voxpops
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Posts posted by voxpops
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Still, there is a balance to be struck between low weight on one side and functionality, sound quality, and the sheer pleasure of playing on the other, and I can't say I've always gotten it right. But also like Craig says, the threshold of what will be satisfying can vary with the gig as well.
I couldn't agree more. After going through a succession of pianos from all manufacturers (sometimes more than once), I've recently settled on the SV-1 73 for band work. The action is not ideal, with some strange behavior when playing pp; the shorter keybed means I have to adapt some pieces; switching between sounds is clunky; it weighs quite a bit more than it should for its size. On the other side of the scale is how inspiring it can be in a band context; the degree of control/modulation over the sounds; how much easier the shorter length can be when negotiating stairs. I would not use it as a solo board, however.
Organ is actually more problematic for me. In the late '70s and early '80s, I played Hammond tonewheels and Leslies almost exclusively. Having been brought up on that, I have a benchmark in my mind of how an organ should sound. None of the clones (sans Leslie) gets there IMO. The Numa is nice, but it still doesn't activate that part of my brain that says I'm playing a Hammond - neither do the newer Hammonds! So with that in mind, I might as well go for the lightest, most versatile clone that gets the job done. Hence the VR-09.
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I find it a little odd that a number of people question the decision of others to purchase the VR-09 as a means to their own particular ends. It seems to be based on a perception that the VR is in some way substandard; it might be worth subjecting that to a little contextual probing.
The VK engine has been around for years. It is generally regarded as an acceptable, if not outstanding, clonewheel. The VR, it seems, employs a modified version of the VK. It is missing a few external controls and routings (pity), but has some tweaks - most notably to the Leslie sim, which was an area of weakness for the VK. The lack of waterfall keys was rarely cited as an issue in relation to the VK-7, although their inclusion in the VK-8 was generally welcomed.
The V-Combo has always been something of a niche market board. Any sort of do-it-all board either makes compromises in terms of control surface or becomes a menu-driven colossus. The VR series has always erred on the side of requirements for live use. The VR-760 was probably the most feature-rich of them all, but it was also big and fairly heavy. The VR-09 cuts way back on the footprint and weight, and so increases the versatility and appeal, IMO. Looking at the layout, it also seems to be a no-brainer to use.
The inclusion of a basic synth engine that goes beyond the few ROMpler patches of the SK Hammonds or the essentially fixed samples of the Electro is welcome, even though it may not be as engaging as Casio's XW mono-synth. The pianos may be drawn from the pre-SN RD/FP series, and, while not in the Nord league, are still acceptable and of similar quality to Yamaha's mid-range offerings. There is also a range of effects that are tweakable on the fly.
So, all in all, for a board priced at $1k, it seems to do pretty well - better in some areas than boards costing twice as much, not quite so well in others. If one were to do a direct comparison with the SK-1, even though the Hammond would probably win the clone shootout with its organ-centric features and updated VASE engine, when you consider all the features of both models, and then compare the price, I'd imagine the VR-09 would acquit itself very respectably.
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The main issue I would like to point out to anyone that has already invested in a gear footprint that approaches nirvana...why expend another $999 in lower gig quality gear that won't reasonably pay for itself in short order? Because you can? Ok, more power to ya.
I think that's a reasonable question. If you already have a Stage 2 compact, for example, I can't see the VR-09 being a worthwhile investment, but if you have a 55lbs board that you would like to move only when absolutely necessary, then maybe the VR will fill a gap. Also, sometimes it's just nice to be able to mix things up a little...
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For me, I wanted a lightweight board that married a good clone engine with a usable synth for a second tier - at a sensible price. If the NE4 had anything beyond a basic sample player it would have been the obvious candidate. If the PC361 was a little lighter and more readily available, it could also have been in the running. If the XW-P1 had a clonewheel engine, rather than a kind of wannabe organ, then I would have kept that and used it. All of those boards fall short in some respect, except, apparently, for the VR-09, and so I have it on order.
Do I expect compromises? Yes. Do I expect it to have the best organ, synth and piano engines from dedicated boards? No. But I trust Roland to give me good quality sounds, and a sensible interface that's easy to use in a live situation. And for the $850 I'm paying, I'm unlikely to be disappointed in those respects.
At the moment, for top board I use either the Numa Organ coupled with a Plugiator or a Micron (the only synth with full-size keys that will fit on top of the Numa without having to use a 3-tier stand), or VB3 played from an Axiom, and teamed with the Plugiator. It's OK, but I would prefer a simplified setup that doesn't involve either MIDI (with the need to also add external filtering), or the risk of collapse: my K&M 18880/81 starts to wobble with a weighted board on the bottom, and then the Numa and Micron up above (I love that stand, as it's so incredibly light and easy to setup).
Before committing to buy the Roland, I really didn't expect to get more than basic software functionality, and so I'm not disappointed now the manual and hands-on testing has confirmed that. Dedicated clonewheels with waterfall keys and separate rotary speaker outputs, etc. start at closing on $2k. The VR-09 was never going to change that. VA synths can be had relatively inexpensively - even analogues, too, in some cases - but you need real estate for those. The piano engine is not vital to me, but it's nice to have alternatives/backups available. But put all that together WITH DRAWBARS, and it's a helluva deal, IMO.
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Same here. Nice to have the "friendly" discount, too!
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I'm very close to thinking the VR-09 is worth a gamble at $999. I'd like to hear more, but the fact that it has sliders that look no worse than those on the NE4D, sports an uprated Leslie sim, has some live synth-shaping parameters, plus some reasonably good pianos for backup use, all make it quite appealing. I doubt it'll hold its value like a Nord, but then it has less far to fall...
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I think the other advantage is the drawbar organ. That really does differentiate it from the pack of $1k & under boards.
I think they saw the buzz over CASIO's XW-P1 last year and decided people still really want drawbars.
I love drawbars.
I agree. I've had four Electros, and every time thought that I ought to be able to get used to the "drawbuttons," but always felt hamstrung by the darn things. Now, Nord presents us with the option of drawbars and a 61-key board with inadequate memory, or a 73 with the dreaded buttons. Thanks!
The Casio is an interesting board (I have one) but for me its only use is as a controller for VB3, and occasional mono synth leads. The drawbars controlling the onboard organ are poorly implemented with a huge jump from registration 0 to 1, and the organ tone is thin, with a toytown rotary sim. But I still applaud Casio for taking steps towards a more interesting product range.
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The RD-64 only has MIDI OUT, but it's more of a controller+a few voices device anyway.
Busch.
That was where my confusion lay.
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You could put almost any weighted action on the first tier and use the APs/EPs out of the VR.
I thought someone said that it only has MIDI-out - no MIDI-in.
No MIDI IN and OUT plus it appears to have PEDAL IN (Roland bass pedals shown in a number of photos).
Busch.
Thanks, I've changed my post above.
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You could put almost any weighted action on the first tier and use the APs/EPs out of the VR.
I thought someone said that it only has MIDI-out - no MIDI-in.
Stupid comment. I should have looked at the picture first!
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I think it all depends on the price and the actual sound quality. If it comes in at around $1,000 (or half an Electro 4D) it might gain some traction. A lot of people are looking for bread and butter sounds in a lightweight package. Up to now, Roland has rarely delivered on EP samples, so much will depend on how they've done in that department. The organ sounds (from the videos) may be typical Roland VK, but they sound WAY better than Casio's in my opinion. The lack of complete on-board control for the organ parameters is limiting, but possibly not crucial for some players. The synth seems to have some flexibility (more than in the VR-700). The biggest negative is having to buy an iPad (unless you already own one, of course) if you want full control over the sound-shaping parameters.
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Love the ending of the predictably crappy overview video when the narrator declares that it "won't put you in the RED!"
Roland V-Combo VR-09
in The Keyboard Corner
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Unfortunately, I've not been able to try a Vent yet. From the stuff I've heard and read, it certainly seems to be the closest representation out there. A number of people have said, however, that it's not as cut and dried when coupled with the Numa. I just wish I could manage a real Leslie, but even the Studio 12 is too much for me these days (for gigging at least).
You know, oddly, I've never experimented with VB3 via the Numa. I suppose it seemed redundant to attach one clone to another, but it might be interesting to try.
The Numa is actually thicker sounding than VB3, but VB3 is "greasier." A combination of the two might be intriguing!
Yes. The differences are subtle (as you'd expect), but there nonetheless. But, good as they are, none of them can quite match that combination of electromechanical and tube-driven liveliness, that's then spun around the room. How could they?
Actually, from what I've heard, if Guido ever releases VB3 2.0 for download, that's probably about as close as one can reasonably expect to get.