslie pedal you use - that thing sounds incredible to me." The trick, of course, is to feed the pedal a completely dry, unmodulated, no-vibrato, no-chorus version and let the pedal sim do all its magic on its own. Anyway, its the way I currently keep myself from buying a dedicated clonewheel. Does the Lester K have a vibrato/chorus effect? I was just checking out the Vent and it doesn't seem to...

Gotcha, If you go over to the Motifator forum and do a search, there was a whole big controversial discussion/rant/war about whether there was any difference in sound between the Motif XF and the MOXF. I think the overall conclusion that there wasn't any changes in FX or samples, etc. However it sounds like you are comparing to the pre-XF sounds which were likely on the CP50. I owned an MO8 prior to my current boards, and I can definitely 100% say the organ/leslie improved when the XF series came out. Since this is what the MX soundset draws from, I'd say we probably agree on that. I remember demoing the MOXF organs against the Nord Electro at GC when it first came out and thinking they weren't that far off. However, I think the Yamaha starts to suffer when the Leslie is spinning fast and when you use voices that incorporate samples with the higher harmonic drawbars pulled out.