Delay vs. Echo

[timrocker]

Are those terms interchangeable? On some FX pedals you see delay, others echo. I am currently using an Alesis Nanoverb on the delay setting, digital obviously. When I get my Roland RE201 real tape echo (a different type of echoplex with multiple heads, I believe) will I hear a very different thing, or not?

[Steevo]

I'll take a stab at it...

 

Delay can be as little as one repeat of the input signal at a later time.

 

Echo would generally be two or more repeats of the input signal with reduced amplitude for each one.

 

If you get lots of echos bouncing around, in dense time proximity, soon you can't tell them apart and you get Reverb.

 

So sometimes delay and echo are used interchangably but they really are a little different. For instance, we've all heard about pre-delaying a reverb. In that case you would be using delay in the strict sense of the term. You would never 'pre-echo' the reverb.

 

That's the way I think of it anyway...

[timrocker]

Thanks Steevo. I think I get that. Has anyone tried that Guyatone Real Tape Echo? It's like $850 but they sure make it sound like a fab thing. An update of the Echoplex with more glitch-resistant parts, or so I gather.

[jetboy]

mike fuller is just releasing a rebuild of the old fashioned tape echos. Looks really cool but not cheap

[jetboy]

whoops, and damn I didn't win the one he was giving away!!!!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Now, a ss/tape echo/delay unit, a tube/tape unit, and a DDL (digital delay) unit that rolls off the highs and/or introduces more and more signal degradation with each repeat, whether inherently or by adjustable parameter settings, will sound more like natural acoustic echoes than a SS or SS/DDL unit that repeats a crystal-clear, "hi-fi" signal every time.

 

Warmer-sounding, vintage-flavored delay units are often thought of as "echoes", while a DDL unit that can repeat super long (or super-short, super-precise) delay-times for looping, sound-reinforcement/correction, and recording purposes are more often thought of as "delays".

[timrocker]

So if each successive repeat rolls off highs, it's considered more of an "echo"? Where as if each repeat is audibly no different, it's more like "delay"? Is that the essence of it?

[revolead]

I think of tape echo as more organic. I think of digital delay as an exact replication of the signal, using binary code. Somewhere in the middle would be solid-state analog delay, which to me sounds almost as good as genuine tape echo. Especially when you compare the costs of a good tape echo unit.

Some of the best analog delays I would say are the Electro-Harmonix Memory Man, Way Huge Aqua Puss, and the Boss DM-2.

However, the digital revolution is tending to fade the line between all of these, with the introduction of organic sounding digital delays and delay modelers.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Yeah, Revolead- those EH Memory Man pedals sound awesome! Especially the "Deluxe" model. Fat, warm, a little distorted, and sooo good with some modulation dialed in! Actually better than some "tape" units!

 

Originally posted by timrocker:

"So if each successive repeat rolls off highs, it's considered more of an "echo"? Where as if each repeat is audibly no different, it's more like "delay"? Is that the essence of it?"

Yeah, that's what the general terminology is leaning towards these days. Anything that "delays" is a delay of some sort, but not all delays can sound either like a natural "echo", or a vintage-type (tubes, tape, analog, etc.).

 

But as Revolead points out, more and more new DDL-types can. Most noticebly on multi-effects and modelers aimed at guitarists. Also, "echo" effects are usually done with relatively short delays; 50 ms or so with only one repeat for rockabilly slapback, on up towards 80 ms to around 1,000 ms (1 sec) for treatments ranging from natural sounding echoes to trippy Hendrix 'n' Floyd 'n' Flaming Lips trails 'n' flashback effects.

 

Longer delays, ranging from seconds to minutes, can be used for looping and even recording.

 

In the studio, you could use tape or even microphones placed distantly to achieve some of these effects, that's where all this came from. If you want to take the time and effort, you can get seriously cool sounds that way. Just listen to any classic recordings of any style made in the '40s, '50s, '60s, 70's... it's all over that stuff! And what we all seem to want to sound like, only with a shortcut!

[fantasticsound]

Timrocker - The two terms are interchangeable. Neither have a standardized definition in relation to electronic or electro-mechanical music processing effect boxes and pedals.

 

Eko - was used extensively to describe early reverb units.

 

Echo - More often than not is used to describe the distinct, short delay sound associated with early rock or rock-a-billy. But many people use it to describe any delay, multiple repeat or single repeat.

 

Delay - again, a generic term to describe any type of repeating effect. it is (as Steevo mentioned) the term of choice when describing a component of another effect. (I.e., pre-delay on reverb, chorus, or other delay/modulation effects.)

 

Again, most effect manufacturers prefer to describe short (less than 125 ms) repeats as echo, and longer repeat times as delay, just for differentiation.

 

The origins of each term are pretty obvious. Echo, from the description of reflected sound in Canyons or large halls. Delay, from the fact these sounds are delayed in time.

 

Otherwise, the use of these terms are purely subjective.