JoeToGo

Hope this topic doesn't get me banned, but I'm watching the RiffTrax version of a bad 1987 action movie, "Miami Connection", in which a pop band is also (what else?) practitioners of martial arts ... they all live together, like The Beatles in Help!, and fight the biker ninjas whose gig they evidently took, to a continuous soundtrack of Miami-Vice-meets-butt-rock. That kind of film. What grabbed my attention was that the keyboardist uses a Prophet 600 and some kind of Roland (I'm guessing Jupiter by the size, but haven't seen it well enough to tell). Neither is actually plugged in but neither are the guitars; they're actors pretending to play. While the audience is depicted as pretty pumped-up by the band (of course! it's a movie!), I have to wonder if the by-then-passe keyboards (and overall sound, including Simmons drums) weren't maybe deliberately chosen as some sort of comment on the band's taste, or means. I mean, who was using a Prophet for new, original pop music in 1987?? Of course, maybe these were just what the film's producers could get cheap. I don't see a lot of band equipment in movies, so this really caught my eye ...

Reminds me of a time when my church put on a "Beatles sing-along" night as fundraiser. I volunteered to play bass (which I play left-handed). There was no set list -- it was all request -- so I prepped with YouTube on the more challenging tunes, just in case. It soon became clear I was the only one who had, when everyone else fell apart on the bridge of "Here There and Everywhere" -- I still remember the bandleader's face, with that exquisite blend of bewilderment and horror, his hands froze in indecision. Fortunately that was one I had made sure I knew 100%, so we got through. -- not to imply these guys were not normally prepared: if you've ever done church performance, you know the rule is short-notice. and yet on another occasion, they did "God Only Knows" and it was letter-perfect, and that's no small feat.

well now, thanks to this thread, I've just spent the last half hour going over the chords to "If I Fell" instead of getting any work done. Kudos!

Can you believe, I just bought one last year?? It was a local DX7iiFD for $300, and still nobody was buying it. And although I already have a CPS Spacestation -- see my earlier post -- I am now thinking to buy a Roland KC to augment it as sub (my only complaint about the CPS was that it was less bass-resonant). And there's an X stand permanently in the trunk of my car (lightweight, easy to carry, I don't care if it gets stolen/forgotten). It's 2019, and I could be showing up at a jam with your first rig!

I found it helped for some lyrics to write a sort of prompt sheet -- not the whole lyric, which becomes a crutch, but just the first phrase of each verse. This only works, of course, for songs where I did actually learn the lyric at some point, and only need a prompt as to which verse is next. FWIW -- listening to many live Grateful Dead shows reveals that Jerry Garcia occasionally forgot lyrics, well before his final years. There one from the early 80s where the soundboard recording clearly has Jerry singing something like "a dub-a dub-a dub-a de-dee" for a couple lines in "Alabama Getaway" (at a time when they performed that song almost every show). Also FWIW, there was a story from when the Dead and Dylan were rehearsing together, and Dylan proposed one of those long songs of his that had a dozen verses. Bob Weir of the Dead -- no stranger to blowing lyrics onstage -- gently asked Dylan if he could truly remember all those words in the live-on-stage moment. Dylan's answer was something like "oh yeah .... the important ones, at least"

Gotta say I'm a bit jealous of all the people who had piano lessons ... I managed to get my parents to buy me a trumpet after a year of rentals. Later they wouldn't let me buy a bass (with money I had earned from my first hourly job). I eventually learned to buy music gear without asking first, because the answer would be no -- but by then I had no money, having been kicked out on my own. Bass appealed to me because I could pick it out, being the lowest sound in a given song. And I found a $15 acoustic guitar at a garage sale. So I wasn't a keyboardist. But I liked to play "air keys" on the back of the living-room couch while listening to ELP's "Tarkus". CTTE? All that stuff was just beyond me. But Jarre had that Pink Floyd vibe that spoke deep to my teenage soul ... More recently, I was to play a song on acoustic in church, but (once the intro was out of the way) the Hammond sound was much more important to the song* . Since I'd been asked specifically to play guitar, I couldn't abandon that aspect ... so I bought a PK-5a foot controller, and added the important organ notes that way (plus a few hand swipes when I sneak them in). Fact is: guitar isn't half as interesting as Hammond organ. It can swoop and soar, it can sing, it can whisper, it can growl, it can roar. This is demonstrated by Jimmy Smith (for me, via Keith Emerson copying his licks, but also on the OOP "Keep On Comin'" album), Mel Seals in the Jerry Garcia Band and Brent Mydland in the Grateful Dead), and of course Gregg Allman -- and Chester Thompson with ToP. But let's give it up for John Medeski's transcendent performances on Sex Mob's "Does Bond" album, which nobody heard. Natalie Merchant's "Kind and Generous"

You have a CX-3 and you want other sounds?? Dude, that thing is sex on wheels!! Nothing rocks like a CX-3 Seriously though, I'm glad to see all the helpful suggestions here. Me, I just throw the MX61 on top of the CX-3, drop both through a Yamaha mixer and I'm good ... not J.Dan good, admittedly, but good enough for Sunday

bear in mind that last year GC was Chapter 11 -- orders from above may have hamstrung the freedom of in-store demos. Which in no way excuses the attitude of the employee, but then maybe all the good employees left, but this guy still shows up.* *speaking from personal experience of running a chain-store (Performance Bike) with only one employee besides myself

Most of my synths were bought pursuing something specific (e.g., the Korg CX-3 for drawbar clonewheel, and only after researching online opinions), or because I saw them used for something I wanted to do (e.g., the MS-20 Mini for clicky Jarre sounds). The most 'instinctive' purchase I made was probably the Ion or the System-8 ... actually, all my Rolands have been bought with little or no idea what I was actually getting, and I really like them all. But have yet to like the Ion. Hm..

Ha ha -- For guitarists, the elements of any given song divide into two categories: Guitar Parts and Everything Else.They often don't really distinguish what the other instruments are playing; as CowboyNQ implies, it's basically them playing in front of "the band", with notice only for standout bits (e.g., Nawlins-style piano or a synth lead). This isn't to slam on guitarists particularly -- singers are often just as guilty -- but the closest I have seen a guitarist come to red-flagging a keyboardist was to compare their shorter setup time.

ah, the "don't be judgemental" response is popular ... after all, who are we to judge the choices and actions of others? Especially when so many great artists have been known users. Fair enough; let's make a list of those whose artistry was diminished by cutting out drug/alcohol use. ... Well, that was quick. A list of those who prospered after cleaning up, on the other hand, wouldn't be so hard. A third list of those who died from complications related to their drug/alcohol use -- well, that comes dangerously close to being simply a list of the greatest artists who died too young. Me, I've recorded myself under the influence; everything I thought sounded great had to be re-done (mostly for timing). Except the lead singer, who sounded great on every take. Bastard. I'm not going to tell others to "stay off it"; if you can play well under the influence, cheers to you. But the one thing drugs or alcohol can never do is improve communication.

oh, whew! It's not just me If there's anything I'm learning from these "red flag" descriptions, it's what I myself could perhaps not do. Note-perfect recreations haven't been my goal, except when crucial to the song, but it does seem reasonable to know the album version just in case. Billy Powell? When "Sweet Home Alabama" was suggested by a singer (auditioning for the band), I played nothing rather than butcher that part. We didn't end up taking on that singer (he was really more country) but I was keenly aware of my non-participation. On the other hand: as cphollis says, the bar seems low for local bands, and I've done fine with just the MX61 and a CPS Spacestation -- there simply aren't many keyboardists around ... possibly because there isn't any money in local gigs, so perhaps all the good keyboardists left for LA or Nashville ??

Kudos to all you guys for pulling it through. After relocating to an entirely different region (and raising kids), I find most bands offer several of these flags. Which is fine; I still had occasional gigs, and sometimes they even paid. All flags have exceptions, I suppose. That being said, I've read all the posts here (and on the previous thread for the same topic, four months ago) and it's been instructive. Not that I hadn't already come to many of the same conclusions, but because I've been in SO MANY of the situations described, even though I'm not even a regular gigger. I've immediately dropped projects (even of my own starting) for some of these reasons, then wondered if I wasn't being too picky. Some deal-breakers: - drummer hitting drum next to my ear as I'm leaning over to make pedal/amp adjustment. Asked him not to do that. He did it again, thinking it was funny. - Guitarist plays standing behind his amp, so he can "hear the room mix". The amp is pointed at me. I moved my setup next session; he rotated his amp so it still pointed at me. - Lead singer switches to my note when I come in on vocal harmony. - Guitarist noodles at full volume during rehearsal, preventing anybody talking. - Bandleader/drummer plays only max volume -- except one Eagles tune -- in a small rehearsal room. On that tune alone, I can clearly hear the vocals. Then it's back to business. - Audition for trio that wanted to expand; the rehearsal room had no actual space for me, so I had to set up in the hall outside. - Band members talk about what they'll do when they make it big, while smoking pot before rehearsal begins.

Hm, well ... you make a good argument -- assuming of course that you aren't being ironic. I don't actually actually know anything about these signal processors, and I freely admit that I do *not* want to sound like a dated 80s power ballad. But if any rackable unit will do, it might as well be a Yamaha

Honestly, how can we recognize you with a shirt on? And of course the guitarist needs several 4x12 cabinets -- "to get that sound"

I'm glad to see all the positive support here for the DX7. I likewise got a DX7iiFD recently -- simply because it was a good price, but nobody was buying it. Although the DX7 never rated high on my list of desired synths, I did like the way David Lewis used it in Shadowfax, and it satisfies my first criterion: it does what it does better than anything else. Then a QX7 sequencer came up for sale, so I bought that too. I haven't figured out how to work it yet, but it seemed unfair not to get a TX7 as well, so I did. Why not have the full package? I do notice how poorly it compares with the D-50, precisely because the D-50 adds its own reverb and effects. Any recommendations for what reverb/chorus unit is best for the DX7?

I bought a MIDI controller from a local (Seattle) musician, who told me a similar story: his band doesn't gig in Seattle, but Europe -- specifically, Germany. The basic plan is to play enough German gigs to pay for the trip. Making money happens at their day jobs. They play punk music. In the Seattle area, there is one real source of money for bands: playing covers at the casinos (and, to a lesser extent, in bars). There is no money in originals, but there are places who will let you play for free (and of course the ubiquitous tip jar). Supply exceeds demand. With that in mind, I resigned the cover bands and plowed my money toward recording gear. If I perform, I keep it cheap (e.g., mike + acoustic guitar), though I harbor secret plans to invest in a lighting setup for a more dramatic visual presentation. Probably won't happen, though -- that's thousands of dollars for any real impact, and without a name-brand draw, there still won't be any money in it -- or even musicians interested in doing such.

Got to hear them both, working together, on Turrentine's More Than a Mood ....

I'd planned on doing the same, but both were taking so long to be in stock, so I bought a JV-1080 and a TX-7 ... and then an Ion came up at a reasonable price. Suddenly out of synth money, but I got three for the price of two

And he did it every movie. So you have to watch them all!

I first learned about Windham Hill when it was strictly an acoustic label, limited to solo and duet performances -- Alex de Grassi being arguably their outstanding artist. SO outstanding, in fact, that his cousin Will Ackerman (CEO of WH at the time) let him break with the solo/duo mold, and make an album with an ensemble of six people (Clockwork). That ensemble included an element practically nobody had ever heard: Chuck Greenberg and his lyricon. Ackerman was so enthralled by its angelic sound that he agreed to let Chuck record his own album, with his own band, without even knowing what that band sounded like. Now, Shadowfax had an acoustic side that hadn't been represented by their 1978 album, so their Windham Hill was a logical (if very one-sided) extension of their sound. There's a recording from the tour for that album, and those songs were a lot more lively in concert (and featured electric guitar rather than acoustic), but the album is very restrained. Of course, their next album crept back toward center -- even re-recording material from their lively 1978 album, albeit in gentler form. By then, CEO Will Ackerman was including ensemble pieces on his own albums, thereby expanding the Windham Hill sound as a whole. Chuck's lyricon was featured there as well; in a way, he was almost the figurehead of that expanded sound. Concerts were organized of "An Evening With Windham Hill Live", which featured only WH artists. This was a logical progression from how the albums themselves had been marketed, in their own separate display case -- as if Windham Hill were a category unto itself. Shadowfax took over the closing spot in these concerts, being the most energetic act. By 1984, Windham Hill was the most successful independent label in the US. Shadowfax was no longer the only ensemble act on Windham Hill; by 1986, most new WH releases were ensemble. Meanwhile, radio stations had created "new age" as a category, and Windham Hill's gentle energy and high-quality sound fit right in -- even though WH had never pursued the New Age label or ethos. This had the effect of associating WH in the public mind with a spurious and transitory fad which had never been the label's goal, but was soon what buyers expected. IMO, this was the beginning of the end -- so maybe that's why Shadowfax left. Windham Hill had always pursued a label identity over artist identity; if you liked a WH record, the rest were similar in tone and energy. By the late 80s, this was backfiring on them, as listeners demanded more of what commercial New Age radio was playing, but then criticizing the more generic results. But in the mid-80s, it was all good. Michael Hedges was wowing minds with his flamboyant pyrotechnics, Michael Manring took over anchoring the Montreux band when he wasn't adding amazing basslines to Ackerman's or Hedges' albums, George Winston had crossed over to pop charts with his quasi-Xmas album December, and Windham Hill had built up a solid catalog of albums, all still very listenable today. Classical music (Bill Quist: Piano Solos of Erik Satie) sat comfortably by steel-string folk guitar (Alex de Grassi: Southern Exposure). People struggled to give it a label; "chamber jazz" may have been best. Arguably, Shadowfax never really belonged on the Windham Hill label. But it worked out well for them, and yielded their best albums. The Montreux band was their nearest comparison, even as they had different influences -- but the Montreux band was made up of several people making records in various configurations, the way Crosby Stills and Nash had in the 70s. Recommended Windham Hill. (*) denotes guest musicians. - William Ackerman: Passage (1981) (guitar/ensemble) (*George Winston) - Alex de Grassi: Clockwork (1981) (guitar/ensemble) (*Chuck Greenberg) - Mark Isham: Vapor Drawings (1981) (synthesizers/trumpet) - Darol Anger/Barbara Higbie: Tideline (1982) (piano/violin) - William Ackerman: Past Light (1983) (guitar/ensemble) (*Greenberg; Anger; Manring; Hedges) - Mike Marshall & Darol Anger: Chiaroscuro (ensemble) (1985) (Montreux Band) - Michael Manring: Unusual Weather (1985) (electric bass/ensemble) - Michael Hedges: Live From the Double Planet (guitar) (1987)

It's funny to see UB essentially post a job-call here. I admire his spirit, and applaud the products, but checking a company-review site revealed one medium-positive review, followed by a long stream of very negative reviews -- including one which accused the single positive review of being a plant. Well, it's no surprise that disgruntled ex-employees are more likely to bad-mouth their last job. But reading through those reviews reveals comment after comment of people who wanted to love it, and repeated complaints about hierarchy and inefficiency. It's one thing to read a bitchout vent, another to read constructive criticism by several sources, all pointing to the same issues. I mention this because I was delighted to find that big B actually had a location near where I live; this is an exciting time for that company, and I was enticed by the idea of being part of it. But I notice that all those lamentations were written by people who were excited and enthusiastic about the potential products -- and then beaten down and dismayed by a top-heavy, distrustful, negative working environment. The example which stood out for me was that you could not directly email a person in another department, but had to send your email to your dept head, who would then check and/or 'correct' your email, send it to the head of that dept, who would then dispatch your 'corrected' email to the intended recipient. Well, we can certainly understand a need for company secrecy about proprietary issues. And perhaps there are details the complainers were not aware of. But this certainly suggests a kind of environment to take into consideration.

Thanks, I'll have to check that out Look forward to your impressions and thoughts when you've absorbed it. I do think almost every album has some throwaway tracks, but that's generally true of most records for me (even 'Ziggy Stardust' has 'It Ain't Easy'). Some standouts would have to be 'Shadowdance', 'Brown Rice', 'The Dreams of Children', 'Ritual', 'A Thousand Teardrops' ... and (although I have never liked it), 'Shaman Song' is evidently a big favorite among fans. Instead, I always liked 'The Big Song' (especially when followed by 'The Dreams of Children').

He died in 1995, which ended the band. I agree that TDOC is essentially their arrival, style-wise. 'Too Far to Whisper' continued that and even augmented it with a world-class violinist/composer, Charlie Bisharat (check YT for his song on that album, 'Road to Hanna'). TFTW also includes one of my favorite S-fax songs, 'Ritual'. The post- 'Folksongs' releases recovered the 'Dreams of Children' vibe, though not perhaps rivalling it. Absolutely, as you hear even more on their original 1978 album 'Watercourse Way' (on YT). Not so much keyboards then, and certainly no DX7 (for obvious reasons). FWIW I just added some reviews on Allmusic, since none of these records had reviews there.

Shadowfax took a new turn when they got David C. Lewis as their keyboardist on their 1984 album, as his use of the DX7 significantly enhanced their sound. But I never see any musicians talking about either the band or Lewis ... not cool enough, maybe? Or (and this seems more likely) just simply not heard: no hits, no famous names, and possibly dismissed as just another 80s band -- or even as "new age" (which they definitely were not), by dint of being on the Windham Hill label. Not helping is the fact that their best-known album is fairly dull -- as if their switch to a major label diluted the magic. This somehow won their only Grammy. Anyway, here's a stab in to the dark (i.e., the internet) to see if anyone else has any insight regarding their four Windham Hill albums, 1982-1986. Shadowfax were generous about listing the instruments used, but it's not always clear which instruments I'm hearing; Greenberg's lyricon could just as easily be providing some synthy lead as the keyboards -- not to mention the presence of the violinist and guitarist. Anybody else fond of this band?