voxpops
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Posts posted by voxpops
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Bonners Music in Eastbourne. I believe they and the distributor are the only ones with the SP6 at present.
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Great programming, by the way, Dave! Just auditioned a few of the samples and they're really an enhancement to the SP6. Love that "WHO" lead with a little vibrato!
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A HUGE shout out to Dave Weiser, who just sent me his SP6 files free of charge... and I'm not even a paying customer (living in the UK). That is just so amazingly generous!!!
If you're thinking of buying anything Kurzweil, please, please, please go straight to Dave!
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Further bug reports:
1. Editing Multis: attempting to transpose KB3 in Zone 1 results in Zone 2 being transposed instead. I tried it with a non-KB3 sound yesterday, and had a similar result, but with a lot of fiddling and transferring sound 2 to zone 3, eventually I made zone 1 transpose stick. Today, with KB3, it seems impossible.
Edit: Zone 1 transpose doesn't seem to work properly with other sounds, either, and sometimes (unpredictably) changing zone 1 transpose will affect a completely different zone.
2. Editing Multis: Placing KB3 in zones 2,3,4 makes the pedal Leslie control inoperable. This may be due to the assigned channel, but it's not ideal.
3. There seems to be no way to assign reverb levels to saved Multis (haven't tried with Programs yet). The reverb level always seems to default to zero, requiring it to be reset every time you change a patch.
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Dave has offered his recent batch of Aps/EPs for free to anyone on this board who's got an SP6 - so send him a private message and get downloading!
Thanks! Yes, I sent Dave a message a few days ago, but I think he may be away on tour or sunning himself somewhere exotic.
It's a very generous offer, but I'd be happy to pay for a few significantly improved AP and EP patches - I believe the raw material is there.
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I loaded the pc3 files onto a USB stick. Then I went to Global and found the place where you load (File Page 3/6 - file storage options). I then loaded the complete set of pc3 files in one go. It fills all the user slots and just ignores the surplus. I believe you can also access individual patches within a set, but I haven't tried that. If you then try to save a user program in a full store, you simply overwrite an existing patch. So I assume, if you want to load your KORE file after installing the regular PC3 set, you'd tell the system where to start loading, and it would overwrite the appropriate number of programs from there - but that is just an assumption.
One word of caution. As an initial experiment, I thought I'd try loading some files I'd downloaded from other PC3 users at various times. I installed half a dozen or so, went back to playing... and nada... not a peep from the SP6. I rebooted and still nothing - not a single note would play, no matter the patch. It seems that the system must be fairly easy to corrupt. Fortunately, it reloaded the latest OS without a hitch, and everything was back to normal.
It made me think back to my PC361 days, and I remember loading a couple of patches that wouldn't play, though they didn't seem to affect other programs. I must have loaded those same corrupt programs, but the SP6 may be a little more fragile in that respect.
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I'm guessing you meant there was not a way to have the knobs control EQ on those patches? Is there at least a way to do it through editing via menu?
Poorly phrased on my part. No, I meant that Kurz should have another look at these "optimized" new pianos and at least get them on par with the old triple strike for EQ and richness of tone, particularly in the bass. The 7' grand doesn't suffer as much as the 9' in this regard.
As far as I can tell, the PC3 programs don't respond to the knobs in the same way as the internal factory sounds. It would be useful, but it's not a big deal for me. Those sounds were generally very well programmed in my opinion.
I see that the new update adds a feature:
so the questions would be, does the new feature of showing all parameters work on imported PC3 programs, and can you then edit the formerly hidden parameters or are they merely "shown" to you for informational purposes? My guess is that it would work on PC3 programs and that they would be editable, but since that was the extent of the documentation, the only way to be sure would be to try it (or maybe ask someone at Kurz or Dave W). Then you'd have to see if EQ is indeed one of the revealed parameters you can access on imported PC3 programs. Regardless of any of that, worst case, there is an editor coming out, and presumably you'd be able to edit the EQ of PC3 programs there."NEW "Show Params" parameter (page 1/6) - If set to Yes, a new page appears in Program Edit Mode (4/4) where all the Parameters of the Program will be shownI'll need to do some more menu diving to be sure about what can be done with the old stuff, but as you say, the editor should take care of all that.
Listening to the "optimized" Forte pianos on the SP6 versus the old triple-strikes, I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of room for improving the SP6 pianos in an update.Do you feel this way equally about both the German D and the Japanese?
As mentioned above, I think the Japanese piano is the one that needs the most work. I'd be curious to try Dave Weiser's patches as I think he has the most experience programming piano sounds for Kurzweil. I don't know whether he's going to be offering them for sale or not, but I would hazard a guess that they make the most of the SP6's horsepower.
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Listening to the "optimized" Forte pianos on the SP6 versus the old triple-strikes, I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of room for improving the SP6 pianos in an update. Obviously, I haven't a clue what is going on inside the works, but I am beginning to wonder if "optimized" means "make sure they don't compete with our higher priced boards!" If (and it's a big "if") that's the case, it's understandable, but possibly short-sighted. A lot of semi-pro users will be looking at this board due to its weight and potential.
I have a few days to decide whether it's a keeper or not. At the moment, I'm on the fence...
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Thanks for the insiteful review voxpops.
You're very welcome. I hope to expand on it after a few weeks with the board.
Good news that you find the action useable.The new OS update includes adding a high trigger option for organ. When you get to try it out let us know how its implemented an if its an improvement or not.I did try it briefly yesterday, and it makes playing organ on the piano action tolerable - so kudos to Kurz for including that. And because it's dual sensor rather than triple, it behaves a little less wildly than using the high(est) trigger point on the MP7, which was prone to double-trigger due to key bounce.
Maybe Kurz should have included a 50"x12"x9mm piece of marine plywood in the box for stand placement.
You know, that solution actually flashed through my mind yesterday!
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As for the EQ, there was discussion earlier in the thread about how you can define the 4 knobs to function as EQ on any given program. Not as convenient as a global, but it's something.
Thanks for reminding me about that. I went hunting and found the parameters. That said, I have just now loaded the old PC3 programs, and there are no EQ issues with those triple-strike pianos. It's something that Kurzweil might want to address.
One bug that I've found is that on-screen drawbar settings are reversed and that 0=8 and 8=0. I can't understand how that got missed!
Nice to be able to load all the old PC3 stuff, which expands the potential hugely, but there's still a lot of OS work to do on the basic SP6 stuff. It feels like it's been rushed through.
I was very tempted by the concept of the SP1 - simple and with dedicated volume knobs and line-ins - but having listened to the initial videos, it sounded VERY entry level, and with no workaround for poorly programmed sounds. The SP6 is basically a PC3-lite/light with "benefits." Looking forward to updates form Kurz. Meanwhile, I'll be slogging through all the PC3 material to begin cherry picking.
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Right from the start I noticed that I was getting a loud key "clacking" sound from an octave and a bit in the lower register. I remembered that someone had pointed out that the board does flex a little, so I took it off my K&M stand and rested it on its ends - sure enough the clacking disappeared. This is indicative of poor design. It's a lightweight board, but large, and the frame or base should be strong enough to support the rest of the unit without flexing.You shouldn't have to, but I wonder if you can "fix" this by changing the width of the K&M, to find more ideal support spots for the board.
That's exactly how I "fixed" it, Scott! I think you need to support the board to the outside of the sculpted portion, to allow for better rear support.
Action is reminiscent of the Privia series, but a little heavier.Any feel about how they would compare in terms of quickness of return? "Heavier feeling" tends to equate with "slower feeling" but I think not necessarily...Key return is fairly fast. Trills and note repetitions are fine. It's really not a bad action at all, although only dual-sensor. So yes, although fairly heavy, it's not sluggish.
EPs are good, maybe with not quite the SV-1's vibe, but they should work fine for what I do, and you can clearly hear the randomized mechanical noises, which add a little extra authenticity.Any thought about "finger to ear connection"? Somehow, that's some of what I think Korg really got right with the SV1 EPs.That is what I am currently missing the most about the SV. The SP6 is OK, but I know I'm playing a computer at the moment. But it's early days, and I need to see what this board can do. It's quite a comprehensive package for not too much cash - just wish it had onboard EQ.
p.s. -- good to see you back here, it's been a while!Thanks Scott, it certainly has been a while! After moving back across the pond, I got bogged down in all sorts of non-musical things, so stepped away from the forums. Hope to be throwing my two cents in from time to time.
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The board is about 52.5" by 15" - not huge for an 88, but fairly chunky in terms of the width from keys to rear.
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From memory, it's the 18880, which has the concertina spreader.
The noise from the keys sounded as if they were striking the case - or at least some part of the internal housing.
You can actually feel the base flex slightly if you place your hands underneath and pick it up off the stand.
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So, just this afternoon I took delivery of a new SP6. It replaces a Korg SV-1. It was a real wrench letting that board go, but I wanted a little more sonic variety in my main keyboard. I was also a little tired of the Korg's quirky response at low velocities.
I've only spent a few minutes with the SP6, so these are really only initial thoughts and subject to revision.
Right from the start I noticed that I was getting a loud key "clacking" sound from an octave and a bit in the lower register. I remembered that someone had pointed out that the board does flex a little, so I took it off my K&M stand and rested it on its ends - sure enough the clacking disappeared. This is indicative of poor design. It's a lightweight board, but large, and the frame or base should be strong enough to support the rest of the unit without flexing.
Action is reminiscent of the Privia series, but a little heavier. Someone on the other thread described the feel pretty accurately, IMO, when comparing it to the MP11.
Knobs and buttons feel fairly sturdy and up to the task. Screen is clear.
Power adapter cable is thin and may need to be supplemented with a spare. (My A/C adapter came with a Euro plug - come on guys, the UK uses completely different plugs!)
Piano sound through my EV ZX-A1s is fairly good, but not exceptional. I can confirm that the lower end is a little thin (as others have noted from the videos).
EPs are good, maybe with not quite the SV-1's vibe, but they should work fine for what I do, and you can clearly hear the randomized mechanical noises, which add a little extra authenticity.
Strings/pads - difficult to find something that isn't slathered in FX and with very slow attack. I'll need to work on these.
KB3 - great!
Synths - there are some very useful lead patches, and they sound great.
That's as far as I've got with it, but I'll try to add some more comprehensive thoughts in a few days time.
EDIT: Just updated the system, and that seems to have improved the piano response significantly and there also seems to be a marginal improvement to EQ.
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From the quick start guide:
FlashPlay technology with support for 2GB of Sound ROM
High Definition Japanese Grand Piano and High Definition Electric Piano
ROM sounds included from Kurzweils acclaimed PC3 series, KORE64 expansion,
and German D Grand EXP Grand Piano expansion
New Piano String Resonance Simulation
Full KB3 organ simulations with 9 sliders as drawbars
8 Zone MIDI Controller
Space for 1024 Factory and 1024 User Programs and Multis (16 Categories of Programs)
Arpeggiator with dedicated On/Off button (1 per Program, up to 8 in Multi Mode)
MP3 player audio input jack
Full 128 voices of polyphony
Hundreds of Effects Chains
So, one hi-def piano, and (presumably) one hi-def EP, plus the 128MB German D from the Artis. Not bad, IMO.
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That's because Numa is not in the States. I've never seen a Numa anything live, ever.
I've had a couple of Numa pianos and the Numa Organ (v1) - and I live in the States. Studiologic doesn't command a large portion of the keyboard market, but they do have a presence and distribution (AMS, I believe). The main problem with wider acceptance seems to have been the lack of response from the Italian parent when it comes to questions about issues, particularly relating to software.
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I've never had to pitch bend on my VR09 before now. I have noticed something weird about the pitch bend on the keyboard.
The first time I power the machine up and pitch bend down, it is completely wonky, stepping jaggedly (not smoothly and linearly) through a limited portion of the preset range, then jumping to the extreme once the joystick is moved far enough.
Thereafter, everything works normally. It is only on the first time I bend after powering on.
Anyone else run into this? Any solution live short of doing one initial pitch bend with the volume turned down upon powering up?
Yep, whacked pitch bend for about a second-and-a-half at first use after nearly every startup on mine, too. Just have to remember to flick the paddle before launching into that raging solo that starts up a quarter tone. I have one from early production (low serial number) and thought perhaps it was just a quirk of the first run units, but now perhaps it is simply another quirk of the model.
Same for me - and it can really mess things up if I forget to waggle it after startup. Seems like another bug that needs fixing.
As for the need to flick the paddle twice for Leslie speed, I suspect that's more likely to do with the relative MIDI vs software settings. I often have to push a controller button twice when using software, so as to align their positions.
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That has to be an agrivating bug.
Yes, and I've tracked it down. Nothing to do with the DP-10 (which works perfectly either in switch or continuous [half-pedal] mode), nor the OS update. It's the way I have some of my registrations set up. I'm not quite sure why, but it seems as if certain of my registrations are set as if they are the lower part of a split, and others are the upper (even though none are actually split). Further correction: it's simply how I have the pedal assigned! These are synth and organ voices that I normally don't use damper on (and I usually have the damper set to control the rotary speed, so have not previously noticed the anomaly). If, with damper set to control sustain, I hit a registration where the damper is not currently active, when I change the voice (say from organ to piano), the damper remains inactive. This threw me. So there's nothing wrong with the board - just the operator!
What I do wish is that the damper selection was similar to the Nord Electro, where you can have it as standard damper (sustain) on piano voices, and rotary when organ is selected.
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My Roland DP10 damper pedal has become intermittent since installing the upgrade. When it quits working I have to restart the VR to get it functioning again. I haven't tested it with another keyboard yet, but it has never given me any trouble before, and it seems unlikely that it's the pedal that's faulty if it starts working after a reboot of the board. Hmmmm...
As to the pitch thing, I think brenner may be right about tines tending to pitch up on damping (I vaguely recall that with my Wurli, although it could be false memory syndrome), but it was certainly the case with the Electro 2's Wurli - and it got kind of annoying after a while. However, IMO it's risky having those faders sitting there waiting to be jogged and unwittingly shifting the pitch on release.
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Are the old patches affected?
No.
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Can anybody else confirm this report of the EP release-pitch bug?
Yes. The semitone rise occurs on all new EP patches except the SA stack when increasing the release. Bizarrely, the Wurly rises by a whole tone!
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If any of you can find the Nord GBG2X gig bag (for the Nord G2X), it's the perfect bag for the VR-09, fits it like a glove, and offers all the thick padding and protection that Nord bags are renowned for. It's also perfect for the Axiom 61.
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Why do you need to "get used to" a sub par keyboard feel, and not buy one that actually feels good from the get go?
I played on a VR09 for an hour. I gave it a good workout. The bottom line is I couldn't connect with the keyboard feel itself. The sound engine part is fine as far as a budget board goes, but the keybed crossed it off of the "maybe I want this" list.
I'm still struggling a little with the VR-09's keyboard. However, I needed the synth engine in my second tier board, as well as a drawbar organ, and there's little out there that does that at a sensible price in a lightweight package. So I would agree that if only organ is required (or possibly organ plus piano), there are definitely better actions available in other boards.
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The biggest, most obvious mistake I see when a piano player attempts to play organ on a multifunction board is they use the sustain pedal.
Easily solved in a Nord Electro, for example, by setting the sustain pedal to operate as rotary switch for organ and damper for piano. In the VR-09 the OS omission is that the pedal is either a rotary switch or a damper (or something else) but cannot switch in parallel with the sound type. I'd much rather hear overuse of the rotary speed control than sustain on an organ patch while the user gets used to organ technique.
SP6
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Dirshort, you could try the sax patches from the PC3 objects. I'd recommend downloading it anyway - there are some really useful sounds. It's a pain trying to keep it all straight in the SP6, if you don't know what you'll need beforehand, but worth the effort. You just need to download the last PC3 OS file from Kurzweil, and extract the Objects file.
I, too, needed lighter weight - hence the SP6. I'd been banging on for years about the unnecessary (IMO) dumbing down of lightweight keyboards, and this is one of the few 88-key hammer action boards that meets the challenge.