Sundown
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Posts posted by Sundown
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49 minutes ago, bill5 said:
I think you answered your own question.
Well, let’s put it this way … When I renew my annual Waves coverage, I’m paying the plan maximum (about $240)… If they counted my plugins it would be higher.
Todd
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Hey all,
I have a hypothesis about chocolate…
If you put full-sized candy bars in a bowl, most people will walk right past. They have the self-control to say no, or they just aren’t interested in an entire candy bar.
But if you fill that same bowl with miniature candy bars (the kind handed out at Halloween), not only will people eat them, they will eat more than they would if it was just a single full-sized bar. Sometimes much more …
When I see the prices charged for some plug-ins, I wonder if it’s the same effect. I own *a lot* of Waves plugins. And most of them were purchased for somewhere between $19 and $35 over a long period of time. When I first started, I paid at least $200-300 for the Native Powerpack and The Renaissance Collection (each), and those bundles weren’t nearly as good as the Waves plugins available now.
Similarly, I’m a sucker for the annual holiday sales. I own *a lot* of UA plugins, and many of them were purchased during holiday binges. It’s hard to say no to $99 on a plugin that costs $299 throughout the year.
Both companies have been around for a while and I hope they are on good financial footing, but I wonder how they can afford to sell plugins so cheap, when the R&D and proprietary coding must take a long, long, long time to develop and fine-tune.
Thoughts?
Todd
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There are so many sales right now … I just checked Korg’s site and the Triton, Prohpecy, etc. are at very low prices. I’ve had my eye on the Triton for a while. I own the M1 and Wavestation plugins, and they sit very well in mixes. I’m hoping the same from the Triton. I’d like to pick-up the PolySix as well.
Arturia has the V-collection at a great upgrade price, but I never actually use their instruments in songs. To be fair, my PC is 11 years old and some of the Arturia plugs are resource-heavy, but there’s something about them that makes them fun to play, but not so useful in compositions. That could be my own personal taste or hang-up, but of all the instruments in that collection, you won’t find a single instance in my productions. All that said, the SQ80 sounds great in demos. The DX7 is good too (which I own right now), but it sucks up a lot of juice.
Todd
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I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos with Chris Lord Alge and Bob Clearmountain. CLA does quite a few interviews and how-to sessions, which is great. Both individuals are heavy users of SSL boards, and one thing that amazes me is how often they are using the board EQ and compression. Let me revise that statement … It amazes me how often they used the board EQ and compression on big 80’s/90’s mixes. Now they are using plugins more and more and the desk is reserved for summing, gain control (faders), and patching to outboard, etc.
Both individuals have substantial outboard (including any number of outboard EQs and compressors), but whether it was convenience, speed, or the sheer capability of a top flight console, they used the onboard console EQ and channel compression on a lot of great, iconic tunes.
I think about the ultra-surgical, multi-node EQ options we have now (including Linear Phase offerings) and so many great tunes were engineered with a four band semi-parametric board EQ. It’s amazing to watch how fast these seasoned pros can work.
Todd
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A close friend of mine who is more into Turntablism and sample-based music is using RipX and has been pretty pleased with the results. I’ve heard them, and while I’m blown away that any type of extraction is possible, there are definitely a lot of artifacts. I wouldn’t consider the parts useable absent a very thick backdrop that masks the interpolation/extrapolation and side effects.
I think it’s an interesting learning / investigative tool, but I don’t really work with samples and loops in that way and I wouldn’t spend the money on SpectraLayers, etc.
Much like ReCycle, Melodyne, etc. started as standalone applications, it wouldn’t surprise me if the major DAWs incorporate some of this functionality in the next few years.
Todd
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On 11/15/2023 at 2:16 PM, Konnector said:
I'd like to see the industry migrate all synth/semi-weighted keys to waterfall. No reason not to. I doubt they'd cost more to make. The advantage is obvious. I don't know of any advantage a diving board style key has over a waterfall key.
I can’t argue with that … Visually it would be a bit of an adjustment, but functionally it would make a lot of sense.
Here’s a funny aside:
My parents own a Grinnell Brothers upright piano from the late 50’s or early 60’s (it was restored a decade ago). It’s what I learned on as a kid. The timbre and attack are not as shrill as your typical upright (it’s a more mellow tone), but what makes it really unique are the waterfall keys. They are fully-weighted piano keys, but the tips are definitely waterfalls as opposed to ledges or diving boards. The radius on the tip is probably an eighth inch, maybe a bit less.
I never knew anything different and I never considered it unusual, but I’ve never seen another piano with similar keys.
Todd
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There are two certainties this time of year: Mariah Carey and insanely great sales on plug-ins.
I just picked up the Marshall Silver Jubilee, The Friedman Buxom Betty, and the Studer A800 from UA.
Good times …
Todd
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I prefer at least the two extremes … A solid 88-key weighted action and a light synth-action board. I’m a home studio rat so nothing moves or travels. If I’m truly honest with myself, I could still produce my music with just a synth action. My piano parts feel good with a weighted action, but the listener couldn’t care less.
I use a Kawai MP11 for my 88-board and I primarily use a Kurzweil PC361 for my main synth controller. I have a Roland D-20 above it that I keep for nostalgia/sentimental value and I use it for some drum parts, very fast leads, and some organ parts, particularly palm smears. It has a very quick key return and a velocity curve I know well. The Kurz just feels good for many parts and I can quickly adjust it’s sensitivity and behavior.
My Kurz gets way more use than my MP11 right now. It’s just quick to lay down parts and I really only use the MP11 for piano and electric piano. When I see dudes playing organ parts or synth leads on a weighted action I’m always amazed. I couldn’t do it … My fingers or my mindset isn’t there.
I will say that my preferences leave me in the cold with many new boards. I have no intention of replacing my MP11 for a very long time, and I don’t want another weighted board … I love that Kurzweil has offered some newer boards (Forte, PC4, K2700), but they are all furniture. Give me a rack, a table top, or at least a 61-key or 76-key synth action variant. I simply won’t buy another 88-key instrument and I don’t want a semi-weighted board either.
I like that Yamaha still offers their flagship in three flavors (a trend I believe started with the Korg T-series in ~1989). You can get the 61, the 76, or weighted 88. That makes a lot of sense to me …
Todd
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10 minutes ago, bill5 said:
In some cases you may be able to simply rename the DLL file.
That may be true with some, Bill. I’ll give it a shot with this one.
👍
Todd
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Hey all,
We all know many large studios have closed, and some of the mixing/recording icons that use large format consoles are getting older. Companies like SSL still sell large format desks (like the Duality line), but I doubt they are selling many units. And if someone is trying to build a commercial studio, I don’t know that they are going to put $150K+ into the console. That money buys a lot of other things.
So in 30 years, will the large-format console be completely obsolete? I suspect a few of the famous vintage units will still be maintained and owned by enthusiasts, but I doubt many studios will have them or use them as part of their workflow.
I’ve never had the pleasure of working behind one, but I can understand the appeal, even in a DAW world. If a mix is a performance, having most of the physical controls right in front of you (with automation) provides a lot of workflow advantages.
So will a commercial studio in 30 years still have a big 72 channel desk? Will it have a control surface equivalent? Or are we headed somewhere else?
Todd
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It’s great that companies continue to develop products and in some cases (especially with effects plug-ins) you can get a higher version for free, just for being a loyal user and for buying the original product.
But man oh man, I hate when those updates rename the plugin … I won’t call anyone out by name, but a few plugin manufacturers have changed names with version updates and that really screws up a prior session (especially if the version bump overwrites the old plugin).
I just updated an EQ plugin and I didn’t notice that the name had changed ever so slightly. I opened up an older session, and sure enough, any reference to the old plugin are lost (along with the settings).
Now, no one forced me to do the update but let’s face it, if a new version with new capabilities comes along and it’s free, most people are going to jump. And as a plugin manufacturer all you have to do is name your products with a version-agnostic title.
I need to remix this particular session anyway so I’m not going to cry over spilt milk, but it really is an easily avoidable problem. Choose a plugin name that doesn’t include the version number, and don’t change it … Ever.
Todd
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Very cool, Craig. I’ll have to get it. I definitely need to improve my EQ chops and I always learn a lot from your books.
I already own Pro Q3, but I would agree, once you experience it it’s hard to use something else. The display, the control, and the workflow is hard to match (not to mention the fact that it’s a Dynamic EQ, which is great in and of itself). I rarely use anything else for mixing.
Todd
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I also think there is magic in imperfection. Listen to Bob Dylan’s “Like a Rolling Stone”. Al Kooper is late by an eighth, it’s rough as can be, but it’s the epitome of perfection as-is.
My oldest brother had a high school band and they did a 2-track live demo (around 1986). He will point out the flaws and they legitimately bother him, but I think it sounds great and the overall energy far outshines any glitches or missed notes. If they did it in 1980 or ‘81, they would have probably landed a one or two LP deal. They were just too late with their material versus the audience.
I like a good cover … When an artist covers another artist’s material and takes it in a totally different direction, that can be exciting. But generally redoing the past with the same artist doesn’t eclipse the past.
Rick Wakeman once said (paraphrased) “When I play a classic track, I try to look at my gear and say ‘What sound would I use if *this* was at my disposal back then?” I hate to say it, but Rick, you had it right the first time.
Todd
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Good advice …
After completing my update of a lifetime, I found that a few of my Cubase projects were pointing to audio files in unexpected locations (elsewhere on the drive). I did all of the proper precautions before updating, but I still got burned. It was a backup from 2019 that saved a few key projects from major re-work.
With the low cost of drives (and external USB drives), boy it makes sense to back your stuff up periodically.
Todd
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I can only think of a few professional examples where it has turned out well. Using a hair band as an example, Whitesnake’s 1987 re-do of “Here I Go Again” is way better than the 1982 original. But I’ve heard plenty of artists try to re-do their stuff and generally it’s a big disappointment.
I’m an amateur instrumental keyboard musician, so for me, it’s a question of whether technology or maturity would now produce a better result than my original. But far more often than not, I want to put old material aside and focus on something new.
Todd
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Flow Motion sounds pretty cool from the on-line demos … I like FM synths and it seems to have its own unique color and timbre. For 30 bucks I can’t go wrong.
Great tip on user preset management, with the preceding number …
Todd
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Hey all,
Like many, I’ve used Waves plugins for years. I think they’ve become a much cooler company in the last decade with their offerings. My first buy was the Native Powerpack and Renaissance collection (for Cubase VST), but I think they really hit their stride with the SSL, API, Abbey Road, and Urei collections. I also like their monthly pricing specials.
All that being said, I’ve never really tried their synths. This past week I bought Element 2.0 and CR8. I’m still working with CR8 to judge it properly, but I have gone through Element 2.0 quite a bit. For the thirty bucks I paid, it’s great bang for the buck. But set aside the price, overall I’m quite happy with the presets and the interface. I’ve found quite a few sounds I like and I can quickly dial-in changes to make them better or more fitting.
The only glaring miss is the librarian (or the lack thereof). I’ve come to rely on ratings for sounds to sort the wheat from the chaff, and the lack of a rating system makes sorting presets a bit more difficult. As best I can tell, the functionality isn’t there.
Element 2.0 is a bit CPU hungry, but some of that might be the built-in effects. Again, for thirty bucks I can’t really complain about anything. But most everyone offers a rating system now, and I was a bit surprised that Waves hasn’t joined the party (on Element or CR8).
Todd
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On 10/28/2023 at 11:09 PM, Anderton said:
I could be wrong, but I think some of them would require lots of CPU power. That's a red flag for complaints from people who don't understand how things work..."I put a Manley Massive Passive on each background vocal track, and my DAW crashed. UA sucks." People complain about amp sims sucking up CPU power, but there's really no way around it if you want decent sound quality.
I guess UA could always include a disclaimer, like "after you get the sound you want, render the track." Not that anyone actually reads the documentation... 😆
I’m actually pretty optimistic, Craig … Granted, my UAD-2 PCIe card is just a Duo, but with my 11 year-old CPU, the native UAD plugins run much better on my host CPU than they do on the dedicated card. Whether it’s the LA-2A or the Lexicon 224, Boy they run much better on the host CPU than the dedicated chips.
Maybe a 480 will be different (and much hungrier), but based on my experience to date, I’ll take my chances with native versus the hardware.
Todd
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It’s funny… Just before this post appeared, I was thinking about finally moving to 48 KHz for new projects. I’ve been recording at 44.1 KHz / 32 bit floating point resolution forever (which is of course 24 bit AD/DA). It’s less likely these days that I’ll deliver any physical medium or CDs (even for the amateur, friends-only projects I might share), and 48 KHz starts to make more sense for online delivery.
I don’t see any value in 96 KHz for what I do (absent Craig’s examples of in-the-box synths and anti-aliasing). Latency at 128 to 256 samples (and 44.1 KHz) is fully manageable to me, so the faster response at 96KHz isn’t appealing. Maybe when I get a new DAW in 2 years 96 KHz will be the norm.
Todd
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On 10/29/2023 at 5:44 PM, Anderton said:
That's true for audio signals that aren't generated in the box. But audio generated within a computer (particularly from amp sims, synths with rich harmonic waveforms, and ultra-fast-response limiters) can benefit from 96 kHz because the frequency for foldover distortion is so much higher.
BUT that doesn't mean you have to run sessions at 96 kHz, and deal with more stress on your CPU and bigger file sizes. Many plugins have internal oversampling, which basically delivers high-sample-rate performance at lower sample rates. The tradeoff is more CPU stress but 96 kHz does that anyway.
For plugins that don't oversample, I just change the sample rate of my project temporarily to 192 kHz and render at that sample rate. There's no foldover distortion, and when the rendered audio gets downshifted to 44.1 or 48 kHz, there's no aliasing because it's audio - it's not generating anything that could interfere with the clock frequency. Sample rate conversion is so good these days there's no issue regarding degraded sound quality.
This, and more, is explained in Chapter 4 of The Musician's Audio Handbook. I'd recommend it highly even if I hadn't written it
I’ve heard this before, possibly from you Craig. I remember someone talking about the old NI Pro-53 (which I still think is a good plugin, despite not being 64bit or supported anymore). They said it really came to life at 96 KHz. I thought i was quite good at 44.1 KHz.
I’ll have to experiment with the rendering / export method for leveraging higher rates without changing the long-term session rate.
Todd
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17 hours ago, RABid said:
Hopefully when I need a new audio interface they will have most of the plugins converted.
I’m hoping the same. I don’t intend to get an Apollo any time soon (I like my RME front-end), but I have thought about buying a used UAD-2 Quad PCIe, or dropping a grand on a new Octo card. I only have a duo and that doesn’t go very far with some of the latest plugins. But if they are going the native route en masse, I don’t want to waste a grand either. I like UAD a lot, but a grand buys *a lot* of other plugins from other manufacturers.
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Hey all,
UA has been very gradually adding plugins to the native platform, and they recently gave away a free LA2A plugin from their Classic Leveler Collection (which you can still get up to October 31st). I trust that’s to generate interest and buzz and get people to subscribe.
But if they are wondering what the tipping point is (for me anyway), it’s getting the Lexicon LX480 over to the native platform. They have the 224 on there already (and it’s very CPU efficient in native format), but no LX480 yet. They just added the dbx160 compressor this week but that doesn’t excite me.
But the LX480 is the one … Get that on the native platform and they’ll have at least one new subscriber.
I have Relab’s LX480 Essentials plugin (which is very efficient and quite good), but I tend to like the UAD version. But it occupies so much of my PCIe card, I can really only run one instance. I’m hoping the native version (when it eventually comes out) gives me some more bandwidth.
The other gem I’d like to see migrated is the Marshall Silver Jubilee 2555 head. From the online demos, this seems to produce a good range of guitar tones I like.
Anyways, I look forward to more plugins running on native CPUs, but it seems to be a really slow transition.
Todd
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7 hours ago, Stokely said:
I saw an interesting vid where someone went through each track kind of "normalizing" gains (almost the opposite of what you were mentioning!) before any mixing was done...even region by region if there were jumps in say a vocal track.
Yep - I’ve seen that too. I guess the argument is that faders are more sensitive at unity, so turning down gain pre-fader preserves that resolution.
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Thanks again guys - Huge help.
Todd
Know your customer … And it may not be the buyer…
in Craig Anderton's Sound, Studio, and Stage
Posted
Hey all,
I’ve suggested privately to many plug-in / software providers to offer gift cards. From a license/copy protection perspective I need to be the owner of my software, but a gift card allows my wife to give me something of meaning, without understanding the details. To date, no one that I know of has done it or taken me up on the idea.
It reminds me of a reality in my profession, which is automobiles. I’m a mechanical engineer, but I do work with marketing and if you want to market an automobile, you better be sure you are marketing to the actual decision maker. You can’t advertise and market to a dude who wants a sports car … You need to market to the couple, who make the big spending decisions. Not all of us are married or in relationships, but many of us are, and no successful dude makes a major purchase decision without buy-in from his spouse.
Plug-in / software vendors can apply the same learnings … Offer gift cards. Maybe you apply your creativity to make them special and custom so that they aren’t just a cash value (maybe you allow a special, custom message for the receiver). Maybe you provide a cool, physical medium that can be packaged like a gift. Any way you slice it, you are losing sales by not offering gift cards.
But you can apply the same learnings to pricing … I can easily justify (if not even mention) a $30 or $50 dollar purchase in a given month. If your plugin costs $600, that’s starting to become a discussion item. Clearly many plug-in manufacturers have learned this and offer plug-ins at very low, seasonal prices.
Again, the customer base may be single, in a relationship, or married, but if you’re not thinking about the other half, you might be missing the real decision maker.
Todd