Bummer, grooves in my frets

[LiveMusic]

What's up with this? There are grooves in the frets under my b-string. They start at fret 5. As you go down to fret 1, they get progressively deeper. I just notice this when I broke a string. As I looked at it, the light hit just right and I could see indentations. I run my fingernail over it and my gosh, there are grooves worn in there!

 

This is a Taylor 310KCE. This might explain something. I bought this guitar Feb 2001. Before the warranty expired, I drove 2 1/2 hours to the dealer where I bought it and told him I have a buzz. And that it seems to be the b-string. I think what he did was hammer on a fret to lower it. Anyway, I got back home and later found it, it wasn't fixed. I never drove back to do it again, since it's five hours round trip.

 

Since that time, I've played the heck out of this guitar, daily. The buzz was never too troublesome. It would come and go.

 

I don't know anything about gear but heck, this doesn't seem right.

 

I also don't understand why I broke a string. I just replaced these strings yesterday and today discoverd that I tuned my guitar a half-step too low. From an old upright, which is obviously off. It was tuned to Eb. I was tuning up and it popped.

[NMcGuitar]

The string breaking could just be a bad string (they do happen from time to time).

 

As far as your frets go, it sounds like they've gotten worn. I've had a similar thing happen with the grooves - maybe some fretwire is made out of a softer metal than others?

All I can suggest is to have a pro take a look at it. Maybe somebody else here has a more useful suggestion?

 

BTW - you're supposed to have the groove in your playing , not your frets!

[Teahead]

I'm not exactly sure what the cause could be, you should have it checked out by someone who knows their stuff.

The first few frets on my Les Paul suffered similar dents a year ago. The good news is the guy stoned my frets and rectified the problem for a very reasonable price. I'd be surprised if your issue isn't just as easy to fix.

Others will offer more specific and appropraite advice I'm sure, but don't worry too much yet, Tea.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Having worn down spots on your frets is inevitable, as the high grade "music wire" used for strings is very top-shelf, hard steel. The most common fretwire materials are softer and more malleable. The B- and (in the case of most electrics, strung with plain 3rds) G-strings, being heavier gauge, will wear low spots in frets quite easily. People who play more and/or with a heavy touch will get this sooner, those who play less often and/or with a lighter touch will get it much later; but everyone will eventually get it, to some degree.

 

A "fret-job" consisting of filing, hammering, and leveling frets will take care of light wear, while heavy wear will necessitate too much removal of fret material to file them down enough, and require a partial refret. Note that Stevie ray Vaughan, for one example, had to have his favorite guitars totally refretted on a fairly regular basis!

 

A light fret-job will probably take care of this, and may even make your guitar play better than ever. If your guitar is still under warranty, make sure that you take it to a Taylor authorized repairer/luthier. Even if the warranty has expired, take it to someone who fits that description.

 

If you have a lot of trouble wearing out your frets in the long run-

 

(A) -Work on a lighter touch with your fretting hand

 

(B) -Consider having the newer hard stainless steel frets installed, by someone who has installed them before (and knows, in general, what they're doing when it comes to fret-jobs and refrets). These have been gaining popularity of late, though for years the softer metals were used most often because they're easier to work with. One possible trade-off when going to stainless steel frets might be wearing out your strings faster; Personally, I'd rather change strings than frets, so my first refret will be stainless, unless an even better material has come around by then!

[Bonedog]

You will get pits in your frets over time depending on how much you use your guitar, how hard you press, etc. This happens with all guitars that use standard fretwire.

 

Are you experiencing any noticeable intonation problems because of this? I doubt that it is causing string breakage but anything is possible. The fix is to take it to a guitar repair shop and get a level, crown and dress done on the guitar. You can usually get this done 2-3 times (sometimes more or less) before you have to get the guitar refretted. I don't know where you are but in my neck of the woods a LC&D costs about $80 at a good repair shop.

 

Good luck with your problem.

 

Scott

[Caevan O’Shite]

Also-

 

-When you take it to have a fret-job done, first demonstrate to the tech who will be doing the job what and where the problems are, being sure to give some playing examples. Discuss the strings you use, and every when, where, and how of your playing and that guitar.

 

No two people play exactly the same way, so a tech could believe that the problem is fixed, while it still just plain doesn't work for the customer! The problem may even be misdiagnosed to start with if you don't demonstrate things, as sometimes there is more than one "ailment" contributing to a given "symptom".

 

Allow a good tech to give you pointers on your playing techniques, if they offer suggestions and/or observations connected to buzzes, wear, and such; swallow your pride and fairly consider and weigh whatever they have to say, some of these folks really, really know what they're talking about, and wouldn't open their mouths without someting to say!

[LiveMusic]

How the heck do you find a 'good' tech? I could take it back to where I bought it, 2.5 hours away. Assuming I could call them and tell them I will wait while they do it. Or does this take more than one day?

 

Should I ask 'how long has your tech been doing repair' or what? I have no idea. I know one tech but have no idea how good he is. He commented months ago that my action was too low. Heck, I like it. I think.

[Bonedog]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

How the heck do you find a 'good' tech? I could take it back to where I bought it, 2.5 hours away. Assuming I could call them and tell them I will wait while they do it. Or does this take more than one day?

 

Should I ask 'how long has your tech been doing repair' or what? I have no idea. I know one tech but have no idea how good he is. He commented months ago that my action was too low. Heck, I like it. I think.

Doing a level, crown and dress is a pretty simple job. As long as the tech that goes at it does so with the proper knowledge, care and tools, it's almost impossible to fuck up. I disagree that you should take it to a Taylor service center regardless. Take it to someone with a good reputation and experience. Don't be too freaked out, it's easy. I worked in a custom/repair shop for a while and I did it this day in day out....it really is simple.

 

Scott

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hmmmnn... maybe you could e-mail Taylor for recommendations, explaining everything that you've said here? They should be able to steer you straight.

 

If a given shop has a guitar repair/mod/building fascility on premises, especially right where you can see it, and they're busy doing repairs/mods/etc., that's a very good sign. Especially if they also carry Taylors and other fine makes.

 

As for the one repair-tech's comment about your action: Was your action that low to start, or have you or someone else lowered it by sanding down the bridge, or other means? Or was it a matter of the amount of relief ("bow") in the neck, due to truss-rod adjustment, or a lack thereof? These things all contribute to string buzzes, a very low action with light strings, no relief at all, and a heavy touch is a recipe for string-buzz. Throw in some fret-wear, and it's a sure thing!

[LiveMusic]

The low action is apparently why I immediately fell for this guitar. It was so easy to play, I couldn't believe it. What I'm saying is that I thought Taylors were known for this, so his comment... I thought to myself 'well, it's a Taylor.'

[Sad Example]

Perhaps a guitar with stainless steel frets is what you need. Check out the parker fly.

[Bonedog]

Couple of questions:

 

1) Is the Buzz there when the "B" string is played open, or only when played closed?

 

2) Is there an area where you fret where the buzz is worse?

 

2) Where did the string break? The nut or saddle?

 

If the string buzzes when played open you may have a little nick out of the saddle or nut. This would also make sense if you broke the string in either one of these areas. If the buzz is bad around the 2nd/3rd frets, it's probably that you need a little "releif" in the neck. If it's in a different spot...you probably have a high or low fret.

 

Hope any of this helps.

Scott

[roy d]

Duke,

 

You have fret wear... pure and simple. It happens. Fret wire is a softer metal than your strings (or your strings would wear out really fast). Yes, a few guitars have stainless steel frets and the strings go very fast on them. Others have frets of varying degrees of hardness but they all wear eventually. It is more extreme in places where you play alot... ie. you play lots of C chords. On acoustic guitars, most folk see exactly the pattern you describe as they play the guitar.

 

The cure is to get a fret job or have your frets re-leveled although I would guess that neither is needed yet.

 

The buzz is probably unrelated to the fret wear. I would guess that either you need a bit of a truss rod adjustment or you have humidity problems with your guitar. Check out the Taylor website for info on both. If it is due to the fret, it would happen only on the b string when you play at the first fret. If that is what is happening, you probably need some work done on the frets.

 

The broken string is certainly unrelated to the fret wear. Strings break sometimes. Perhaps this one had a weak spot on it. It may be that there is a problem with your nut (if the string broke at the nut that might indicate you should look there) but more likely it was just a stress break at the tuning machine. Again, it happens.

 

roy

[Dak Lander]

What Royd said. Shit fire Duke, My 30 some odd year old Yamaha FG150 has some fret wear on it & the only time it's really noticable is on a bend. If your Taylor has had a buzz it should have been taken care of by Taylor, via your vendor. If the guitar came with stock strings and was buzzing there was a problem. If you went to a smaller string that could lower the action and cause a buzz. If it were the first scenario Taylor should have fixed the problem. If your vendor's tech couldn't rectify the problem you should have gone fdeeper into the situation, including contacting Taylor directly.

As it is, fret wear is normal & if it doesn't affect intonation, nor does it affect your bending capabilities, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Shoot, if you really look at the situation, if you play a guitar at all, there will be fret wear & if you don't want it you'll have to change frets every year or so & that will wear out the fret board so you'll have to change that pretty regularily too. I do believe that the fret board wear will cause more tonal problems than a bit of fret wear.

 

All in all, relax Duke. It's all normal.

[Frunobulax]

I was just wondering if using coated strings (elixers, etc) might reduce fret wear. Plastic has to be software than fret wire.... or does the plastic wear off?

 

On the other hand, don't Taylors come with Elixers? Did you continue to use them or switch to something else?

 

Dave

[LiveMusic]

For the first year, I guess I kept Elixirs on it. Then, I started using uncoated strings. But I have played this guitar a LOT in the 33 months I have owned it. I just was not aware of fret grooves. Over 37 years of playing, I never played a guitar enough to wear them down. Until the past three years.

 

The only reason I didn't have the buzz fixed AGAIN is because how far away the dealer is. Plus the fact that it was not intolerable. And it came and went. In fact, the tech said it was due to the gas heat in my home. When I took it to him, it was winter.

 

The buzz is kinda getting on my nerves now. These strings are 13/56. I've used lighter ones off and on but except for the last ones before this set (which were ELECTRIC guitar strings cuz it's all I had), the last few sets are 13/56.

 

BTW, my local tech friend, I took it to him and he said he could crown it for $35. Seems like a fair deal to me.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Well, the whole "heater" thing, and the way the buzz problems come and go, indicates a neck truss-rod adjustment is in order from time to time. Standard stuff, waaay easy to do yourself, just move in 1/4- or even 1/8-turns at a time. There are loads of books, magazine articles, 'sites, 'pages, and posts on this Forum addressing the how, why, when, etc. on this.

 

Going from lighter to really light (electric) to medium strings will make your neck move back and forth, not hurting anything, but the changes will affect relief and thus buzzing.

 

Some people even have a slightly "taller" saddle for one part of the year, and a slightly "shorter" saddle for the other, to compensate for humidity and temperature induced changes in neck relief and a slight "bellying up" in the top. I believe that Dan Erlewine covered these things in his column in Guitar Player magazine before.

[D_dup3]

I presume these slits are parallel to the strings...?

I've never encountered this problem & have no immediately practical comment other than it doesn't really sound like normal fretwear to me.

Even if you don't bend strings much, the pressure against the frets is usually not so directly in the exact same spot as to cause a groove to form, at least in my opinion.

At any rate, good luck...maybe doing a bit of stringbending is the answer...

[Frunobulax]

If it gets worse in winter, it could be a humidity problem and have little to do wit fret wear. Do you use a case humifier? Do you keep it in the case?

 

Personally, while I'm still waiting for my Taylor to arrive, I'm installing a whole house humidifier on my furnace. Good for the guitar and for me.

 

You can get a hygrometer ate radio sshack fairly cheap. Ideal humidity it about 47%. If you get below 30% or so, the action will tend to lower and you run the risk of more serious damage.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Frunobulax]

Good gosh my last message was typo city - sorry

[baronedo]

Unfortunately, fret grooves good hand in hand with fret wear. The first line of defense is usually a "stone and polish" fret job from an experienced tech, assuming there is still enough fret material left. This basically, hones and polishes away fret imperfections along the entire fret board. Before you have this done, be sure to tell the tech about your fret buzzing problems which could be a combination of fret problems, truss rod/neck curvature adjustment, etc.

 

After time if the frets are too worn to take another stone and polish, you move up to a refretting job.

[george costanza]

This could be a great blues song, ala "Stones in my Passway"...