It takes more than lightning fingers........

[Jabberwocky]

I know a lot of 'bedroom' guitarists. Some of them are utterly stunning in ability and technique.

 

I know a markedly fewer number of guitarists who gig with a band.

 

So why is this?

 

Is it because it takes a helluva lot more than just being a decent muso to get out there and gig?

 

Here is where my musings took me. See if you agree, disagree, can relate, can add to......

 

Ok, beginning with talent......a smidgin of that is probably a pre requisite, however, I believe that a little talent with a lot of hard work can have as much value as a lot of talent and very little work. I guess a lot of talent and a lot of work is the ideal !!

 

Secondly, your own reflection in the bedroom mirror clutching your favourite piece of Swamp Ash, Basswood or Mahogany or whatever, is a darn sight less critical than two hundred half drunk night lifers who are going to be less than kind if they dont like what you play. So.....point two, it takes balls to gig, ( or at least a disregard for human life.....your own!)

 

What else?....well you gotta be organised, and prepared to muck in with the rest of your band to buy gear, organise transport, sell the band, handle the cash flow, advertise, deal with clients.

 

How about diplomacy??....when the singer throws his or her toys out of the pram just before a gig cos the stuffed olive has lost its pimento or the bread is the wrong size(Spinal Tap for those not in the know)you gotta be able to keep it together, help smooth the crisis over so the band can play.

Or how about dealing with venue owners with an attitude who want to cut your fee because it was a Wednesday night and only 50 people showed up??

 

Not to mention having to keep your own ego in check so that maybe the band members can rub along and not cause the whole project to collapse because of 'Musical Differences'

 

Energy, geez you need energy. If you got roadies, cool, but if not, its three tons of PA and backline to be shifted twice, then two and a half hours of hot, loud performance then the after gig party......so forget about too much sleep on a gig night.

 

Consider the time involved....rehearsals, equipment maintenance, the running of the band, gigs themselves.

 

How about Focus. You lose concentration just as the drummer decides the next bar only has three beats in it, not four, and the whole thing goes pear shaped. Not to mention remembering the keys for every song, amp settings, effects settings, cues, Capo moments. So yeah....you've got to stay focussed for the entire performance....can be tiring.

 

So what we got so far??.....a gigging guitarist needs to be a talented, focussed, energetic, ego free diplomat with balls, who does not need too much sleep and who has a lot of time to spare....

 

Why do we do it??......easy.

 

Coz we love it !!!

 

Look forward to reading what you guys have gleaned from experience !

[Pappy P]

Hey Jab.

 

Nice to meet you.

 

I've not had an opurtunity to read any of your posts.

 

This one is interesting.

 

I'm a bedroom guitarist that like to write his own music. I don't feel like the most talented guitarist.

 

I've only had the oppurtunity to fill in with my church band, which has been a good experience.

 

I'd love to get into a band that plays original music.

 

I think your right about the dedication and energy required.

 

Thanks for opening this topic.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Uhmmm... no.

 

I think the hardest part of being in a band is finding other musos who share the same musical interests.

 

Screw what one looks like in the mirror, unless you're dying to be in some cookie cutter band or just do covers, finding the right people is what takes up the most time.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Vince C.:

Uhmmm... no.

 

I think the hardest part of being in a band is finding other musos who share the same musical interests.

 

Screw what one looks like in the mirror, unless you're dying to be in some cookie cutter band or just do covers, finding the right people is what takes up the most time.

I'm one of those that "Just do covers"(try it sometime on difficult material, see how ya pull it off! hard work dedication and a fair amount of talent cookie cutters and all!!

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by ellwood:

I'm one of those that "Just do covers"(try it sometime on difficult material, see how ya pull it off! hard work dedication and a fair amount of talent cookie cutters and all!!

Yeah, I THOUGHT I'd be hearing from you Seriously though, it's a lot easier to find people when you're playing in a covers band. You know you want to play specific songs, and you can tell if it's working because whatever you're playing sounds recognizeably like the original. Also, people in covers bands tend to have very well defined goals up to and including what $$$'s they hope to earn by playing.

 

Originals bands are much harder to put and keep together because one isn't always sure of what the original song should sound like or where the band should utlimately be going. Often enough you find yourself lost and with three other guys trying to hog the compass, figuratively speaking.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Thats very true Vince! I know what you mean thats why SMART original groups do both (can be done Ive done it) you work doing covers and work on your original material and fit it in your set lists here and there. This way you get to be in front of an audience, cut your performance teeth, get tight as a group/vocals.. and make money while supporting your original work. Ya and its alot easier to find really GOOD musicians in a cover group IF there is enough combined talent to grab GOOD paying jobs (thats the trick) and it is VERY competitive...it crackes me up everytime I hear the comment "music is not a competition" its only NOT a competition when you are NOT going to try to sell it or if you do it for some "Artsey Fartsey" reason.

[Gruupi]

I think part of the reason is that there are probably as many guitarists around as there are of all the other instruments combined. It is a very accessable intrument to start with. There are lots of bands with 2 or 3 or even more guitarists. There aren't enough drummers, bass players, and singers to go around. There is competition to be able to find a position available for guitar.

 

So you have to be able to play pretty good to even have a shot to start working with other musicians. Lots of guitar players can't learn the ins and outs of playing with others as easily because of this. Alot of drummers, bass players and singers can come to a practice session and learn their parts on the fly almost. Most guitarists have to spend many hours in preparation ahead of time to learn the songs. Heck, singers can learn their parts singing in the car. I'm not saying that all other musicians don't work hard, but I bet most weekend cover band drummers don't even take their drums out of the car between gigs.

 

Its no wonder guitarists develop egos. You have to dedicate alot of time over years of practice to be able to be good enough to play in a band. Obviously these are generalizations. Many other musicians of all instruments take the time to become virtuosos, and many guitarists can learn faster than others and can get pretty good really fast. Since groups can always find a good guitar player, they can be picky about the style and the personality of whom they chose. There are always ten other guys ready to take your spot that are better than you are. Alot of us just give up. I have been itching to get in a band again lately but I realize I am going to have to go through all the crap that comes with it.

[Mass Effect]

Originally posted by Jabberwocky:

I know a lot of 'bedroom' guitarists. Some of them are utterly stunning in ability and technique.

 

I know a markedly fewer number of guitarists who gig with a band.

 

So why is this?

I think if you really like music just playing along with CD's or learning licks at home is a way to enjoy it further. It gets you closer to it, to kind of see the inner workings of it.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Thats very true Vince! I know what you mean thats why SMART original groups do both (can be done Ive done it) you work doing covers and work on your original material and fit it in your set lists here and there.

Errr... uhmmm... you're probably right. But it doesn't always work, of course.

 

If everybody in the band is into Capt. Beefheart, you're going to have a hard time slipping an original past an audience that is expecting you to do some more Police covers!

 

And even if you do mainly covers with a few originals thrown in, you still have to find people with whom you will want to work on creating those originals.

 

I fully expect other people in whatever band I'm in to inspire me. Often, when I form a band, I'm not sure what I want a band to sound like, and at auditions I'm always looking for that elusive "this is IT!" factor. Depending on what the other people are into, I can be pretty flexible with whatever vision I was having.

 

I'm not into leading a band, I'm far more interested in a democratic situation where everyone's on the same page. It doesn't always happen and I'm usually stuck with being a benign dictator, much to my (hidden) disgust.

 

So I'm really expecting a LOT from the world. And that's before worrying about whatever the heck I look like in the mirror!

[Dr. Ellwood]

I remember going to auditions and listening to what the bands VISION was! you know who they where listening too and who they thought they sorta wanted to be like or sound like. Usually I was able to fit in and when they wanted to do covers of those groups who they liked I already had my part learned. This was seen as very cool and I was asked if I wanted to join as the guitar player of one of them anyway. I did NOT join because their long range vision was shallow and not original actually, it was usually so cloned to their heroes styles that everything sounded like watered down rehash third hand junk. There was no plan at all for gigging or places to play no business sense. They usually scoffed at guys doing covers and working but they seemed content to play in the basement forever...well except for maybe somehow magically being discovered.... but usually they didnt have the chops to be discovered

[Gruupi]

I agree with Elwood to a point. But if those guys are happy with their "vision" and only play in their basement, then more power to them. Sure you may not want to join them if your goals are to be rich and or famous, but most folks play music just because they like to.

 

It usually ends up being a compromise of some sort. Either the band members all compromise to each other ( or to one strong leader), or they compromise some of what they do to get gigs consistantly. It is really quite rare for a group of musicians to get together, create an original sound, and then be accepted by the public.

 

I probably have decent enough chops to play in a working band. But I don't have the performance stage presense skills to go very far. I also don't want to live in a bus. I also don't think I have anything original that is going to change the face of popular music. I think most people here are content to play in their bedroom or in small local groups. Sure we would jump at the chance to be heard by more people, but really we just play because its FUN.

 

I will say that there is nothing more pleasing in the whole world than when your band plays a new song for the first time and it all comes together. It doesn't matter if its original or cover, its a feeling like no other. For me this doesn't have anything to do with being a rockstar or having an audience love you, its just the feeling in the room when you know you've just made great music. I enjoy crowd feedback and sometimes it can be quite amusing, but it never gets me off like just playing does. Maybe others crave the attention or glory or acceptance, but that just isn't my motivation.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Yep I sure do understand your point Gruupi and of coarse the music and playing just to play has always been my motivation too. But playing live in front of people was always my passion. Rock star stuff is something from another planet..Im only talking about playing good gigs where there are lots of people and the band does an excellant job on everything and the tons of work pays off. One of my biggest thrills was playing a gig and being asked to come back an play again. Well its just different motivations that gets us to the same place I guess. But whats wrong with gettin great feed back..a feeling of accomplishment AND making great money for it! I guess thats at the root of my point..you can do it all if you work hard enough.

[musicalhair]

Hey Jabberwocky I don't even look in the mirror to shave, let alone playing guitar.

 

Gigging and/or playing in a band is as much about the social aspects of this as it is with anything else. There is a kind of validation that only comes from playing a show, and you can build community in a manner of speaking through shows which a very cool thing. One band I had tried this idea, we included in our mail to our mailing list about an up coming show a "book drop" idea. We filled a box with books we read and thought others should too. We asked people to bring a book and to take another. We figured it was a real hippie way to share knowledge and save money on buy books. It went over OK.

 

I might not be "on topic" with that but I'm just saying playing shows can be a great thing on a lot levels.

 

As for respect for life, well I don't know what clubs you're hanging out in but I'm a lover not a fighter, I guess. It is all good.

 

Fear like in stage fright is kind of irrational. When I make a mistake on stage with a band I look out into the audience with a huge grin on my face. Acknowledge and move on. No one really notices anyway most times. I used to tell really bad jokes to break the ice, having like my own little "Andy Kaufmann" moment before getting to far into a set.

 

As for focus and wacked out drummers, well I've found that there are a lot of very talented people out there. I think the keys is never to look for pre-defined things in them but to see what they're bringing to the mix.

 

I think for a songwriter a show is a way to validate what their working on. For a "musician" is the primary means of communication for a lot anyway. Many guys are happy writting away and perfecting their songs in home studios, I played with one such guy and he needed to play shows to see how people liked stuff, after he finished it. Some people re-work material based on precieved reactions.

 

The most fun I had in a band was an improv jam band where the audience/band intereaction really often created what we played. We'd often make stuff up right there on the spot, and when playing things that we've sort of worked through, or -- God forbid-- actual songs we still had enough freedom to completely change up the feel and groove often, all based on the vibe that night. The show was about the ... synergy man

 

Hey Ellwood, Vision???

 

When I think of vision, I'm sorry, but I think of miniskirts, or those tight mini dresses things. And in the end I'm all sweaty and foul from the lights and the effort and setting up and breaking down and the worring about where my low pass filter is or that patch cable and if the amp is sitting on the dolly well enough to make the trip. I'm not much for picking up the women in the mini-dresses but they sure are nice to see. So, I'm down with the bands "Vision", I guess.

[Dr. Ellwood]

HAIR,read it again ..I said THEIR VISION..NOT MINE!!!! all I was doing was trying to get a gig!!!

[Guitarzan]

the only problem i usually have with band members is when they want more than they are willing to put in.

like lining up a gig before the practice is a major issue i have with drummers i have played with.

or singers that pick songs that they love but are not much for an audience to get into.

know your audience. if you are doing covers, cool, but play someting they will enjoy.

i have no problems playing a song that is played to death if someone enjoys it.

i dislike some songs but i am not there to play for myself.

i am at a crossroads right now and most of what i say is related to my experiences in my band.

some members have big dreams, and no goals.

i consider myself "bandless" at the moment because we are so sporadic lately that it is the same as occasional jamming.

i am sure some members think it is OK.

we had a plan to do a new CD and then go from there. i am ready and nothing is happening, i offer comments on arrangements to our songs and deaf ears greet me.

i love the guys i play with but they are not very serious, and i take it fine, but i really have to bite my lip when they start dreaming out loud.

since i joined we have gotten no further with recording. so i am focusing on some of my own ideas and soon i will be trying to get some way set up at home to record.

i just need to capture these ideas when they happen. i need to give birth.

i am quite happy and if anyone else enjoys what they are doing that is good.

some people enjoy playing covers and the feelin they get when playing is the reward. nothing wrong with that. some need to play what is in thier head and do the original thing, thats ok to. i don't really take the time to dismiss others pleasure as valid or not.

as for my band, i am ready willing and able, but growing tired of procrastination.

this is my problem because i am part of the unit.

i would like to play with as many people as i could because there are so many types of music i love. i may have to get around abit more.

 

i got off subject in a way.

i agree with the convictions and diplomacy issues of being in a band.

after awhile you sort of know exactly how each member is going to act, or take things. if one stays in a band you have to accept them for who they are. but you shouldn't have to be the only one who is working on goals.

i am rambling i know.

 

i just want to say i like playing, tweaking and talking guitar. so i am a happy guy..see i am smiling

[Guitarzan]

i forgot to add to the main comment about it takes more than lightning fingers. i agree. i may not be able to rip off every lick of (fill in artist here).

but i can think on my own and have enough imagination to create something or add to things.

some guitar players are gifted enough to play whatever they want. if it is already written or recorded. and some can play lead all night but have no idea what the 3rd of f# is , if they know where f# is ( the whole chord, not the root 5th diad). i don't know much, but what i know i understand and i consider that more important to me.

it is OK to pose with your guitar in your hand in front of the mirror, if you want to hold something else that is weird!

[musicalhair]

Aww Ellwood, I knew what they meant by vision. I'm just saying what I thought of.

 

As for "vision", well I do beleive in setting short term goals and periodically assessing progress and seeing if the goals were met and if the desired result was acheived and figuring out what went wrong if it didn't and figuring out the next set of goals when they do. That isn't a "vision" (as I've alreay established, a tight mini-dress is) but a half-assed business plan, I guess. The "other half" of the half-assed business plan (making it a fully assed business plan) is usually worked out once a band "forms" or as I decide to accept "being in the band" so to speak. A lot more plan than actual business, for me anyway.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Gotcha Hair!! Yep most guys dont like talking business or stratgey... but its what makes it all happen!

[musicalhair]

Yeah man! That and the mini-dresses.

[Dr. Ellwood]

HAY stop with the mini dresses already!! I gettin too horney over here

[picker]

But, lightning fingers don't hurt, either...

[Guitarzan]

no they don't.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

We filled a box with books we read and thought others should too. We asked people to bring a book and to take another.

That sounds like a wonderful idea I love things like that.

[Pappy P]

Originally Posted by Ellwood:

 

HAY stop with the mini dresses already!! I gettin too horney over here

LOL

 

Ellwood:

 

I get major wood looking at the guitars in your Avatar.

[Jabberwocky]

I love writing long rambling posts......folks get sooooo much more out of them than was ever intended!!

You know the best thing about being a gigging guitarist tho........you get laid far more than if you were no guitarist at all.....tell me I am wrong !

 

Sheeesh life is good....

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Jabberwocky:

You know the best thing about being a gigging guitarist tho........you get laid far more than if you were no guitarist at all.....tell me I am wrong !

I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with you, but why do I get the feeling Brad Pitt gets laid more often than Johnny Hiland?

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Pappy Pappadopalus:

Originally Posted by Ellwood:

 

HAY stop with the mini dresses already!! I gettin too horney over here

LOL

 

Ellwood:

 

I get major wood looking at the guitars in your Avatar.

Hay Pappy you and me both!!!

[MILLO]

Originally posted by Vince C.:

Originally posted by Jabberwocky:

You know the best thing about being a gigging guitarist tho........you get laid far more than if you were no guitarist at all.....tell me I am wrong !

I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with you, but why do I get the feeling Brad Pitt gets laid more often than Johnny Hiland?

Hiland gets to lay down and eat three pizzas and a steak more often than Brad Pitt, that's for sure! Does that count as "getting laid"?