Sundown
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Posts posted by Sundown
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17 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:
Thriller ~Michael Jackson (The synth bass)
There’s a lot of good stuff in there … The huge Jupiter brass at the beginning, the synth bass, and the “frog” sound from an old Casio. There are quite a few YouTube videos about how those sounds were made (from the people who made them).
Todd
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I always like the Jupiter / OB-X combo on Stevie Nicks’ “Stand Back”. It’s believed that Prince played the parts, but there is some debate about that.
It’s another Van Halen track, but the hard-sync’d Oberheim mono/unison part on “Why Can’t This Be Love?” is amazing.
On the softer side, I’ve always loved the heavily-filtered Prophet 5 on Genesis’ “Man on the Corner”. Coupled with the 808 and the other parts, it’s a remarkable track.
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3 hours ago, Stokely said:
Another thing I need to get into doing, and I suppose most or all DAWs have something similar, is saving the channel strip if say I'm using a combination of plugins often.
I think software is getting better overall in this arena. With the latest version of Cubase you can store presets for inserts, etc. and you can certainly create a starting project that has all of your channel setups in place. I hate having to disable/enable plugin delay compensation (so I don’t like to add a bunch of processors by default), but you can always save your template with the processors turned off and they are just a click away.
Todd
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14 hours ago, Anderton said:
Even after digital had progressed, a lot of engineers recorded on analog but then transferred to digital to prevent degradation.
I’m not sure how common it is today (given the price and availability of tape and machines), but for a while a lot of professionals were recording to tape and then transferring it to Pro Tools for editing. We can say all we want about tape’s good qualities, but it’s game-over when it comes to editing capability. DAWs win hands-down. I’m not sure how editing was done with digital multi-track (maybe the machines had some RAM to temporarily store data), but I don’t think cutting and splicing zeroes and ones would work.
Todd
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On 12/24/2023 at 10:54 AM, analogika said:
“Clearly” meaning “absolutely done on 32-track digital Mitsubishi tape machines that were the current standard at the time”. 😉
The digital studio age began around 1980. Alan Parsons’ “Eye in the Sky” was a digital production AFAIK and released in 1982.
A good rundown of what made the sound, here:
That’s a good article, thank you.
I would not have guessed it was done on a digital multi-track, as I don’t agree that digital multi-track was abundant in 1988/1989. Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms” was one of the first digital multitracked albums (Sony 24-track) and that was released in 1985. Alan Parson’s “Eye In The Sky” might have had a digital 2-track master, but it was not multi-tracked digitally to my knowledge (though there is certainly a lot of debate about that album on the internet).
Todd
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No surprise, you can do the same thing with VST instruments and sort the wheat from the chaff…
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This is tangential, but it would seem that one of the greatest mixes one could hear, is only available on CD.
Madonna’s “Lucky Star” from the Immaculate Collection is available on TIDAL and other streaming services, but I can tell you the mix is off … When you listen to the original CD version, the panning and stereo image is completely different. The CD version is an auditory roller coaster and one of the best pre-listens you can do before a mix session (to awaken your stereo sensitivity). The versions on TIDAL, etc. omit most of the panning.
If Craig’s list of movies is true, that’s disappointing. I should be able to login to Netflix and see old movies without issue. It’s not like storage isn’t pennies on the dollar.
Todd
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Her voice is remarkably smooth as well.
I think it helps that the track isn’t squashed either. If your typical distributed master is averaging 12-14 LUFS, this is averaging 20 (I measured it).
Todd
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4 hours ago, Anderton said:
I tried out the software M1 when it was first released, many (many) years ago. I was surprised at how much better it sounded than the hardware. Then I realized - the hardware used the, uh, less-than-stellar D/A converters of that time. The software version gets to play back through my 21st century D/A converters. Big difference!!
The other thing Korg has done (which I think is great) is they have made updates to capability and architecture where they can. For example, the original Korg Wavestation didn’t have a resonant filter. I know that all too well, being an original owner from ~1991. It had an Exciter parameter which wasn’t sonically interesting, and otherwise the LPF was really boring. The plug-in gives you the choice of either the legacy Exciter-based filter or a new resonant filter. Mind you, I wouldn’t say it’s a great resonant filter, but it’s an effort and I appreciate it.
I think about all the ROM memory that was wasted in the original unit due to the lack of a good resonant LPF. There were countless short samples strung together (“time slices” in Korg-speak) to recreate that analog sound in a few Performances.
Todd
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The only “dud” of the season was the UAD Studio D chorus (Dimension D replica), and shame on me, I didn’t try the demo first. It was an impulse buy when I had a second coupon. And it’s a fine sounding chorus, it just needs a wet/dry mix to make it more useful. On even the lightest setting, it’s a bit too much for my ears. I generally use the free TAL-Chorus-LX (which has a wet/dry control) and at low settings, it’s a great sounding plug-in on guitar, bass, etc.
The other disappointment (not in terms of accuracy but in terms of usefulness to me) was the UAD Pultec collection. For what I do, Pultecs just aren’t that useful (and if you really want those Gerzon shelves you can create them in other plug-ins). To be fair, I haven’t tried them on guitar or voice recordings, but for keyboards I don’t find them that useful.
But it’s been a great season … I picked up a lot of toys for not a lot of money. The real stand-outs were the Manley Massive Passive (UAD), the EL-8 Distressor (UAD), and the latest Korg Collection. Though I haven’t used it much yet, I’m looking forward to trying the AMS reverb on my latest mix (UAD). And I have to give an honorable mention to the SSL E-Channel (Waves). I had the G-Channel already, but I like the bell options on the E-series EQ.
Todd
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For anyone who grew up in the eighties or nineties, that Korg Collection is a lot of fun and a great value when it goes on sale.
Most of the instruments offer something, but my favorites are typically the ROMplers (M1 and Triton) when they are emulating an analog or digital synth. With some filtering and envelope tweaks you can get some great sounding patches that really sit in a mix. I’m less interested in the “realistic” sounds (e.g. oboe’s, pianos, etc). The PolySix is a lot of fun as well. It was a good instrument and alternative to the Juno 106 at the time.
I’d love it if they tackled the DS-8 FM synth, but I don’t know if it has enough of a following.
I almost always kill-off onboard effects if I’m recording a part (unless it’s an integral part of the sound like a special EQ, Chorus, or Phaser), but one common complaint about the M1 is the amount of reverb on the patches. I don’t remember the hardware unit being so drenched, but it’s been a while. It’s easy enough to fix but when you’re cycling through patches it’s like being in a bright cave.
Todd
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Hi Craig. Good article. Since I read your EQ book, I always use Linear Phase with Pro Q3 for HPF, typically to a “High”. It doesn’t have the slick feature of only doing Linear Phase for the HPF (like Studio One), but even my 11-year-old PC can handle a lot of instances of Pro Q3 with Linear Phase on High. I rarely use “Very High” or “Maximum” as you can’t do Dynamic EQ at those settings. Linear Phase filtering is another reason I don’t typically use the built-in Pre filters on Cubase.
I have recorded acoustic instruments or voice at times, but 90% of my work is synths and samplers so the parallel/phase issue is less of an concern. But these synthetic instruments tend to push out a lot of energy at sub-sonic levels, so filtering has become second nature to me.
Todd
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Hey all,
My workflow is a bit different. I almost never use the built-in console features in Cubase (e.g. EQ, Compressor, etc). Other than providing a level fader and a pan control, the console is really just a set of insert and send slots for me.
I’m sure there is nothing wrong with the Cubase EQ, but if I’m going to be doing any EQ’ing (and I always will be), it’s just easier for me to use Pro Q3 for consistency. I’m always rolling off anything below 30 Hz (and typically anything above 15-18 KHz) and I’m typically dipping-out mud in the 200-400 Hz range. And usually if I’m stacking multiple parts, I’ll need to carve-out more of the high or low-end to get a nice blend. Reverb and Delay returns also get a Q3 instance (typically with high and low roll-off) right before the reverb or delay plug.
The same is true of reverb and delay. The factory ones are probably fine, but I don’t want to go diving through sub-menus and hunting for the instance I want. And if I’m going to use a reverb or delay, I might as well aim for the best quality (which is typically going to be third-party).
I always try to fix issues first through the arrangement, then through synth programming, but once I get into mixing I find it easier to just use a consistent set of insert plug-ins that I know really well. I don’t want to stare at the tiny knobs in Cubase.
Again, different strokes.
Todd
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Hey all,
This is one of the reference tracks I use when mixing.
“Watermark” was a 1988 album so it was certainly done on tape, but I don’t know how they got this track to sound so smooth. On a good set of monitors (with a better source than YouTube) it sounds amazing.
It’s a great reference for a keyboard player when aiming for a smooth sound.
Todd
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Hey all,
I’m sure most DAWs support this, but having moved to Cubase 12 Pro from 6.5 earlier in the year, being able to create a custom, simplified plug-in selection is new to me, and Boy is it welcome …
Whether you own a lot of plug-ins or you’re simply overwhelmed with the bundled, factory choices, being able to create your own folders and only show the ones you really use is a huge workflow improvement. There’s no more diving through sub-menus to find a plug-in you use 90% of the time.
You’ll notice on the right-hand side that (in addition to my “Go-Tos” folder) I put Fabfilter’s Pro Q3 equalizer and Klanghelm’s VUMT meter outside of the folders and at the very top of the list. I use them so often that I don’t want to have to menu dive at all.
I did the same type of customizations in Wavelab 11, and Boy it really speeds up workflow and makes mixing/production more enjoyable.
Todd
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I got pulled in again … Once UAD starts throwing in the $25 coupons (coupled with ridiculously low prices), it’s game over.
I picked up the Manley Vari Mu and Massive Passive ~last week, and today I snagged the updated 1176 collection and the Roland Studio D chorus. I usually use the TAL-Chorus-LX which is free and sounds great, but I couldn’t pass on the Roland for ~$14 with coupon. As for my commitment to stop buying more compressors, you can see how well that’s working out.
Todd
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Hey all,
I have no connection to Brainworx, but I do find their bx_refinement tool to be extremely effective at taming harshness on certain synth sounds. I struggled for a long time to smooth-out a particular part (from synth programming tweaks to EQ to tape saturation to compression), and it was this plugin that made the difference. It really took some nasty overtones and resonances out of a critical part that was otherwise perfect.
UAD offers a version as does Plugin Alliance (I have the latter), and if you run into parts periodically that sound harsh it’s worth a try.
Todd
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22 hours ago, Anderton said:
Your consolation is only people like us listen to sound. The real world listens to music. Concentrate on that, and the rabbit holes will take care of themselves.
Hi Craig. It’s the people like us though, whose feedback I most value.
I do agree with you that most of the population doesn’t hear details or depth. My own hearing and sensitivity has improved tremendously over the years, so it must be a “muscle” that develops with focus and practice. It also helps when you’re listening in a treated room or with great headphones.
But I do have a hypothesis that with some types of music, great sonics draw people in, though they can’t necessarily put their finger on why.
We’ll see how it turns out.
Todd
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Hey all,
This is the time of year that is make-or-break for me music-wise … I’m a middle-aged amateur studio rat / keyboard player and that’s all I aspire to be, but it’s the one time of year (based on vacations and down-time) that I can complete the most work contiguously. It’s the only time of year that I can take full days to focus on music and production.
My goal for the next week-and-a-half is to complete one mix / production to publication. Maybe that’s YouTube, Spotify, etc. But more important it’s an acceptance that for a given song or track, it’s the best I can do right now, and it’s finished. With my young kids, it’s not really a week and a half, but it’s still the most contiguous time I have for this critical hobby and pursuit.
I find that writing down goals a the session is important. Without a punch list, you can get sucked into the blackhole of endless improvements / tweaks that lead to outdistancing finish lines. If I write down my specific fixes and goals for my time, I find I can get closer to the completion point.
I think we all struggle with finishing projects to some extent, for fear of being judged unworthy. I’m going to do my best to finish a track or two (no matter how good or bad) and put it out into the world.
Todd
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On 12/16/2023 at 11:33 PM, Anderton said:
Given that Nuendo is Atmos-friendly, you might want to mention to Steinberg that this kind of intermediate routing option will become increasingly important if multichannel immersive sound takes over the world. So they might as well get in on the ground floor! Routing audio to 7.1.2 or whatever is a lot more complicated than stereo.
Hi Craig - I was thinking about your comment, and to date, nothing feature-wise has ever made me want to cross-grade to Nuendo. Most of the differences are really for film and post and of no interest to me as a musician. But, if Steinberg did put this functionality only in Nuendo, I would jump. I want the routing that badly. But I still think it belongs in Cubase and I think it would be pretty straightforward to implement (given the other routing changes they’ve made in v13).
I will mention the Atmos consideration to my marketing friend. Thanks again.
Todd
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It’s irritating … I’m a PC guy, but I still have an old M-Audio FireWire interface that I would use for mobile recording if I had a laptop that had a port.
Clearly the near-term future is USB-C and Thunderbolt, but it sure has been a turbulent decade or two for connectivity.
Todd
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I’m OK with taking a thousand dollar risk on PCIe. It will eventually go away, but I don’t see it in the next 3-5 years. After five years who knows.
I just thank my lucky stars that I hitched my wagon to UAD and not the competing solution at the time (TC Electronic Powercore). That would be a paperweight today.
I bought my first UAD-1 as a Mackie product on impulse, then I bought a second used UAD-1 card, and then when I bought my RokBox in 2012 I traded up and got a UAD-2 Duo. If I can find an Octo at a good price around March, I’ll keep my Duo and hopefully have 10 chips at my disposal. And then I’ll hopefully carry it over in 2025 with my next RokBox.
Todd
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6 hours ago, Nowarezman said:
If I was in your shoes, I'd at least look at used UA interfaces that come with plugin processing power. Especially if the UA interface would be an upgrade in pre-amps and conversion quality.
Hi Nat,
I definitely gave that some thought, but I don’t think an Apollo would be an improvement over my current RME setup. I really only need two inputs and an Apollo would drive the need for a Thunderbolt card, etc.
But I appreciate the suggestion. I definitely considered that.
Todd
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Hey all,
I know UAD is clearly transitioning to native hosting, but it’s going to take a loooong time … They have a huge catalog and while they could choose to scuttle a few or leave them on hardware-only (e.g. Cambridge EQ, the old Dreamverb, etc.), at the rate they are going it’s going to take a long time to port everything.
So I think I want to get an Octo card to replace or bolster my current Duo card. Some of the newer plugs are definitely more hungry (Lexicon 480L comes to mind). With an Octo I could run four or more reverbs whereas right now I’m pretty much capped to one instance. That’s a big boost in processing, and that’s just using a single hungry plugin as an example. When you spread eight chips across many varying plugins, it’s a big boost.
They are on sale or available for about a grand. I could buy one used, but if it’s no returns, I’m reluctant to do that (though I did buy a first gen UAD-1 card used many years ago).
The only uncertainty I have given the age of my PC, is whether the plugins put any load on my host CPU. In other words, do I have a host constraint with PCIe-based plugins, or is the heavy lifting really only being done by the card. I’ll have to try some experiments but the Cubase performance meter in v12 is not that reliable or clear.
I’m expecting to get a top-flight, state-of-the-art RokBox in early 2025 and I figure an Octo card (and perhaps my Duo card) can soldier-on for plugins that aren’t native yet. And I suspect that will still be a sizable list in early ‘25.
Todd
If Universal Audio is wondering …
in Craig Anderton's Sound, Studio, and Stage
Posted
Yep - I don’t recall exactly when that happened, but it was before I bought it in November/December. The Vari-Mu is still DSP-based, but Massive Passive is now native.
I bought the AMS RMX16 reverb in December, and holy cow, that’s another one I’m eagerly awaiting a native version of. On my UAD-2 Duo, I can get maybe 2 or 3 instances but that’s it. It’s not as hungry as the 480 XL, but it’s hungry.
The RMX16 isn’t a do-all reverb, but the sounds it does do are amazing. The Hall, Non-Lin, Ambience, and Reverse programs are wonderful. And the Chorus and Delay programs are quite good too. I’m working on a track right now and I could happily use four instances for variety, along with using a short/modest hall for the mix reverb. I bought it on a whim for $49 and it’s been a stunner.
Todd