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#2969128 - 01/15/19 02:12 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Dreamchilde]
Adan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
This would hit my hot button harder if they didn't drop the ball on organs again. If this had the Reface tech along with a clonewheel w/ Drawbars...man.


Well said. 73 weighted keys, lightweight and compact, 1-1 controls, and Yamaha pianos are all great features. But for this to be your all-in-one board you'd have to make a serious sacrifice on the organ side. And that might be ok depending on the gig. If you paired it with a clone then you'd want to have enough space between them to see and reach the CP controls, which is not attractive to me in a 2-level setup.

But I've been looking for a weighted 73 for piano-heavy gigs (piano on the Crumar Seven just doesn't cut it). This could be that. And for playing with general purpose cover bands, the Yamaha organs might be good enough.
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#2969130 - 01/15/19 02:29 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd]
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Is it just me or do the heavy strikes from 2:05 to 2:15 in the long Kraft demo seem abnormally pingy and brittle? Not authentic- hopefully this could be dialed out.
But I really like the rest of how it sounds, and the interface is a huge step up. Good job Yamaha.

My $.02


Edited by guzman (01/15/19 02:31 PM)

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#2969133 - 01/15/19 02:40 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Legatoboy]
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This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.
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#2969134 - 01/15/19 03:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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So far, I'm not really seeing anything that would make me abandon my CP4. There doesn't appear to be a huge step up with the sounds, there is no real progress on organ sounds, it's a kilo heavier and early pricing in the UK suggests it's around 400UKP more expensive than its predecessor. For more complex sound set-ups, I already have the MODX8.
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#2969135 - 01/15/19 03:12 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Aidan]
Marillo Offline
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It looks great and sounds fine, but I'm at the limit of how impressed I can be with another phased EP or upright AP. More synth tweakability might have edged it, but at the moment I can't see much here that's going to worry Nord unduly.

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#2969137 - 01/15/19 03:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
JerryA Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.


Yes, it seems that way to me also. I've always found myself perched perilously between the "pianists" and the "workstation keyboardists" .... This seems to promise the ability to cover casual jazzy gigs but also serve as a master controller in a larger rig. Hopefully the "sub" section will cover some utilitarian rompler duties for in-between gigs. I am sure we will know more in the next round of demos.

Nice interface!

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#2969142 - 01/15/19 03:40 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
rickp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.

Could be, I noticed they included and specifically mention the S700 piano from the S90ES (not the best piano solo, but excellent in a mix), although this lacks the layering flexibility and options, arpeggios, aux outs and wealth of voices and customization the S90 series offers, which has caused me and probably many other S90 series owners to keep for sale signs in the drawer. But, itís 20 pounds lighter and more compact than that series, and thatís not insignificant.

I see a lot of Nord Stage aspects in the sectional layout of these new CPs, albeit with Korg "category knobs" in each sound section. Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section. The sound section and effects on/off toggle switches look cool but also look fairly vulnerable to me in gig-world unless a hard case is used.

Lots of interesting questions/answers ahead!
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#2969145 - 01/15/19 03:45 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: rickp]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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There doesn't appear to be a scratchpad recorder, which I find a useful feature to have, as something usually goes wrong when booting up a computer, and that can make one lose an idea.

The GEM ProMega series had a four-track overdub scratchpad feature, which came in quite handy. It used to be a "given" on a digital piano, even though it was understood that it wouldn't be for final song arrangement work like on a DAW's sequencer such as the MOTIF.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/15/19 04:17 PM)
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#2969147 - 01/15/19 04:13 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Legatoboy]
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Anyone have accurate weight specs yet on the two models?
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#2969149 - 01/15/19 04:16 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd]
rickp Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Anyone have accurate weight specs yet on the two models?

From another thread, 41 and 28 pounds.
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#2969151 - 01/15/19 04:33 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Dreamchilde]
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There's lots of info in this PDF...

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6468

{some from the other thread}
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I may just want to ditch my MODX8 and get a 7 on top of one of these CPís.

I have the MODX7, I have numerous keyboards I like to pair with it, yet I can't say I"m not tempted by the CP73, even though it probably gives me no sounds that aren't already in the MODX. If the action hits the mark, the combination of that and the operational ergonomics could win me over. This board looks like it could be an awfully nice pairing with a Nord Stage 3 SW, too, for organ/synth.

Originally Posted By: Toano88
I'm curious what the weight is. I don't see that listed in the specs.
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
It weighs 41 lbs for the 88

And just under 29 lbs for the 73.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.

Yes, a nice feature. Kurzweil SP6 and Casio PX5S also have it.

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
They are in fact, using the same action as a Montage 8 in the 73.

Interesting. Yamaha has called it a "newly designed" action, but I suppose a new 73 key version of something that was around in an 88 qualifies. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Aidan
So far, I'm not really seeing anything that would make me abandon my CP4. There doesn't appear to be a huge step up with the sounds, there is no real progress on organ sounds, it's a kilo heavier and early pricing in the UK suggests it's around 400UKP more expensive than its predecessor. For more complex sound set-ups, I already have the MODX8.

I think the main appeal vis-a-vis th CP4 would be the more hands-on interface. Also the availability of a lighter 73. And possibly the additional sounds that will be available in the future, though it has far fewer out of the box. Also, SCM looks like it's gone.

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
This would hit my hot button harder if they didn't drop the ball on organs again. If this had the Reface tech along with a clonewheel w/ Drawbars...man.

Yeah, but I don't get too down on companies not building full clonewheel functionality into their hammer action boards... if you care that much, you probably want a board with another action anyway. ;-) But it is also a 4-zone MIDI controller, and it looks like you could probably fit a Gemini module on the empty panel space...



Edited by AnotherScott (01/15/19 08:07 PM)
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#2969154 - 01/15/19 04:42 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: rickp]
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Yes, it's going to be a LONG thread. I'm thinking they're trying to target Nord here. If I were Yamaha, that's what I would do.

Not a competitor to the Nord Electro (no organ, which is big, even on a hammer action), more of a competitor to the Nord Piano 4. Plenty of piano-centric players out there to seduce.

If that's the case, it would largely get down to quality of action and samples, which AP centric players care about, both which are quite subjective. That being said, my experience with the NP4 has been wonderful.

Although I'll be waiting for reviews for the inevitable cross-compare.

The big library of Nord samples is a definite advantage, but is it worth the additional cost? As an example, the Nord Stage users just got treated to a *huge* upgrade in EP sounds over the holidays. No cost. I hope Yamaha does the same.

The NP4 doesn't do much as a master MIDI controller, but do piano-centric players care so much?

Some great choices that Yamaha made, like old-school retro switches. For me, those are cool. And XLR out. And doing a 76 key version, which Nord hasn't done in a while for the Piano.

Competition is a great thing.
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#2969161 - 01/15/19 05:13 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: cphollis]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

73 key boards, can be fairly arbitrary in what keys are dropped on both sides, often resulting in way fewer effective octaves for many playing key signatures than one would expect for 73 keys.

Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on. Not as useful as an 88-key board with one octave stripped.

For me, it's become a moot point though, as the balanced hammer action of the CP-73 rules it out anyway. And even the CP-88 might be ruled out due to no escapement. I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/15/19 05:18 PM)
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#2969162 - 01/15/19 05:20 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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Originally Posted By: rickp
Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.

The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

However, if you want bass on the left and anything other than a piano/EP category sound on the right, you may be out of luck. So maybe not the best choice as a single board for a LH bass player.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

Not true... Not many 76s have been A-to-C. Probably the most common is E-to-G, meaning the difference here is the absence of the top F, F#, G.
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#2969164 - 01/15/19 05:27 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on.

Not really, that would be a 73 C-to-C.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.

I don't know how many care about the 73 vs 76 distinction, but I think there will be a lot of interest in the 73--IF the action feels good--because it's a hammer action that's under 43" wide and under 29 lbs.
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#2969166 - 01/15/19 05:42 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott]
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73 keys, E to E has been a very common request on this forum at least. This places middle C pretty smack dab in the middle. I like it. Thereís enough out in either direction for deep bass lines and screaming leads in addition to chording in the mid range. The 3 keys 73 to 76 arenít that big a deal and if it makes it just a bit shorter for the compact car guys then itís fine with me.
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#2969172 - 01/15/19 06:32 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott]
rickp Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: rickp
Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.

The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

True, but youíre at their mercy as to which layers theyíve created and the relative volumes theyíve programmed; if you want the layer voice to be more dominant or more subtle, youíre out of luck. The CP4 has a handy slider for that (as well as an equally handy layer on/off button).

As Adan mentioned, the controlsí depth on the top requires leaving a good bit of space between the CP and a top board, and I always thought Yamaha was pretty thoughtful about reducing that space with the CP4ís design; so that may be a design step backward in that regard. Someone may point out the Stage 3 has similar depth of controls covering its top, but with the organs on the Stage 3, many of us can get by fine without a top board - so its controls spread all over the top are a luxury instead of a problem.
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#2969173 - 01/15/19 06:33 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder]
gg22 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

73 key boards, can be fairly arbitrary in what keys are dropped on both sides, often resulting in way fewer effective octaves for many playing key signatures than one would expect for 73 keys.

Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on. Not as useful as an 88-key board with one octave stripped.

For me, it's become a moot point though, as the balanced hammer action of the CP-73 rules it out anyway. And even the CP-88 might be ruled out due to no escapement. I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.


I've never seen a 76 key board that dropped the top octave, they all seem to be E to G. Although I think that would be an ideal range for me - 76 keys A to C.
Somebody mentioned earlier that Yamaha dropped SCM modelling, but CP88 EP's sound to me exactly like CP4, which are SCM.

I'm on the fence about those new Yamaha - if I decide to get one it would be the CP73 (much lighter and I prefer BH action over "wooden keys"), but as I remember CP4 Rhodes (which I had for a short time) were underwhelming, which are the most important thing for me in a digital piano.
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#2969179 - 01/15/19 07:13 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: gg22]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Owners Manual for Both Models

https://hu.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1180527/cp88_cp73_en_om_b0.pdf

Closer hands on look at the interface and some bread and butter timbres.
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#2969184 - 01/15/19 07:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: rickp]
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Originally Posted By: rickp
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

True, but youíre at their mercy as to which layers theyíve created and the relative volumes theyíve programmed; if you want the layer voice to be more dominant or more subtle, youíre out of luck.

It's a Yamaha manual, so it's hard to be sure, but it looks like they may have addressed that:

Quote:
The Advanced Mode lets you use the Voice select switch to select any Voice from any Voice section, no matter the
category. For example, you can combine a Voice of Piano section and Wah (insertion effect) of Electric piano section, or
make one Voice to be layered.

That sounds to me like maybe you can split/layer any two sounds, including two from the same section.

The biggest limitation I see is that it only contains 57 sounds. Which is not necessarily such a problem for a bread-and-butter board, except there seem to be some notable omissions. No winds or brass (apart from a single synth brass sound).
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#2969186 - 01/15/19 08:08 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd]
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Nice products! The 73 is calling me: both as a lightweight DP and midi controller. Iím expecting Iíll like the action as I usually like Yamaha actions. Looks like they made an effort to make the UI user friendly. I hope they succeeded on that front.

Iíd still keep my CP4 for jazz piano gigs.
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#2969187 - 01/15/19 08:15 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Al Quinn]
Fleer Offline
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Would the CP73 action indeed resemble the Montage 8ís? That should be just fine.
Wondering how much memory this thing has, as it seems sounds can be added.

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#2969190 - 01/15/19 08:28 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Fleer]
Polkahero Offline
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Is the chassis made out of aluminum on both models? The plastic chassis of the CP4 really turned me off when I tried one out a few years back.
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#2969191 - 01/15/19 08:41 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Polkahero]
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
The plastic chassis of the CP4 really turned me off when I tried one out a few years back.


I, for one, can attest to this as I purchased, and still own, the CP4 that Polkahero origionally purchased. As for me, I'm OK with it. smile
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#2969198 - 01/15/19 09:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: gg22]
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Originally Posted By: gg22


Somebody mentioned earlier that Yamaha dropped SCM modelling, but CP88 EP's sound to me exactly like CP4, which are SCM.


The EPs on the Montage/MODX sound VERY similar to the CP1/5/4 to me (and are named similarly), and those are sampled. My thought is they sampled a CP-1 or derived the samples from the original sampling/recordings which became the SCM EPs.

Busch.

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#2969200 - 01/15/19 09:23 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Polkahero]
jefsco Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Is the chassis made out of aluminum on both models?

. . . yes
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#2969202 - 01/15/19 09:52 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: jefsco]
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So are the Acoustic Grand Piano, Rhodes and action are all better than the CP4 ?
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#2969207 - 01/15/19 11:24 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Jazz+]
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Another vid showing it off. Don't need either of these models but damn they look nice!

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#2969209 - 01/15/19 11:51 PM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Legatoboy]
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This is the most interesting and attractive board Iíve seen from Yamaha in a while. I love that they went for the one to one interface model. Really tactile and sleek. Now if they could only do this with an analog synth.
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#2969212 - 01/16/19 12:25 AM Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott]
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Originally Posted By: rickp
I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.
The Kraft Music video implied that something called "advanced mode" could be used to call voices up "out-of-category", so you could put upright bass in the EP section, and split that against an AP+strings layer from the Piano and Sub sections. That's how I interpreted it, anyway - I haven't read the manual (sorry Sven).

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
This board looks like it could be an awfully nice pairing with a Nord Stage 3 SW, too, for organ/synth.
Stop giving me GAS - that's a nice combination of decent action, light weight and 7x-size, plus audio ins for the Nord sounds. Although I'd prefer something with better ROMpler brass/strings to complement the Nord - MODX88 would be nice (MODX73-hammer would be even nicer!).

Cheers, Mike.


Edited by stoken6 (01/16/19 12:26 AM)
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AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.

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