Feel free to ask Myles

[myles_rose]

If you can take a photo of the stickers so I can see if it is my writing it will tell me if Fender is trying to do this now or if they are my original sets. If Fender is trying to do this all bets are off as it was my system and my test gear that I used to make these sets. It would also be helpful to know what the make/type of tubes are in the set, all three of them.

[renips]

If you can take a photo of the stickers so I can see if it is my writing it will tell me if Fender is trying to do this now or if they are my original sets. If Fender is trying to do this all bets are off as it was my system and my test gear that I used to make these sets. It would also be helpful to know what the make/type of tubes are in the set, all three of them.

 

 

 

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/renips/gear/Tubes.jpg 

 

Myles,

 

Tubes are 2 ecc83s and 1 12AX7 MPI

 

I can't tell the make. They are re labeled Groove tubes. Your original sets would only last so long as stock. At some point after you stopped doing this they would have to continue themselves based on your original blueprinting.

[myles_rose]

If you can take a photo of the stickers so I can see if it is my writing it will tell me if Fender is trying to do this now or if they are my original sets. If Fender is trying to do this all bets are off as it was my system and my test gear that I used to make these sets. It would also be helpful to know what the make/type of tubes are in the set, all three of them.

 

Does not matter, I did not make these, that is not my writing and I do not know how they are calculating those numbers as it is not simple or fast to calculate.

 

I also always numbered the tubes V1, V2 and MPI. Looks whoever is making up this stuff has no clue as to what is going on. I would go back to the seller and have the seller give you a technical contact to the maker, ask them for an explanation in writing and post it here. There is way too much smoke and mirror nonsense that goes on these days where big companies find many ways to take money out of the pocket of hard working musicians.

 

If they cannot explain how they do what they do, the method they use etc., then it is all bogus.

 

If you take a photo of the tubes out of the box I will be able to tell what they are (your photo here was fine) and see if they are pulling some nonsense in that area too.

 

Any advice I gave before on this set can be tossed out the window as it was based on me thinking I made up the set and those numbers were my numbers which took into account transconductance, true gain, plate current, plate resistance, rise time and the curve traces of the tube. If they cannot even take the time to put V position on the tube it may indicate that they have no idea what they are trying to accomplish.

 

 

 

 

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/renips/gear/Tubes.jpg 

 

Myles,

 

Tubes are 2 ecc83s and 1 12AX7 MPI

 

I can't tell the make. They are re labeled Groove tubes. Your original sets would only last so long as stock. At some point after you stopped doing this they would have to continue themselves based on your original blueprinting.

[myles_rose]

Side note ...

 

if "85" is supposed to be gain then there is nothing hi gain about this tube at all. 85 is the average gain today of a sub-standard production 12AX7.

 

From trying to peek through the box window I see the GT sticker on the tube (not my era at all) and what looks like short plates. If those tubes are Sovtek 12AX7WA/B/C then they are contra-indicated and not at all suitable for a high gain kit. I will be able to confirm if you send a photo of the tubes out of the box.

 

The MPI needs to be a different tube, a long plate tube as another point.

 

 

[myles_rose]

If you can take a photo of the stickers so I can see if it is my writing it will tell me if Fender is trying to do this now or if they are my original sets. If Fender is trying to do this all bets are off as it was my system and my test gear that I used to make these sets. It would also be helpful to know what the make/type of tubes are in the set, all three of them.

 

 

 

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/renips/gear/Tubes.jpg 

 

Myles,

 

Tubes are 2 ecc83s and 1 12AX7 MPI

 

I can't tell the make. They are re labeled Groove tubes. Your original sets would only last so long as stock. At some point after you stopped doing this they would have to continue themselves based on your original blueprinting.

 

The MHG kits and other SAG kits, including the MPI, were my products that were developed before I went to GT. Aspen Pittman marketed my product but it was my product. When I left GT I did not sell MY product to Fender. Fender has not contacted me in regard to payment for my product as a side note.

 

 

[renips]

 

 

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt176/renips/DSC02140.jpg

 

The far left tube is labeled the 12AX7 MPI. The two on the right are labeled as ecc83s. These were purchased from Guitar Center and are being marketed as SAG MHG from Groove Tubes.

[myles_rose]

The two on the right are JJ ECC83S/12AX7. Three years ago these were the highest gain production tubes. That is no longer the case. They also now have a high percentage of problems such as rattle and low life. They compress quickly and are not a good choice the way they work these days for pedal use as they compress too quickly.

 

The "mpi" is a short plate Chinese 12AX7C, not a proper design for an MPI.

 

If you are in the area and would like to bring the MPI to the shop I would be happy to curve trace the tube in front of you and we can discover if you were sold anything of truth for your hard earned money.

 

[myles_rose]

Side note on the above response.

 

Guitar Center is a fine organization. They sell items on the belief that the vendor is providing what was promised. They bought these SAG kits (by the way, SAG (special applications group) was also my name used by GT which they probably copyrighted as they did to so many other folks material) in good faith. To be fair to Fender, they also believed what Aspen Pittman sold to them in good faith. If they would have checked before handing Aspen "the check" with MANY other people things may have turned out differently.

 

GC is not the one to think bad things about. Fender doesn't know any better either as Aspen probably misrepresented the process and origin of the process to them. It is Aspen Pittman who is the father of these problems which come from his actions such as omissions of the facts when he sold Groove Tubes to Fender.

[renips]

The two on the right are JJ ECC83S/12AX7. Three years ago these were the highest gain production tubes. That is no longer the case. They also now have a high percentage of problems such as rattle and low life. They compress quickly and are not a good choice the way they work these days for pedal use as they compress too quickly.

 

The "mpi" is a short plate Chinese 12AX7C, not a proper design for an MPI.

 

If you are in the area and would like to bring the MPI to the shop I would be happy to curve trace the tube in front of you and we can discover if you were sold anything of truth for your hard earned money.

 

Myles I really appreciate the response. The reason I got the second set was because the first set did have a problem and GC sent me out another without even asking for the first set back. I am in Miami so I could not stop by as much as I would be honored to. I would be willing to send the tube to you in the interest of truth. You could perform any tests necessary and you could send me back the tubes when done. My amp was not liking this set as it was cutting out on the gain channel. Let me know via PM what address I should send the tubes to.

 

Also could recommend to me or do you sell any high gain sets that I purchase? I will send you info via PM so if you wish to contact me we could discuss. I feel you are acting very responsible and appreciate your candor. I think the results from this will be of particular interest to many people.

[myles_rose]

I really don't take time to ship things back and forth and the point has already been established that these are not the product that I developed or produced. No additional verification is needed to establish that point on my part.

 

My advice in the future would be to stay away from these sets until Fender takes some sort of action to understand what they are producing and selling.

 

My shop is in the complex at 65 Amps and I do not sell these kits but if there is enough interest somebody might talk to Dan Boul over at 65 Amps or somebody like Rob Hull at www.tubedepot.com I would be happy to work with either one of them.

 

[renips]

I really don't take time to ship things back and forth and the point has already been established that these are not the product that I developed or produced. No additional verification is needed to establish that point on my part.

 

My advice in the future would be to stay away from these sets until Fender takes some sort of action to understand what they are producing and selling.

 

My shop is in the complex at 65 Amps and I do not sell these kits but if there is enough interest somebody might talk to Dan Boul over at 65 Amps or somebody like Rob Hull at www.tubedepot.com I would be happy to work with either one of them.

 

Myles,

 

I appreciate your time. You offered to run a curve trace to see if there was any truth to what I spent hard earned money for. It was not to establish whether or not these are your product. I was only offering to send you the tube to establish what you offered and that was to see if there was any validity to the claims of the marketer. My offer still stands and you do not have to send the tube back. I think it would be a great benefit to many tube buying guitar players to see what your findings conclude. I know I would be interested. Your advice to stay away from these sets is appreciated. Tube Depot offers a very similar service to match tubes. For a couple of extra buck per tube they will give high gain,match tubes and phase inverters. This is not my first rodeo. I have been playing these amps for decades. People shell out obscene money for NOS tubes. It makes me wonder. NOS are marketed as being made better and lasting longer because they were produced decades ago with better materials supposedly and if the companies happened to be American then even better. Who knows. I still have old GT 6550A tubes from 20 years ago that are still good. I am still on a quest to find tone. I guess that is part of the fun I am going to look into the NOS tubes and really do some research. Any opinions you may feel you want to offer would be very much appreciated. Peace

 

Mark

[Caevan O’Shite]

Wow- that's terrible. FWIW, the GT SAG MHG Kit that I bought was put together and signed-off by Myles himself, when he still worked there with his own equipment.

 

I own a Marshall HAZE40C. I purchased the SAG MHG pre amp tubes...

 

Hey, renips, congratulations, I think you're going to be very pleased- I purchased that same SAG MHG Kit myself, and it made a whole new amp out of my little Carvin Vintage 33! ESPECIALLY the MPI- what an improvement!

 

[renips]

What year was that you bought them?

[myles_rose]

I really don't take time to ship things back and forth and the point has already been established that these are not the product that I developed or produced. No additional verification is needed to establish that point on my part.

 

My advice in the future would be to stay away from these sets until Fender takes some sort of action to understand what they are producing and selling.

 

My shop is in the complex at 65 Amps and I do not sell these kits but if there is enough interest somebody might talk to Dan Boul over at 65 Amps or somebody like Rob Hull at www.tubedepot.com I would be happy to work with either one of them.

 

Myles,

 

I appreciate your time. You offered to run a curve trace to see if there was any truth to what I spent hard earned money for. It was not to establish whether or not these are your product. I was only offering to send you the tube to establish what you offered and that was to see if there was any validity to the claims of the marketer. My offer still stands and you do not have to send the tube back. I think it would be a great benefit to many tube buying guitar players to see what your findings conclude. I know I would be interested. Your advice to stay away from these sets is appreciated. Tube Depot offers a very similar service to match tubes. For a couple of extra buck per tube they will give high gain,match tubes and phase inverters. This is not my first rodeo. I have been playing these amps for decades. People shell out obscene money for NOS tubes. It makes me wonder. NOS are marketed as being made better and lasting longer because they were produced decades ago with better materials supposedly and if the companies happened to be American then even better. Who knows. I still have old GT 6550A tubes from 20 years ago that are still good. I am still on a quest to find tone. I guess that is part of the fun I am going to look into the NOS tubes and really do some research. Any opinions you may feel you want to offer would be very much appreciated. Peace

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

The GT stuff from the past was great. Those 6550A tubes are terrific and Aspen used to sell nothing but NOS good stuff. He was also the father of selling matched output sets which was a great thing. He started out doing things in a wonderful way but to my thinking, took a wrong turn along the way.

 

In regard to me tracing the tube - if you want to send it to me feel free, just send to 65 Amps and mark the box Attention Myles.

 

I will trace the tube, photograph the trace results and post the photo here and on facebook and twitter. Perhaps it will even find its way to by blog.

 

The address for 65 amps can be found on their website at www.65amps.com

 

I think that tracing the tube at this point may be something others would find interesting as well as there has been a lot of activity on what I have posted on this subject.

 

I thank you very much for initially asking questions. This is how we move forward and make it more difficult to pass along poor products to folks that work hard for their money.

 

NOS tubes were made with more care, better materials and were consistent. They met design spec. They last much longer than current production tubes. I have pulled tubes out of amps from the fifties that show better test results than most new production tubes offered today. But... there is not an endless supply of NOS tubes and we are now at the bottom of a barrel when it comes to supply so having a vendor you can trust is more important than ever. Tube Depot, KCA and Doug's Tubes are the folks I use but there are other great vendors. There are many poor vendors as well.

 

Feel free to keep asking questions and posting your own thoughts and experience. When we all share information we all benefit.

 

 

[myles_rose]

Wow- that's terrible. FWIW, the GT SAG MHG Kit that I bought was put together and signed-off by Myles himself, when he still worked there with his own equipment.

 

I own a Marshall HAZE40C. I purchased the SAG MHG pre amp tubes...

 

Hey, renips, congratulations, I think you're going to be very pleased- I purchased that same SAG MHG Kit myself, and it made a whole new amp out of my little Carvin Vintage 33! ESPECIALLY the MPI- what an improvement!

 

 

As a point of info, the equipment that I used to produce those sets is set up and in operation every day over at www.65amps.com

[renips]

Wow- that's terrible. FWIW, the GT SAG MHG Kit that I bought was put together and signed-off by Myles himself, when he still worked there with his own equipment.

 

I own a Marshall HAZE40C. I purchased the SAG MHG pre amp tubes...

 

Hey, renips, congratulations, I think you're going to be very pleased- I purchased that same SAG MHG Kit myself, and it made a whole new amp out of my little Carvin Vintage 33! ESPECIALLY the MPI- what an improvement!

 

 

As a point of info, the equipment that I used to produce those sets is set up and in operation every day over at www.65amps.com

 

Thanks Myles,

 

I will send that tube out. What do you think of these NOS from Tube Depot? At $40 and $50 a piece they are cheap compared to the others. They offer matched+balanced triodes. Does this make sense? I am tempted to try them but I want to learn more

The JAN GE 12AX7

The Sylvania 12AX7WA

[Caevan O’Shite]

What year was that you bought them?

 

Gheeze, I'm havin' a hard time pinpointing that! It was while Myles still worked there at GT, probably five or six years ago or so; he kindly hand-picked a set for me and they're still going strong, as is the matched, "#5"-rated EL84S quartet.

 

The SAG MHG pres developed a little microphonic tendency, but that was easily cured with a couple of Hal-O tube-dampers- nary a whistle, ring or squeal since!

 

All of the GT tubes that I put in that amp- during Myles' tenure there- have lasted much longer than I would have expected, including the output-tubes. There were good stretches of time where the amp saw little use, but when used I push it very hard- and I've been using it a LOT and using it HARD this past year and a half!

[renips]

What year was that you bought them?

 

Gheeze, I'm havin' a hard time pinpointing that! It was while Myles still worked there at GT, probably five or six years ago or so; he kindly hand-picked a set for me and they're still going strong, as is the matched, "#5"-rated EL84S quartet.

 

The SAG MHG pres developed a little microphonic tendency, but that was easily cured with a couple of Hal-O tube-dampers- nary a whistle, ring or squeal since!

 

All of the GT tubes that I put in that amp- during Myles' tenure there- have lasted much longer than I would have expected, including the output-tubes. There were good stretches of time where the amp saw little use, but when used I push it very hard- and I've been using it a LOT and using it HARD this past year and a half! [/quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have not heard of these tube dampers. They make some sense. Do you recommend them?Where did you get them

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

I have not heard of these tube dampers. They make some sense. Do you recommend them? Where did you get them?

 

__ http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ultra9.jpg The several Teflon HAL-O 9 Tube Dampers that I have were given to me by a very good friend years ago, but here is a link to the 'site for them:

 

Herbie's Audio Teflon HAL-O Dampers

 

Shop around for the best price; you may find used dampers for sale, other models, or dealers with sales-incentives that may reduce your cost below the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) allowed by the manufacturer.

 

I can't say anything either way to some of the audio-enhancing claims that are made about these, but I can say that they worked like a charm for negating the microphonic problems I had, and thus have added several years to the usable life of the tubes I put them on- and still are. They've also stood up to the considerable heat of the tubes.

[myles_rose]

Wow- that's terrible. FWIW, the GT SAG MHG Kit that I bought was put together and signed-off by Myles himself, when he still worked there with his own equipment.

 

I own a Marshall HAZE40C. I purchased the SAG MHG pre amp tubes...

 

Hey, renips, congratulations, I think you're going to be very pleased- I purchased that same SAG MHG Kit myself, and it made a whole new amp out of my little Carvin Vintage 33! ESPECIALLY the MPI- what an improvement!

 

 

As a point of info, the equipment that I used to produce those sets is set up and in operation every day over at www.65amps.com

 

Thanks Myles,

 

I will send that tube out. What do you think of these NOS from Tube Depot? At $40 and $50 a piece they are cheap compared to the others. They offer matched+balanced triodes. Does this make sense? I am tempted to try them but I want to learn more

The JAN GE 12AX7

The Sylvania 12AX7WA

 

Tube Depot are good folks. On the JAn stuff, 1987 is the last good year. 1988 things went south.

 

[myles_rose]

Tube dampers work in some cases but not in many cases. Tubes that are physically microphonic and rattle should be tossed.

[myles_rose]

Preamp tubes do not get nearly as hot as output tubes so dampers work nicely in some cases on preamp tubes.

 

Never use any sort of damper on a power tube.

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

Preamp tubes do not get nearly as hot as output tubes so dampers work nicely in some cases on preamp tubes.

 

Never use any sort of damper on a power tube.

 

Yhup!

 

Teflon HAL-O: ...For preamp, input/driver, and other cool-running small-signal tubes; also suitable for guitar amplifier preamp tubes. For continuous use up to 420° F (216° C).

[Caevan O’Shite]

_________

__ [font:Comic Sans MS]Merry Christmas, Myles- and a fantastic Happy New Year to come![/font]

 

_ http://bedno.com/p/a/20031225/v/20031225-001.jpg

[myles_rose]

Thank you and have a great holiday season and super 2012!

[MDCard]

Myles - I have a recently acquired Carol-Ann OD2r. Here are the current tubes:

 

V1: TAD 7025

V2(OD) and V4(PI): Ruby Chinese 12AX7B

V3 (Loop): Sovtek 5751

PTs: Tall Bottle Ruby 6L6GC

 

Any suggestions for improvement?

[myles_rose]

The TAD 7025 is really nothing more than a Sovtek 12AX7WA/WB/WC. Dark, not articulate and low gain. V1 is your first tone/gain stage so I would put something better in there, NOS probably, USA medium plate 12AX7 would be something nice to try.

 

Tube are personal taste and preference. There is a lot of data on my GAB website that was written years ago but is even more applicable today.

 

Ruby stuff is quite nice.

 

 

[MDCard]

Thank you for the quick reply. I should have been a little more careful on the TAD... it's actually a TAD 7025 S, which I believe is actually Chinese production. Here is Watford's blurb on it:

 

This appears to be from the same factory as Groove Tubes 12AX7-M. The TAD item has smaller plates than the GT or the original Mullard. The plates are spot welded and follow the same structure as the Mullard. It has thick mica spacers and rugged mechanical construction. This has certainly helped as the item does have lower mechanical noise than the regular Chinese ECC83/12AX7.

 

TAD claims that the TAD 7025-S delivers rich, harmonically complex tone and midrange warmth. In our tests the valve has proved to be very well balanced. The mids are warm yet not overblown with nice clear top end. Under distortion it did not go hard or fizzy like the regular Chinese valve instead it produced a nice firm balanced distortion. The microphonics level was also very low which along with the rounded sound makes this a great choice in Fenders.

 

I've had the other TAD 7025 in previous amps and never liked it. This one seems quite different to me.

[myles_rose]

If it has anything at all in common with the 12AX7M get rid of it. The Shuguang factory could not make a 12AX7 medium plate variant.

Their regular 12AX7s were quite nice.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Say, Myles- concerning combo-amps, what are your thoughts on tubes being in close proximity to speaker-magnets, particularly output-tubes?