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Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? #2975652 02/14/19 06:24 AM
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paulmapp8306 Offline OP
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So 0- currently have an RD2000 on the bottom and an FA07 on the top. Im reasonably happy - but the FA was chosen for its VA synth engine really. I have since bought a Peak so thats less important. Organ sounds are now the priority.

Both RD and FA have issues there. The FA doesnt have physical drawbars, the RD doesnt have organ editing (it has leslie editing but not organ - things like click level, leakage level, percussive level etc).

So - thinking how to improve things. the Nord Electro wont work, as I need the light action board to control the Peak as well - and the midi implementation on the Electro just doesnt work for that. the Stage 3 does, but its a lot more money, and as I have no use for the piano or synth sections I cant justify that.

So- looks like I have a choice.

1. Sell the FA and pick up a VR730. I loose the arpegiator, and sequencer but I can live without those. I get a better core organ sound than either the RD or FA< and a better Leslie sim as well as a hands on FX section. Also gives me the waterfall action.

2. Keep the FA and add a Neo Minivent. This would give me the best leslie upgrade - but wouldnt do anything for the lack of deeper editing on the RD (which is the board Id use because of the draw bars) and wouldnt improve the core (non leslie) organ tones that the VR would do.

Both routes will cost me about he same. So which is the "better" route to take.

Last edited by paulmapp8306; 02/14/19 10:44 AM.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975656 02/14/19 07:42 AM
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I'd say go the first route. (Do the VR organs really improve compared to those other two boards though?)

Although you could MIDI up the RD and the FA so that you can edit the FA organs and control them from the RD sliders.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: marczellm] #2975674 02/14/19 10:32 AM
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paulmapp8306 Offline OP
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You cant control the FA with the RDs drawbars. They only work in that mode with internal sounds. There is currently no way of using the sliders for anything other than zone volume for external sounds.

I do play the RDs organ sounds with the FAs keyboard, giving me access to the drawbars.

The RD and FA organ sounds are actually identical when set the same - BUT the addition of the click levels, percussion levels, leakage levels and so on mean the FAs sound better (more natural) - and you cant edit the RDs sounds to mirror the FAs, only the other way round. The RD has 2 Leslie sims though while the FA has one. The 2nd RD one is better than the first or the FAs.

Directly comparing both the FA and RD to a VR in a store - without Leslie sim on either, the VRs is quite a bit better than either of the other two.

If Roland added the more in depth organ editing on the RD - OR enabled the sliders to be used in external zones (AND Configure the FAs Virtual drawbars to work with CCs - which they dont currently) - then I think the Minivent would probably be the better way forward. As it currently stands though - the VR is a better organ machine (with no Leslie effects taken into consideration) than the FA or RD.


Last edited by paulmapp8306; 02/14/19 10:43 AM.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975677 02/14/19 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
Sell the FA and pick up a VR730. I loose the arpegiator, and sequencer but I can live without those. I get a better core organ sound than either the RD or FA< and a better Leslie sim as well as a hands on FX section. Also gives me the waterfall action.

Reasonable, but make sure you account for all the other things that the FA does that the VR730 does not. You're going from 16-part split/layer function with independent effects for each, to 2-part split/layer with a single set of effects shared between them. You're going from 16-zone MIDI control to 1-zone limited MIDI control. Only 16 of your custom sounds/combinations can be directly recalled with buttons (the other 84 can only be accessed via scrolling). There's no sub out nor even a way to pan sounds to different sides, meaning you can't send different sounds out to different external processing. There are no expansions to load under-represented instruments. Among others.

Another board to consider might be the Kurzweil Artis 7. I'd say its organ sound beats the FA, but it might lag the VR... you'd have to check that out for yourself. But it has the 9 sliders for drawbars, and while it is still missing a bunch of FA capabilities (including the sequencer and sample pads), it doesn't have all those limitations I listed in the previous paragraph, or at least not to the same extent. It has 4-part split/layer with flexible effects assignment between them, 4-zone MIDI control, front panel recall of 256 custom sounds and 256 custom combinations (plus a bank of favorite buttons), you can pan sounds. Although not well documented, you can expand its sound set with any PC3 tones. The VR and Artis both rely on iPad/computer for deep editing, but Roland only lets you edit synth sounds, Kurz lets you edit everything. It also expands your palette by giving you access to a bunch of non-Roland sounds, including some that Roland doesn't do very well, like mellotron.

Here's another possibility... a Numa Compact 2X with a Gemini module.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2975680 02/14/19 11:10 AM
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paulmapp8306 Offline OP
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Nice options.

I am a live player - and while the layers are something I use from time to time - I can layer not just 2 parts in the VR - but the Peak and RD as well if needed (with the correct midi setup). I only use Midi for keyboard control, not for more complex stuff (tone recall etc).

The FX might be an issue, but for live playing its probably not a deal breaker. For recording Id add FX in a DAW anyway normally.

The number of patches directly accessible is a limitation - but I think I could manage. I currently (on the FA) have one patch dedicated to playing the RD and one to the Peak. I have 13 patches I have FA sounds saved on - BUT there all solo sounds - no splits or layers. Ive not needed more than that is a year. Id be down to 12 on the VR (if I had one patch per bank for peak and/or RD) but thats only 1 down. This is what I use the pads for - I dont sample. If I did Id add a separate small sampler anyway Id guess.

Ive never used the sub outs on the FA - though I would (either on the FA or RD) if I went the Minivent route.

To be honest - if the RD had the deeper organ editing, the FA had physical drawbars, OR I could control the FAs drawbars from the RDs sliders - Id lie with the slight core downgrade on from the VR and just get the Minivent. Unfortunately they dont (though Ive suggested these along with other FW fixable usability upgrades to Roland - who knows if/when they would implement them).


This is not me having made my choice already - far from it (and once I have Id have to find a buyer for the FA before I got the VR anyway). Im just clarifying how I use the FA currently.

Got to be honest - if I didnt want a VA engine when I bought the FA - along with the pcm based synth stuff - Id have gone VR or Nord electro in the first pace - but as always, needs and priorities do change.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975681 02/14/19 11:24 AM
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In the spirit of completeness, you might consider the Vox continental as well.

The touch strips could send CC's to the Peak, although it's worth noting the insightful comments here .... including Adan's comments about steppiness.

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Tusker] #2975682 02/14/19 11:27 AM
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paulmapp8306 Offline OP
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Not considered as I dont like the touch strips - dont like them on the Nords either .


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975685 02/14/19 11:30 AM
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Kurzweils are really hard to find in store in the UK... Ive had some short listening on youtube (not the best medium I know).

Thoughts are that the orchestral and string sounds are stunning - the best Ive ever heard from a hardware synth (and I do use those in the FA). I have no need for pianos/EPs as my RD2000 covers that.

As far as organs go - there not close to the Nords, and having had both an electro 6d and stage 3 compact up against the VR - these little to call between those two - so Im guessing the Atris isnt going to cut it if the reason to change is for better organs.

Shame, as I REALLY like those orchestral sounds.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975688 02/14/19 11:36 AM
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I am a former owner of a VR700, and I gave a hard look to a fa-06 recently. I was very surprised at the difference between the two organs, specifically the leslie. The VR700's was MUCH better. The basic organ tone sounded about the same from memory but as mentioned you don't have the control, and no C/V iirc (which I don't personally use much anyway, but still). A big killer for me was not having separate overdrive on the keyboard but of course with a vent you'd have that.

If the 730 overcomes some of the limitations of the 700--namely, the non-organ sounds were VERY limited and I didn't particularly like the pianos or the synths--and IF it has that same awesome action, it would be recommended.

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Stokely] #2975690 02/14/19 11:42 AM
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paulmapp8306 Offline OP
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Action is slightly better from reviews Ive seen. The synths are better - its a VA engine and you can fully edit them via an ipad app (on stage) or a PC editor - though not from the keyboard direct.

I dont need piano/eps/clavs etc as I get those from the RD. I dot NEED a synth as I have the peak (and the RD has a decent amount of good quality choice as well). The orchestral stuff was as good or better than the FA - but less choice.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975692 02/14/19 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
To be honest - if the RD had the deeper organ editing, the FA had physical drawbars, OR I could control the FAs drawbars from the RDs sliders - Id lie with the slight core downgrade on from the VR and just get the Minivent.

I don't know tha 'd call that a downgrade... FA+Vent arguably sounds better than VR without. But regardless, how about this option... WIth the 1.5 update, the RD2000 sliders send MIDI CC in organ mode. So if you invoke that mode (even if you're not playing the RD's organ), I think you should be able to use a MIDI Solutions box to convert the CC to sysex and use those sliders to control the virtual drawbars on the FA. Or you could keep your eyes open for the discontinued Ocean Beach drawbar box, which I think works with the FA.

Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
Kurzweils...orchestral and string sounds are stunning - the best Ive ever heard from a hardware synth (and I do use those in the FA).

That is a Kurz strength, but also be sure to check out he orchestral expansions you can load into the FA.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2975693 02/14/19 11:57 AM
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I wasnt actually aware the drawbars SENT midi ccs when in organ mode - I thought it only sent midi out in "external" mode - which cant have the drawbars enabled.

I know that they enabled the RDs drawbars to be controlled via CCs in that update though.

Shame the FAs drawbars dont react to CCs in the same way. FA plus vent would probably be my preferred solution (or RD with those deeper editing options) IF ONLY i could find a way to get physical drawbars. No having them kills the FA as an option for organs.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975701 02/14/19 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
I wasnt actually aware the drawbars SENT midi ccs when in organ mode

Well, that's how it seems to me from the manual, with the note about what's transmitted, but I don't have an RD-2000 myself, and Roland manuals are not a model of clarity...

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-2000_v150_eng01_W.pdf


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975704 02/14/19 12:25 PM
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OK - Ive confirmed (from the FW 1.5 aditional manual, and a physical test using peak) that the RD does transmit CCs on the drawbars (on the Midi channel corresponding to the zone) when drawbars are enabled.

I couldnt check on the FA - because the CCs transmitted are 102 through to 110 - but the FA only responds up to 95. All CCs above that are "reserved" for internal OS commands.

Why do Roland make it so hard....... Cant even assign drawbars to their own CCs which would then work.

Last edited by paulmapp8306; 02/14/19 12:25 PM.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975718 02/14/19 01:26 PM
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Since you seem to be a Roland guy why not instead just add a VK8m module? Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Delaware Dave] #2975727 02/14/19 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.

The organ module of course exists today in the Gemini. He could use his RD2000 sliders to control it, or I think this works...

https://www.crumar.it/?a=page&p=D9U


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2975761 02/14/19 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.

The organ module of course exists today in the Gemini. He could use his RD2000 sliders to control it, or I think this works...

https://www.crumar.it/?a=page&p=D9U


He doesn't own a Gemini and a Gemini is $1200. Why would he spend $1200 to get the Gemini if he's only interested in upgrading the organ? My guess would be that the organ module (if it ever comes out) would have to be significantly less than the Gemini or users would rationalize to spend a little extra to get the Gemini and potentially cannibalize sales of the organ module. So the price of the organ module needs to significantly less than the Gemini or his potential launch of the product would not be very successful.

This is where I was with the HX3, that was what I was going to purchase. Then I rationalized that for a few hundred dollars more I could get the Gemini module. Had the HX3 been priced lower I would have bought that; but the delta was small enough (for me) to justify purchasing the Gemini.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Delaware Dave] #2975775 02/14/19 06:00 PM
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Ferrofish B-4000 is an option. HX3 sounds better.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: CEB] #2975810 02/14/19 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
Ferrofish B-4000 is an option.

I don't think that will necessarily sound any better than what he has.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2975820 02/15/19 12:47 AM
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No it won't. It's a form factor that might work better. But the sound is underwhelming.

Last edited by CEB; 02/15/19 12:47 AM.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: CEB] #2975838 02/15/19 08:21 AM
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I would go for the VR730. The Organ and Leslie needs some tweaking but sounds great then. And it has a fully equipped VA synth plus very usable classic keys sounds like AP, EP, Clav strings and so on. Great lightweighted keybed too. The VR730 keybed makes a whole world of difference compared to the VR09 which I own and love despite it's mediocre keybed.

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: TomKittel] #2975864 02/15/19 11:14 AM
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I would go with a VK8m, this eliminates the need for another keyboard, the footprint is small and add a Vent if he feels that he needs it, and...... IT'S A ROLAND!!!!


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Delaware Dave] #2975870 02/15/19 11:55 AM
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I wont be adding "another" board. Ill either replace the FA with an organ (VR730 as specified - BUT Ive been looking at an SK1-73) - OR add a leslie sim or possibly rack unit thats cc controllable from the RD. I already have a desktop synth and small mixer on my live stand - I dont have room for another module either.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975889 02/15/19 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
VR730 as specified - BUT Ive been looking at an SK1-73

SK1 is more customizable in its organ parameters, has better drawbars, 10-button keypad selection, 3-zone MIDI capability. Overdrive is a weakness. It doesn't have all the synth functionality of the VR, but you have that covered elsewhere.

Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
OR add a leslie sim or possibly rack unit thats cc controllable from the RD. I already have a desktop synth and small mixer on my live stand - I dont have room for another module either.

The aforementioned Gemini module is available as either a desktop or a rack module. he desktop module could also be placed on the floor, as your hands never need to touch it, assuming you're selecting its patches from your keyboard's controls. As Dave alluded to, it's not your cheapest option, but it could be your best.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2975906 02/15/19 02:40 PM
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Id have to look into the Gemini's. My main issue with them (without adding a controller) is real time control. The RDs drawbars do sent CCs so that would be fine - but How would I do things like percussion settings, leslie speeds/brakes, Chorus on/off etc on the fly.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975921 02/15/19 03:21 PM
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Hum - the newly announced Viscount Legend EXP module looks interesting. I think I could just about find a mount point for it.

Gives me all the control I want - and I could keep the FA. I wouldnt have waterfall keys but thats all Id miss.

A little more expensive than the other options but Id keep more functionality.

HOWEVER, I have no idea how good or bad the Viscount stuff is, either base organ tones or leslie effects.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975933 02/15/19 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
"..How would I do things like percussion settings, leslie speeds/brakes, Chorus on/off etc on the fly.

every feature in VB3 on the Gemini is assignable via a CC. if your boards send MIDI CC# out then assign buttons, dials etc. to control the percussion, V/C, leslie via midi. I use a Voce MIDI drawbar unit and assign its controls to control those functions in real time.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Delaware Dave] #2975960 02/15/19 05:48 PM
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They do send CCs - however there is a serious lack of buttons. The RD has one, and the FA 2. There are plenty of rotary's and sliders - but not enough buttons that are assignable to CCs.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975965 02/15/19 06:41 PM
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You could add a Korg Nanokontrol or similar... I'm pretty sure the Gemini directly accepts a USB controller, in addition to your MIDI keyboard input. But you're back to needing a place to put it. It's small, though.

You can also achieve some functionality by creating different presets (i.e. with and without percussion), but I know that's not the same as freely switching percussion in/out on the fly on whatever your existing drawbar settings may be.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975966 02/15/19 06:56 PM
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You might be interested in my setup, which is an Electro 5D on the bottom for piano and organ, and Juno DS on top. The Juno DS is surprisingly powerful, and the latest OS update gives you multi-sampling as well as the general Roland palette of D50/synth sounds. The phrase pad is also very useful for recording and triggering riffs and motifs. Its MIDI functionality would be fine for operating your Peak.

Of course you'd lose the RD2000's piano keybed, but you could pick up a Nord 5HP on the used market for about the same price. It's only 76 keys as oppose to the Roland's 88, dunno if that's a dealbreaker.

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Marillo] #2975971 02/15/19 07:24 PM
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Yeh. The RD was picked up to learn "proper" piano. Must be 88 note weighted. I also HATE the Nord keybeds. They are truly awful. The only exception is the Waterfalls on the Electros.

Also doesnt really help - I dont want to play synth - ie the Novation Peak - from a weighted board. I need to play if from a semi/synth/waterfall board. The setup your suggesting still only gives the electro as the non hammer action. The electro doesnt have the midi control versatility (cant change midi tx channels per patch, or assign tx channels to buttons etc) . Thats why Im not considering an Electro 6d 73 as well as the VR730.

The VR730 transmits upper manual, lower manual, and pedal manual information on separate midi channels - and the important bit, allows you to change which channels they are on a patch by patch basis.

That means I can save a "quiet" patch on the VR with the midi TX Chanel for the upper manual set to (say) midi channel 8 and set the peak to receive on 8. That means I play peak with no sound from the VR - BUT I can layer if I wish. Alternatively for patches I dont want the peak on I can save the Midi tx channel to default (4 for the upper manual) and the Peak wont respond.

To do that with a Nord Id have to go to the stage 3. Way too much money just for a slightly better organ.


Last edited by paulmapp8306; 02/15/19 07:25 PM.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2975973 02/15/19 07:35 PM
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You could probably get a used HX3 pretty cheap

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Marillo] #2976066 02/16/19 12:09 PM
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It appears that Guido might be offering VB3 in a module. This could be your solution. Here's a prototype. Be patient:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=5CEDFE65


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #2976096 02/16/19 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: paulmapp8306
Yeh. The RD was picked up to learn "proper" piano. Must be 88 note weighted. I also HATE the Nord keybeds. They are truly awful. The only exception is the Waterfalls on the Electros.

Also doesnt really help - I dont want to play synth - ie the Novation Peak - from a weighted board. I need to play if from a semi/synth/waterfall board. The setup your suggesting still only gives the electro as the non hammer action. The electro doesnt have the midi control versatility (cant change midi tx channels per patch, or assign tx channels to buttons etc) . Thats why Im not considering an Electro 6d 73 as well as the VR730.

The VR730 transmits upper manual, lower manual, and pedal manual information on separate midi channels - and the important bit, allows you to change which channels they are on a patch by patch basis.

That means I can save a "quiet" patch on the VR with the midi TX Chanel for the upper manual set to (say) midi channel 8 and set the peak to receive on 8. That means I play peak with no sound from the VR - BUT I can layer if I wish. Alternatively for patches I dont want the peak on I can save the Midi tx channel to default (4 for the upper manual) and the Peak wont respond.

To do that with a Nord Id have to go to the stage 3. Way too much money just for a slightly better organ.



But with the Stage 3 you don't need to control your "Peak" - as it has a built in VA synth. Nord Stage 3 Compact can solve all your problems.

Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: Delaware Dave] #2976109 02/16/19 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
It appears that Guido might be offering VB3 in a module. This could be your solution. Here's a prototype. Be patient:

It's a controller only.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: AnotherScott] #2976114 02/16/19 09:15 PM
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That would suck since he already has a Midi drawbar unit.

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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #3007640 09/11/19 08:04 PM
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OK, I will revive this thread from February.

I am considering a trade offer that I received of my Roland FA-07 for another person's VR-730 for a change of scenery. They are priced about the same and do different things but a lot of the same things for my purposes.

I'm most curious to know if the bread and butter sounds - acoustic piano and electric pianos are any different between these two instruments? Do the FA-07 and VR-730 have identical sounds for the grand pianos and rhodes, clav, wurly, etc. or is one better than the other in these categories? Am I gaining or losing anything between the FA-07 and the VR-730 in the grand piano/rhodes/clav/wurly categories?

Jeff


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3007672 09/11/19 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
Am I gaining or losing anything between the FA-07 and the VR-730 in the grand piano/rhodes/clav/wurly categories?

It can be subjective, but FA should be better at those particular sounds. FA has only a handful of SuperNatural Acoustic tones (which employ modeling), but they happen to include everything you're asking about (piano, EPs, clav), none of which is SuperNatural in the VR730. Also acoustic guitar, basses, and ensemble strings. Those sounds will be different from what's in the VR730 which does not have SN versions of any of them. The SN synth capabilities of the two boards are the same, though. As for other acoustic instruments, VR730 would have the edge, as I believe its other sounds are from a later Fantom generation compared to the XV-5080 sounds of the FA. But that won't help if those aren't the sounds you care about...


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #3007680 09/11/19 11:26 PM
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Thanks, AnotherScott!


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #3007682 09/11/19 11:34 PM
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Also worth noting, though, that the organ on the VR is much better than the organ on the FA.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: paulmapp8306] #3007761 09/12/19 03:01 PM
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The FA organ model not having CV or drawbar adjustability is the weakest link here, but it's also pretty lame that Roland doesn't have a modeled organ with these controls in their $4,000 new Fantom either.


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Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3007765 09/12/19 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
The FA organ model not having CV or drawbar adjustability is the weakest link here

Yes, and also weak rotary+overdrive, but at least the assignable out lets you add a pedal for that.

Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
but it's also pretty lame that Roland doesn't have a modeled organ with these controls in their $4,000 new Fantom either.

Yes... even though Scott Tibbs said you can use the sliders as drawbars (unclear if there's any way to use all 9 or just the obviously reassignable 8), I am not entirely optimistic about its organ capabilities. An update could add an organ model, but it's an open question as to whether it would have to operate within (what I believe is) the existing single-MFXeffect-per-sound architecture (which I think is why the FA can't do C/V and a good rotary and a good overdrive all at the same time). The VR takes a very different approach, it lets you gang up multiple effects on a single sound, but the trade-off there is that you can't simultaneously put different effects on different sounds (your two sounds of a split or layer can't have different effects on them). To do that on the Fantom would presumably require a whole separate, dedicated operational mode for the organ model (kind of along the lines of what Kurzweil does with their KB3 organ engine, which to some extent behaves under its own set of rules apart from all the other sounds). It's not impossible... the V-Piano seems to somewhat live in its own world. But we'll see.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ?? [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3007947 09/13/19 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
The FA organ model not having CV or drawbar adjustability is the weakest link here, but it's also pretty lame that Roland doesn't have a modeled organ with these controls in their $4,000 new Fantom either.


In the interest of full disclosure, I'm trying to sell my VR-730 to Jeff or anyone else. It's in the classifieds.
Me and Jeff have PM'd a few times. The below passage is part of my discussion with him. Obviously its not a hard sell, just some of my honest thoughts and experiences with the 730, the NE4 73sw, The Vent, etc:

I've never had the FA7, but I bought the 730 because I've always loved the Roland acoustic and electric pianos, and I like the fact that the 730 has real drawbars and a good B3 tone.
When I bought it, I already had a Nord Electro 4 73sw that I used with a Vent. I figured I couldn't go wrong--I'd determine which one I loved more for gigs, and use the other for practice in my office.

Here's the deal: Every clonewheel organ sounds GREAT/BETTER with a Vent. I think the internal sims of the nord and the 730 are similar as far as how good they are. It's subjective. The 730 allows for more tweaking.

Why did I choose the nord over the 730 for live? The nord allows you to separate the left and right outputs, essentially 2 separate mono signals---all the organs know to go left into the Vent and into channel one of my amp. Everything else goes right and into channel 2. No need to ever use BYPASS on the Vent---no need for a mixer. These are both huge deals for me on gigs. I use only one board on the gigs. The 730 doesn't have that feature.

If you want to use one board, no extra pedals, no mixers,the 730 is the way to go. BTW, I did demo the 730 with the Vent---its unbelievable. If you can pick up an original/V.1 used for 300, do it.


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