Cheapest iPad Model for Running iOS Keys Apps?

[Noah DC]

I run a few basic iOS apps through my old iPhone 6s with a Korg Plugkey. But recently, I wondered whether iPad tech has progressed enough that it would be worth picking up one of the older models that are able to run even the heavier apps without much latency, similar to how iPhone 6s does now. What's the cheapest/oldest iPad model that would run keys apps and how much would it cost me? Let's say my hypothetical budget is in the $150 - 250 range - I have no idea if that's realistic since I don't know much about iPads. The apps I currently run or would add if I got an iPad include Ravenscroft, Korg Module with Ivory and Scarbee, Moog Model D, and the Mellotron. If there is already a thread on this that I missed, feel free to just drop it in there as a reply.

[AnotherScott]

The Korg Module specs might help a little as a reference point indicating how different models compare in performance:

 

OS

iOS 11 or later

 

Device

iPad Air / iPhone 5s or later (64bit device required)

 

Devices and Approximate Polyphony

iPad Pro: 112 voices

iPad Air, iPad Air 2, iPad mini: 72 voices

iPad Air 1, iPad mini 3, iPad mini 2: 64 voices

iPhone Xs, iPhone X, iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus: 112 voices

iPhone7, iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus,

iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus: 72 voices

iPhone 5s, Sixth-generation iPod touch: 64 voices

 

*To enjoy the best experience, we recommend using the latest model of iPad / iPhone.

*The polyphony will depend on the sounds and on the latency setting.

[drawback]

I have a 2018 6th Generation iPad. It came off the shelf with a A10 Fusion chip. 2.34 GHz quad-core 64 bit, 2GB RAM, 132GB Storage.

 

I'd had no issues with anything up until I started using Hammond B-3X simultaneously with a couple of other apps that need to use a lot of CPU. Right now, I'm using AUM as a host/mixer and load Ravenscroft, VTines, B-3X, Pure Synth Platinum, iSymphonic, and iFretless Bass all in the same time. No problem at all running Module although the app has a bit of latency which I can deal with.

 

By now, iPads like mine should be plentiful on the used market, and I don't think you'll experience problems based on your requirements. Just be aware â what you think will be all you want today may change later so don't cheap out if you have a choice. The goldfish principle

[Reezekeys]

Latency would be the deal-killer, I think. Older i-devices can run these apps but those Korg Module specs don't list a buffer setting for those # of voices stats.

 

I am also very interested in having an iPad-only setup for local gigs that only require the basics like piano & ep by themselves. I've borrowed my wife's iPad Air 2 and with my very limited experience so far it seems to work with the free Korg piano at a 64 sample buffer and give me adequate polyphony. I also just got VTines and am working with that. Based on my experience up to now my guess is that I could get through a gig with this Air 2. However I've only run these two apps by themselves at different times - I have yet to explore loading more than one instrument simultaneously and using a separate app to switch, mix, etc.

[ElmerJFudd]

You"re always better off picking up the newest model iPad, and as well spec"d a version as you can afford. Apple only supports them with OS updates for app. 5 years. So if you grab last years model that"s already down to 4 years, or 3 years, etc. Essentially, Apple and other mobile developers have figured out how to have us rent/lease their devices and still have it appear to us like we"ve bought them.

[Noah DC]

Thanks, all. Taking Scott's point about app specs as a reference point, for B-3X, Hammond recommends: iPad 6th Generation (2018), iPad Air 3rd Generation (2019), iPad Mini 5th Generation (2019), and iPad Pro 2nd Generation (2017). The iPad 6th Generation seems to be most affordable of those models (I also don't see much difference between that model and the other slightly less powerful ones). Between those listings and drawback's affirmation that the 6 generation model works for a range of apps, it sounds like that's the iPad to go after.

 

Anyone have thoughts on whether you can get by on 32GB storage? Assuming I'd really only use it for iOS apps - and maybe a couple media/Netflix-types apps on the side.

[brenner13]

Mine"s a 6th gen with 128gb...I own nearly every iOS synth, piano, organ; many sample libraries, effects, and several DAW"s. I must keep deleting lesser used apps to make more room when recording new projects. Get one with as must storage space as possible.

[AnotherScott]

iPad 6th Generation (2018), iPad Air 3rd Generation (2019), iPad Mini 5th Generation (2019), and iPad Pro 2nd Generation (2017). The iPad 6th Generation seems to be most affordable of those models

Worth noting: iPad 6th gen has 2 GB RAM, same as your iPhone 6S; iPad Air 3rd gen and iPad Mini 5th gen have 3 GB RAM; iPad Pro 2nd gen has 6 GB RAM. For running one app at a time, it is unlikley to be significant. But if you're going to run multiple apps simultaneously (say, Module responding to one MIDI channel while Model D runs on another, and so on), more RAM becomes a bigger advantage. The more apps you want to run (and the more memory each of them uses), the more of a difference it will make. But if the combination you want to run works on your iPhone 6S, it will probably work on the iPad 6th gen. The reason I say only "probably" is that, even though the two models both have 2 GB RAM, the iPad has a bit less of it available to applications than the 6S does, because the iPad has a bigger screen running at 2048x1536 compared to 1334x750 on the iPhone, so it needs to use more of its 2GB RAM for the display than the phone does. Also, it's not impossible that the iPad version of an app--which often has more features--can, itself, use up more memory than its iPhone version. Overall, though, the performance of that iPad beats that of your iPhone, so that bodes well latency.

 

Anyone have thoughts on whether you can get by on 32GB storage? Assuming I'd really only use it for iOS apps - and maybe a couple media/Netflix-types apps on the side.

If you're using it just for music and are not running many apps with big sample libraries, 32 GB can go pretty far. You mentioned Ravenscroft, Korg Module with Ivory and Scarbee, Moog Model D, and the Mellotron... checking my iPad... Ravenscroft is under a gig. Model D is tiny at about 100 mb. Korg Module can be large depending on how many expansions you buy, I don't have nearly all of them, and am approaching 2 GB... but if I were to add the Ivory grands, one is about a gig, and the other is about 2 gig. Mellotron apps vary, my biggest is StreetlyTron Pro which comes close to 2 GB. As long as the total of all the apps you want to run (and whichever expansions you choose) is below 16 GB, I think 32 GB would be comfortable. But you will be tempted to buy more... IK Multimedia's stuff can be big... My Syntronik and SampleTank are up around 5-6 GB each and I don't have every expansion. Even B-3X is almost 1.4 gb. From others, some large ones are Neo Soul Keys, Beathawk, CMP Grand piano, iSymphonic. I still think 32 is workable if you're selective, but it is something you'll have to think about every time you decide whether you want some new app.

[Redknife]

I looked through my iPad storage also and mostly concur with A.Scott so I won"t repeat those nuances. My biggest app is the Colossus piano which is almost 16 GB. Nothing else is close. The next few biggest apps are keyboard apps with memory use as described already.

 

I"ll add that in iOS there is an 'offload app' feature (general settings>storage>choose app from list) so that if you choose 32 GB you could offload an app if you find it"s not in use. There is an automatic function also that will offload unused apps. You can reload them at any time.

 

In summary, being selective and attentive to usage would allow 32GB device to function pretty well for iPad keys (caveats:as of today; without other heavy usage)

[Noah DC]

Thanks for those points - I've never really delved into iPad tech before so the RAM and storage capacity notes make sense. Honestly, I was surprised that the newest 8th Generation iPad - with 3GB RAM and the faster processor - is only $330 and that people on the used market don't seem to be parting with their older models for much less than that. Thought there might be some savings in getting an older amusic-app-only iPad for 150-250, but looks like the move might just be to pick up the newest model.

[AnotherScott]

There is an automatic function also that will offload unused apps. You can reload them at any time.

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it,

 

the newest 8th Generation iPad...is only $330 and that people on the used market don't seem to be parting with their older models for much less than that. Thought there might be some savings in getting an older amusic-app-only iPad for 150-250, but looks like the move might just be to pick up the newest model.

Yes, the double-edged sword of the fact that iPads hold their value pretty well.

[zxcvbnm098]

Thanks for those points - I've never really delved into iPad tech before so the RAM and storage capacity notes make sense. Honestly, I was surprised that the newest 8th Generation iPad - with 3GB RAM and the faster processor - is only $330 and that people on the used market don't seem to be parting with their older models for much less than that. Thought there might be some savings in getting an older amusic-app-only iPad for 150-250, but looks like the move might just be to pick up the newest model.

 

Prices for used iPads jumped up considerably, with corresponding supply shrinking since the pandemic. When it first hit I picked up a 2nd gen iPad Air for my wife and 1st gen iPad Pro for myself for reasonable costs, but shortly thereafter (when it became clear it was not ending soon) I was shocked at how much they had gone up and how few there were available on the used market.

[Reezekeys]

There is an automatic function also that will offload unused apps. You can reload them at any time.

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it.

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

[Dr Mike Metlay]

There is an automatic function also that will offload unused apps. You can reload them at any time.

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it.

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

They do not, at least not reliably. iTunes only saves documents and data, and assumes you can download your apps again. I hate this, but so far only one of my apps has had this happen, so I tolerate it.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Get the latest generation iPad, the 10.5". It will work with your plugKEY and run everything very well for a good long while. At that price, don't bother buying used. Also, if you're only using it for music, 64 GB will be fine and maybe even 32, but I am glad that I got one with 128.

 

Also, be sure you disable iCloud storage and backup and make sure that App Offload isn't enabled. It is a hateful thing.

[AnotherScott]

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it.

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

Yeah, it used to be that way. They changed that a while back, I think with iOS 9. You can no longer backup your apps to a local drive. Backups only include your personal data, not your apps. So if you need to restore your iPad and the apps have become unavailable from the app store, you're screwed. There is a 3rd-party utility called iMazing which may provided a way around that, though.

[Reezekeys]

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

They do not, at least not reliably. iTunes only saves documents and data, and assumes you can download your apps again. I hate this, but so far only one of my apps has had this happen, so I tolerate it.

I just checked, and you are right and I'm wrong (not a surprise!). No iTunes or App Store content is stored in any backup now. I thought that was the case for iCloud backups, not full computer backups but I'm wrong; it's the same for both. I do remember a folder with my iPhone apps in it but that was a few years ago.

 

So the next obvious question would be: is there a 3rd-party app that can backup iOS app files to one's own local storage? I've heard of one program called iExplorer that can peek inside an iDevice. Not sure if it can backup the app files though.

 

[edit] -- didn't see the previous post while I was composing this!

[Biggles]

As an I Pad ages it get to the point where it cannot be updated.

 

My iPad is one such device and it is stuck at 12.5.1, the latest version is 14.4

 

It is also 32Gb and full and I do not even have all the Apps that I used to have on my prior iPad which failed so I am using an old one that we happened to have.

 

Older iPads were also 32 bit hence pretty well useless.

 

Trying to economise will be false economy.

 

128Gb minimum either new or refurbished would be my suggestion.

 

BTW

IPads backup automatically to the icloud where there is limited capacity free storage, so a small monthly fee is needed to buy additional storage. My Wife got a new iPad last year and the icloud backup loaded all the current apps and data she had on her old iPad, hence it was a very simple process

[AnotherScott]

BTW

IPads backup automatically to the icloud where there is limited capacity free storage, so a small monthly fee is needed to buy additional storage. My Wife got a new iPad last year and the icloud backup loaded all the current apps and data she had on her old iPad, hence it was a very simple process

I'm pretty sure iCloud backups have the same issue as local backups... they don't really backup your apps, they just backup a list of your apps, which, if needed, are re-downloaded from the app store. Which means that if they're no longer on the app store, you can't get them back. This becomes an issue if Apple pulls the app for some reason, or if the developer pulls it or closes up shop (i.e. is no longer paying Apple's fees for keeping it on the store).

[Biggles]

Scott

Yes, that is case and why I used the term 'current apps' as some older ones were lost.

 

Similar thing happened years ago when an OS update stopped the 32 bit apps from working until the developers updated their apps.

[Stokely]

I already had a 4th gen ipad, and it runs B-3X, model-D, model 15 and Zeeon with no issues (B-3X being the main one I'm using). I honestly wish it would run on my iphone, which may be more powerful but mainly that would be more convenient--not that the ipad isn't convenient already!

[Reezekeys]

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it.

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

Yeah, it used to be that way. They changed that a while back, I think with iOS 9. You can no longer backup your apps to a local drive. Backups only include your personal data, not your apps. So if you need to restore your iPad and the apps have become unavailable from the app store, you're screwed. There is a 3rd-party utility called iMazing which may provided a way around that, though.

I got curious, searched, and found a folder inside my iTunes folder called "Mobile Applications." It has 425 files in it, which appear to be all my iPhone apps from years ago! They have the extension ".ipa." The most recent app has a "date modified" of November 2017. This folder is using over 13GB of disk space! I'm wondering if I can trash it.

[AnotherScott]

I got curious, searched, and found a folder inside my iTunes folder called "Mobile Applications." It has 425 files in it, which appear to be all my iPhone apps from years ago! They have the extension ".ipa." The most recent app has a "date modified" of November 2017. This folder is using over 13GB of disk space! I'm wondering if I can trash it.

I'd keep it on some backup drive somewhere. If any of those apps are (or ever become) unavailable on the app store, you should be able to use iMazing to get them back, as long as you have those ipa files locally.

[Reezekeys]

I'd keep it on some backup drive somewhere. If any of those apps are (or ever become) unavailable on the app store, you should be able to use iMazing to get them back, as long as you have those ipa files locally.

Looks like I'm not the only one who had this question: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8077020

 

The ones I don't use now, I've forgotten about and will probably never need - and the ones I do use have been updated to much newer versions, so these older versions most likely won't run in the later iOSes (any 32-bit app definitely won't run). So... trash! Nice, I just got 13GB back.

[Biggles]

Apple usually holds a few Events every year to promote new or revised products.

 

A Spring event is rumoured to be about new iPad Pro"s and a possible new cheaper iPad.

 

So you may want to check out the online talk that is happening.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

That worries me because, if for whatever reason the app is pulled from the app store, I don't think you'll still be able to reload it.

If you do a full backup to your computer, I'm pretty sure the apps are save there. At least they were the last time I checked!

Yeah, it used to be that way. They changed that a while back, I think with iOS 9. You can no longer backup your apps to a local drive. Backups only include your personal data, not your apps. So if you need to restore your iPad and the apps have become unavailable from the app store, you're screwed. There is a 3rd-party utility called iMazing which may provided a way around that, though.

I am not sure that iExplorer or iMazing saves .ipa files any more. My understanding is that somewhere along the line, that ability broke. I used these apps to back up my older machines, but I think that stopped working at iOS 9. As a result, the only iPad that I have that is backed up completely, apps and all, is my original one, which stopped at iOS 5.

 

I should really look into this. It would be lovely to back up my 32-bit apps for my newer machines.