Feel free to ask Myles

[trator]

Miles, can I have some help from you? I am a guitarist who owns a homestudio and makes some crappy records. Well, I need to play some bass, cause I´m tired of my Roland Rap-10 Card bass sounds. Actually, I never played bass in my life and I´m a low budget man. After looking for a while, a I found two basses I can afford, that I played at the store and liked. Peavey Milestone III (Vietnam!) and OLP MM (China, I guess). Which one should I choose? I mean, what would you do in my place. Just remember: I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where is difficult to find others instruments like Carvin, for example. Thank you very much.

[michael saulnier]

Yahoo...

 

My 10 tube ultimate Class A vacuum tube kit arrived today.

 

Thanks Myles! For letting me know you had these available and for the speedy service in sending them out!

 

I feel like a kid at Christmas. I'll probably be up till morning trying different ones in my UniValve.

 

What fun!

 

guitplayer

[Dave da Dude]

Myles,

 

Now that I have a few minutes, I'll explain fully why I want to do what I previously explained.

 

The biasing box that I want to build would have multiple sockets to match the multiple sockets on the amplifier. This is matter of convenience, not bang for the buck. Convenience is often not cost effective. I know that and am willing to accept that in these instances since I don't play as often as I should / would like to.

 

The dual parallel sockets is in the same "convenience" category. I want to try both 6L6 and EL34 tubes and switch back and forth. The amp has a bias switch for those two tubes, so if I set the bias correctly the bias switch will take care of that. If the tubes are in parallel and switched in and out of the power (all) circuit(s) I can switch from one tube to another.

 

Since I play infrequently and at home only for my pleasure, these modifications will let me enjoy playing, not waiting (for biasing, tube cool down, etc.). This convenience is worth the "buck", even though it's out of line with the "bang".

 

I was looking only for expert (Myles, that's YOU) opinion on any technical reasons not to do either (impedance, power matching, ??). I gather from your responses that there are no concerns?

 

I went to the site you recommended and found the sockets. Thank you very much for your help as always.

 

A faithful follower of Myles The Great, The Guitar Forums guitar amplifier Guru extraordinaire.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by trator:

Miles, can I have some help from you? I am a guitarist who owns a homestudio and makes some crappy records. Well, I need to play some bass, cause I´m tired of my Roland Rap-10 Card bass sounds. Actually, I never played bass in my life and I´m a low budget man. After looking for a while, a I found two basses I can afford, that I played at the store and liked. Peavey Milestone III (Vietnam!) and OLP MM (China, I guess). Which one should I choose? I mean, what would you do in my place. Just remember: I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where is difficult to find others instruments like Carvin, for example. Thank you very much.

trator ....

 

There are a lot of decent basses out there in lower price ranges. You may want to consider e-bay, where you may find a "standard", such as a USA Fender Precision bass also.

 

You can always go to musician friend, or sam ash, where you can mail order a lot of things like this. They ship everywhere. I think the Fender Squier line and their Precision Bass would be a good pick too.

 

Don't worry too much about the country or origin in a less expensive instrument. The tooling used is, a lot of times, a lot newer and more precise than older tooling in the USA at times

 

In the case of Vietnam, it has to be new tooling, as I personally saw a lot of their old stuff destroyed many years ago. In the case of China, they are doing amazing work. They also have a great work ethic .... if you don't give 150% as an employee in China, there are about a billion folks waiting to take your place!

 

In any case, it boils down to features, feel, and sound of any instrument, and this is all personal preference. Instruments in the same general price range have to be somewhat equal in workmanship and materials. If they are below the price standard, they go away. If above, the either keep the price, or try a more expensive line.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by guitplayer:

Yahoo...

 

My 10 tube ultimate Class A vacuum tube kit arrived today.

 

Thanks Myles! For letting me know you had these available and for the speedy service in sending them out!

 

I feel like a kid at Christmas. I'll probably be up till morning trying different ones in my UniValve.

 

What fun!

 

guitplayer

guitplayer ....

 

That kit is a killer kit. If there is a music style you cannot cover with that kit, I'd be hard pressed to think of what it would be.

 

That kit was put together by me, and was going to be for a client. He went off on tour for 4 months, and was not going to be in the studio. I thought I'd play on ebay, as most of my stuff is fixed price, but I went for the auction deal with a low reserve.

 

In any case, the NOS 6V6, if you check around, goes for as much as 50% of what you spent for the entire kit. I really thought that with the number of folks that have Univalves, it would go for at least two times what you got it for.

 

The 6L6 and EL-34 collection alone is pretty wide. So many folks have a single 6L6 and EL-34, and yet, they are all very different.

 

By the way, the 6V6 NOS that you have, that is what I use in my Univalve and GT Single. I use an NOS 12AX7 in V1 and 12AT7 in V2. It is "THE KILLER BLUES AMP" sound. Just make sure that when you use the 6V6, your amp is in the low voltage setting!

 

The bigger tubes .... killer jazz or loud rock tubes with a ton of headroom in the Univalve. It will be louder than a Fender Deluxe Reverb by a LOT, and it is louder than my Marshall JTM-45 when run into the Marshall 4x12 cab than the JTM-45 is.

 

Post what you find out in some sort of Univalve post here as you learn stuff. It may help a lot of other Univalve folks.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Myles,

 

Now that I have a few minutes, I'll explain fully why I want to do what I previously explained.

 

The biasing box that I want to build would have multiple sockets to match the multiple sockets on the amplifier. This is matter of convenience, not bang for the buck. Convenience is often not cost effective. I know that and am willing to accept that in these instances since I don't play as often as I should / would like to.

 

The dual parallel sockets is in the same "convenience" category. I want to try both 6L6 and EL34 tubes and switch back and forth. The amp has a bias switch for those two tubes, so if I set the bias correctly the bias switch will take care of that. If the tubes are in parallel and switched in and out of the power (all) circuit(s) I can switch from one tube to another.

 

Since I play infrequently and at home only for my pleasure, these modifications will let me enjoy playing, not waiting (for biasing, tube cool down, etc.). This convenience is worth the "buck", even though it's out of line with the "bang".

 

I was looking only for expert (Myles, that's YOU) opinion on any technical reasons not to do either (impedance, power matching, ??). I gather from your responses that there are no concerns?

 

I went to the site you recommended and found the sockets. Thank you very much for your help as always.

 

A faithful follower of Myles The Great, The Guitar Forums guitar amplifier Guru extraordinaire.

Dave,

 

From a safety or sound standpoint, this would all be fine. Lots of folks even prefer the impedance mismatch when using EL-34's in a 6L6 output transformer amp, and visa versa.

 

For tube experimentation, this could be pretty cool, so if you are up to the work, then by all means, go for it!

 

Let me know what happens!

[roy d]

Myles,

 

Let me join the throngs in thanking you...

 

I've recently begun playing electric again after years of acoustic only and have come across two amps that I'm considering - a Duncan Convertible ($350) and an all tube acoustic ($250) (I think it is a 164 but not sure - it is obviously a boogie clone down to the hardwood cabinet and cascading volume controls). Any thoughts on either? What should I look for or out for? Should I grab one of them before someone else does or keep looking?

 

Thanks for any input.

Roy

[Dave da Dude]

Myles,

 

I'm sorry if my reply of 10/31 sounded kinda terse. Well actually it WAS terse. I was in a hurry, saw your reply and said to myself, "Oh, ~'&^%, he didn't answer the question. He didn't understand me.

 

When I went back later and read my question and your answer I thought "Of course you didn't understand me! I worded my question (very) poorly."

 

Thank you for your knowledgable answer to my question now that I've made it clear.

 

As always, thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

I think it's just GREAT that we have an expert like you on this forum.

 

Dave

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by roy d:

Myles,

 

Let me join the throngs in thanking you...

 

I've recently begun playing electric again after years of acoustic only and have come across two amps that I'm considering - a Duncan Convertible ($350) and an all tube acoustic ($250) (I think it is a 164 but not sure - it is obviously a boogie clone down to the hardwood cabinet and cascading volume controls). Any thoughts on either? What should I look for or out for? Should I grab one of them before someone else does or keep looking?

 

Thanks for any input.

Roy

Roy....

 

The Duncan combos were very cool amps. The ones with the preamp modules that can be swapped can be a bit hard on the search for modules, but they have a stash of a few over at Westwood Music, buried in the back of their tube drawer, that folks in the store don't even know are there.

 

Frankly, they have been there for a decade, and without an amp, they are no good, and since they don't even know they are there, they are doing the store no good.

 

You might want to call there ( 310-478-4251 ) and ask for Brian. DON'T talk to Mark, he will raise the price LOTS

 

In any case, I would only pay about $10 each for any of them, even though they may have cost 20 times more back when new.

 

Even without additoonal modules, these were cool amps.

 

Now ... on the Acoustic .... BOOGIE CLONE .... NO WAY. Maybe in look, but Acoustic was actually around and solid BEFORE Boogie. Look at any of the Woodstock 1969 videos .... a lot of Acoustic amps on that stage!

 

I like all Acoustic amps ... I don't care if they are tube or solid state. The 260 and 360/370's were killer!

 

These can be found very cheaply when one is lucky. I'd grab it if it is cheap. They have their own sound, so at some time, they will be just the sound you may need for something.

 

Good luck !

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Myles,

 

I'm sorry if my reply of 10/31 sounded kinda terse. Well actually it WAS terse. I was in a hurry, saw your reply and said to myself, "Oh, ~'&^%, he didn't answer the question. He didn't understand me.

 

When I went back later and read my question and your answer I thought "Of course you didn't understand me! I worded my question (very) poorly."

 

Thank you for your knowledgable answer to my question now that I've made it clear.

 

As always, thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

I think it's just GREAT that we have an expert like you on this forum.

 

Dave

Dave,

 

No need to apologize, I don't remember anything "bad" that happened.

 

In any case, I hope I did answer your question, and if I did not, please feel free to ask again, or if you don't want to type a bunch (but it has a good point that it may help others), but if you want a quick answer, feel free to call me over at Groove Tubes direct and toll free at 1-818-459-5687. Just ask them to find me, as I am in and out.

[trator]

Thanx, Miles

[gearup]

Hello,

I was wondering if there was a way to get more CLEAN headroom and volume from a Hot Rod Deluxe?

 

It is all stock.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by gearup:

Hello,

I was wondering if there was a way to get more CLEAN headroom and volume from a Hot Rod Deluxe?

 

It is all stock.

gearup ....

 

Go to a higher range in output tubes (if you have Fender "whites" as an example, go to "reds" and rebias.

 

Same thing can be done using GT tubes, go for #8's or #9's and there you have an extensive choice of 6L6's, more so than the Fender stock tubes.

 

You can also replace the phase inverter with a 12AT7 rather than a 12AX7.

[amory_tarr]

Hey Myles, I sent you an email from your email given on this forum, but you didn't respond, so I thought I'd post my question on here in hopes that you can help me.

 

I'm needing to buy all new tubes both 6L6 and 12AX7's for my Triple rectifier to replace my Sovtek tubes that are in now that I DESPISE!. They may last, but as far as their tone, they might as well be used as fuel for heaters.

 

Originally, it looked like the JJ ECC83S's and 6L6C's were what I was going to get, the more I look into tubes, the more it looks like they're not what I'm looking for, and the more lost/confused I get.

 

Right now, my tone is buzzy, trebly, not enough gain (gain can be anywhere from 12-5 oclock and it's not very "full sounding". Also, my harmonics seem to choke and die rather than leaping off of the fretboard.

 

I'm not going for nu-metal tones, but more along the lines of hard rock/melodic metal. Harmonics are a neccasity and much more depth/deepness is needed.

 

For Power tubes, I think that my search is now down to: JJ/Harma 6l6GC's, GT 6l6GE's, Svetlana 6l6's or phillips-JAN 6l6's. Any comments on which would work better for me in your opinion? I have been told that the JJ/Harma's are better by Bob @ eurotubes, that the Svetlana's and Philips are better by KCANOSTUBES.com, and by Watford valves - they say the JJ/Harma's are the best current production 6L6, and yet I contacted them and they said that the Svetlana's were the best.

 

For Pre-amp tubes I really am at a total loss right now. Tubes that look apealing by reviews are:Ei elite series, EH's, RFT, Phillips-Jans.

This is where I need the most advice!!

 

Secondly, do I want to use all of one tube, or differnt combinations? As for the V1 - V5, which tubes work better in which positions relatively? Do I need to use a 12AX7 or 12AT7 in the PI(V5) slot?

 

Lastly, do you recomend using the 6L6 tubes in the EL-34 mode as suggested by eurotubes?

 

Thanks for any and all help!!

 

Kind Regards,

Amory Tarr

[trator]

Hi again, Miles,

 

I was wondering. Would you mind hear some crappy but honest sound?

 

http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/trator_rj/home.html?1036528089500

 

(click at "voyage". That is a solo that I played over a cakewalk song)

 

Can you make any (I really mean ANY) comment?

 

Thank you and sorry about that.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by amory_tarr:

Hey Myles, I sent you an email from your email given on this forum, but you didn't respond, so I thought I'd post my question on here in hopes that you can help me.

 

I'm needing to buy all new tubes both 6L6 and 12AX7's for my Triple rectifier to replace my Sovtek tubes that are in now that I DESPISE!. They may last, but as far as their tone, they might as well be used as fuel for heaters.

 

Originally, it looked like the JJ ECC83S's and 6L6C's were what I was going to get, the more I look into tubes, the more it looks like they're not what I'm looking for, and the more lost/confused I get.

 

Right now, my tone is buzzy, trebly, not enough gain (gain can be anywhere from 12-5 oclock and it's not very "full sounding". Also, my harmonics seem to choke and die rather than leaping off of the fretboard.

 

I'm not going for nu-metal tones, but more along the lines of hard rock/melodic metal. Harmonics are a neccasity and much more depth/deepness is needed.

 

For Power tubes, I think that my search is now down to: JJ/Harma 6l6GC's, GT 6l6GE's, Svetlana 6l6's or phillips-JAN 6l6's. Any comments on which would work better for me in your opinion? I have been told that the JJ/Harma's are better by Bob @ eurotubes, that the Svetlana's and Philips are better by KCANOSTUBES.com, and by Watford valves - they say the JJ/Harma's are the best current production 6L6, and yet I contacted them and they said that the Svetlana's were the best.

 

For Pre-amp tubes I really am at a total loss right now. Tubes that look apealing by reviews are:Ei elite series, EH's, RFT, Phillips-Jans.

This is where I need the most advice!!

 

Secondly, do I want to use all of one tube, or differnt combinations? As for the V1 - V5, which tubes work better in which positions relatively? Do I need to use a 12AX7 or 12AT7 in the PI(V5) slot?

 

Lastly, do you recomend using the 6L6 tubes in the EL-34 mode as suggested by eurotubes?

 

Thanks for any and all help!!

 

Kind Regards,

Amory Tarr

amory_tarr .....

 

I only get to my GAB hotmail a few times a week as I am not accepting any more clients as I am overbooked already. The email I check a few times a day is my techsupport email at Groove Tubes.

 

The stock Sovtek 12AX7WA's are not too super tone wise, but they are quiet (due to low gain). They are best replaced. I have a lot of preamp tube info on my personal website on 12AX7's in general.

It boils down to personal taste, by if you are agressive, then ECC83's in V1 and V2 are what some of my clients like, and if you want more warmth and versitility, then folks go for either the 12AX7R3 (Electro Harmonix) about 30% of the time, and 70% of them go for the 12AX7C9.

 

For 6L6's .... about 60% love the new USA GT's (they also have about a 6000 hour life, which doesn't hurt) .... and maybe 20% go for the 6L6S (JJ) and the remainder older (pre 2002) Svetlana's. My personal choice is the 6L6GE as a first choice and the big secret, the latest 6L6C off the latest tooling from China, with the straight bottle. I have a lot of the "C" version in a lot of clients Mesa and Bogner amps currently. I made up a bunch of these in sets for some tours, and had a few left that I was blowing out on ebay.

 

Your choking harmonics .... not closely matched output tubes, and/or an unbalanced phase inverter.

My website has articles on this.

 

The JJ Harma 6L6's are great. They are a more closely selected version of the JJ 6L6S. They have strong mids, so are more slanted to rock. They are not versitile enough for me for jazz or blues, but your amp is not exactly what one would call a jazz or blues amp

 

On the GE's .... one piece I wrote recently to Mark Baier (Victoria) ....

 

" .... The 6L6GE's are one of my overall favorite tube. The have sound stage

dispersion about 10 degrees wider per side, than any other 6L6 new tube,

and better than most NOS stuff as well. If you set up two amps the same,

as close as possible, with say Sovtek 5881WXT's, and then pull one set

from one of the amps, and replace them and rebias with GE, then you can

run a fun test. Set the GE amp at 75db 1 meter on axix with a signal

generator at 1000 or 400 hZ. The 5881 amp, set at 80db. Then ask

folks which is louder. They will always pick the GE amp. It is due to

having more harmonic overtones and a more complex tonal structure,

even with a simple single tone. Then if you play a guitar, it is even more

dramatic.

 

.....The other tube I like a lot is the KT-66HP. It is to me, maybe the nicest

blues tube in the 5881 / 6L6 / KT-66 family. The KT (kinkless tetrode) really does have a more linear response curve, as it was intended to have

when it was developed. I use these in a lot of clients Fender amps. "

 

(ignore the formatting here from my cut and paste, and perhaps the KT-66HP part in regard to your amp.)

 

On the Svets ... good tubes if you find ones where the date code of the year is older than 2002.

 

Both Bob at Eurotubes and Mike at KCA have their own feelings. I prefer the Philips, if comparing the two, but then again, that is my personal preference only. I think the Philips would be more versitile and has a more linear respponse curve (and on the response curve, that is not my preference, that is scientific data).

 

Both those fellows are pretty sharp cookies with lot of playing experience, not just tube selling experience, which is rare at times in the tube biz.

 

The Harma again, is a JJ factory tube. It has just gone through a more selective testing process that is a bit less intense than the GT process but more intense than most. GT tests for things like gas leakage, grid leakage, low vacuum etc. By the way, the GT version of this tube is on the GT website in the power tube area as the 6L6S.

 

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1231

 

I have my own sets of this tube at:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1830 and also on ebay.

 

On preamp tubes, look at my 12AX7 section and the stuff I said earlier in this answer.

 

You can use an AT7 or AX7, they are both different, the AT7 gives more clean headroom. That boils down to personal preference. Use a matched phase inverter:

 

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1722

 

or

 

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1723

 

I think the bias for the 6L6's in the EL-34 setting in the Mesa amps makes the amp run better. I have to agree with Bob on this point, but I normally check it in both positions to get as close to the ID that I want to see, depending on the tubes and their range.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by trator:

Hi again, Miles,

 

I was wondering. Would you mind hear some crappy but honest sound?

 

http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/trator_rj/home.html?1036528089500

 

(click at "voyage". That is a solo that I played over a cakewalk song)

 

Can you make any (I really mean ANY) comment?

 

Thank you and sorry about that.

trator....

 

I always steer clear of sound clips. To me, it is the same thing as taking a test drive of a BMW M5 from the back seat.

 

There are recording anomolies, and no way to "feel" how the amp responds, which to be is 80% of what makes a great amp.

 

On the song or clip itself, I never considered myself a music critic, so that part for me would be a bit pointless to comment on. When I hear things live, then I make my comments

 

Sorry.

[Bob Mattscheck]

Hey Myles, Thanks for all your info on tubes for my Blue Angel. I just don't want to blow the speaker. Thanks.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Bob Mattscheck:

Hey Myles, Thanks for all your info on tubes for my Blue Angel. I just don't want to blow the speaker. Thanks.

Bob ....

 

First off, you are more than welcome. The Blue Angel is a super amp.

 

On replacing speakers, there are always a ton of options. The Vintage 30 is a great speaker. By the way, they are also killer in Fender Deluxe Reverbs (the did not use the V30 back then because it was not around, otherwise they might have) I prefer it to the Black Shadow, but that is just my taste. Both speakers to me sound better and fuller, with a wider sound stage image in an open back cabinet to my taste. A closed back will give tighter base, especially when driven hard, but with the 38 watt BA, this is not an issue. If the muddy-ness was gone with the closed back, then this is great for your tastes.

 

Alnico speakers sound different than ceramic magnet speakers. Alnico (aluminium, nickel, and cobalt) is a much stronger magnet for the same weight, so that is why ceramic magnets are generally larger. Alnico have different flux focus characteristics (due in part to their smaller size in proximity to the voice coil). One is not better than the other, they are just different. I love Jensen C12N (Ceramic) speakers in most Fender 50 watt or so amps in an open back cabinet as an example.

 

A 15 watt rating is pushing it for your amp. Part of the reason Marshall had closed back cabs with the early 20 watt or so speakers, was to limit their travel so when the hot voice coil was hot, it would not slam and often (and stick) at the end of it's travel. If you play at rational levels and not flat out, and keep Rickenbacker 12 strings with big barking chords out of the mix, you may get away with this.

[Dave da Dude]

Myles,

 

Would YOU consider my amp modern or vintage?

1993 Randall Pro Tube II

 

I know it's pretty recent in manufacturing date, but the impression that I've gotten is that Randall pretty well coasted along with the same design for a while until 1994(?) when they got bought out by Washburn.

 

Would it benefit from NOS Pre-Amp tubes?

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Myles,

 

Would YOU consider my amp modern or vintage?

1993 Randall Pro Tube II

 

I know it's pretty recent in manufacturing date, but the impression that I've gotten is that Randall pretty well coasted along with the same design for a while until 1994(?) when they got bought out by Washburn.

 

Would it benefit from NOS Pre-Amp tubes?

Dave...

 

Your amp to me is MODERN. Then again, to an old 53 year old like me, anything less than 30 years old is sort of modern

 

I break amps down into a few classes .....

 

1. Amps made up until maybe 1960, which includes the low power and mid power tweed amps, tube rectifiers, and lower voltages. These amps also have cathode follower tone circuits (which Marshall later copied in their first amps) which was famous in the tweed bassman. Hit the strings light ... it's darker and mellow. Hit hard, it brightens up. You have more playing touch dynamics that later amps. Fender moved away from this tone stack when the left the tweed era, but Marshall stayed there.

 

2. The amps such as Black Face era Fenders (and even the Brown Tolex Fenders, Plexi era Marshalls, etc.) Amps with solid state rectifiers, more power, and higher voltages.

 

3. The channel switchers and master volume amps. The Mesa Mk II was maybe one of the first in this era.

 

4. Amps made with effects loops, channel switching, and features.

 

Your amp has a moderately high front end gain stage topology. NOS tubes will not show the same degree of change as they would in an older amp from the 1. and 2. era. BUT, the less expensive NOS tubes, such as JAN Philips, RCA, and GE's are more consistant and will last longer, and in many cases sound better while not being much more expensive.

 

That is just my personal take on things, some will agree, some disagree, and we are all right and all wrong I guess.

 

In your amp I like either the new 12AX7C9 (warmer and more linear than most Russian 12AX7's:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1158 You can also get these from Ruby Tubes. Chinese tubes from other vendors are not from this tooling, so beware.

 

In your amp, I use the 12AX7C in V1 with a rating of about 92/100.

 

For NOS, the way to go is:

 

Contact Doug Preston at:

djp@optonline.net He has some great JAN Philips of a great batch of 12AX7's. He has these pretty darn cheap.

 

From Mike over at KCA:

 

NOS JAN GE 12AX7WA----------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS GE 12AX7A------------------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Commercial version with white lettering. 1960s variety and a few ca 1960 long/wide plate version. Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS RFT 12AX7/ECC83 (East Germany)-------------------------------$ 25 each

VERY nice guitar amp tube in this price range. A bit less clean headroom than some of the others. Perfect for Marshalls, Voxes and clones of these amps. Sound nice in Fenders and Fender clones too. Limited supply on hand.

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG 12AX7WA-----------------------------------------$ 17 each

Great guitar amp tubes. I recommend these to everyone. Nice and "fat" sounding, higher gain. Creamy when overdriven.

 

By the way, the above $17 ones are one of my personal favorites.

[jagr82]

Hey Myles I play a Peavey Classic 30 amp and am looking to purchase some nos tubes. Im looking for a high gain tube that is suitable for punk rock. What would you recommend?

[Dave da Dude]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Myles,

 

Would YOU consider my amp modern or vintage?

1993 Randall Pro Tube II

 

I know it's pretty recent in manufacturing date, but the impression that I've gotten is that Randall pretty well coasted along with the same design for a while until 1994(?) when they got bought out by Washburn.

 

Would it benefit from NOS Pre-Amp tubes?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dave...

 

Your amp to me is MODERN. Then again, to an old 53 year old like me, anything less than 30 years old is sort of modern

 

I break amps down into a few classes .....

 

1. Amps made up until maybe 1960, which includes the low power and mid power tweed amps, tube rectifiers, and lower voltages. These amps also have cathode follower tone circuits (which Marshall later copied in their first amps) which was famous in the tweed bassman. Hit the strings light ... it's darker and mellow. Hit hard, it brightens up. You have more playing touch dynamics that later amps. Fender moved away from this tone stack when the left the tweed era, but Marshall stayed there.

 

2. The amps such as Black Face era Fenders (and even the Brown Tolex Fenders, Plexi era Marshalls, etc.) Amps with solid state rectifiers, more power, and higher voltages.

 

3. The channel switchers and master volume amps. The Mesa Mk II was maybe one of the first in this era.

 

4. Amps made with effects loops, channel switching, and features.

 

Your amp has a moderately high front end gain stage topology. NOS tubes will not show the same degree of change as they would in an older amp from the 1. and 2. era. BUT, the less expensive NOS tubes, such as JAN Philips, RCA, and GE's are more consistant and will last longer, and in many cases sound better while not being much more expensive.

 

That is just my personal take on things, some will agree, some disagree, and we are all right and all wrong I guess.

 

In your amp I like either the new 12AX7C9 (warmer and more linear than most Russian 12AX7's:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1158 You can also get these from Ruby Tubes. Chinese tubes from other vendors are not from this tooling, so beware.

 

In your amp, I use the 12AX7C in V1 with a rating of about 92/100.

 

For NOS, the way to go is:

 

Contact Doug Preston at:

djp@optonline.net He has some great JAN Philips of a great batch of 12AX7's. He has these pretty darn cheap.

 

From Mike over at KCA:

 

NOS JAN GE 12AX7WA----------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS GE 12AX7A------------------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Commercial version with white lettering. 1960s variety and a few ca 1960 long/wide plate version. Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS RFT 12AX7/ECC83 (East Germany)-------------------------------$ 25 each

VERY nice guitar amp tube in this price range. A bit less clean headroom than some of the others. Perfect for Marshalls, Voxes and clones of these amps. Sound nice in Fenders and Fender clones too. Limited supply on hand.

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG 12AX7WA-----------------------------------------$ 17 each

Great guitar amp tubes. I recommend these to everyone. Nice and "fat" sounding, higher gain. Creamy when overdriven.

 

By the way, the above $17 ones are one of my personal favorites.

 

--------------------

Myles S. Rose

 

Myles,

 

Thanks for the GREAT (as usual) info. And here I thought my amp was an ugly off brand (for non metal) dog that no one knew anything about. I'm STILL trying to get the schematic from Randall. They've been very cooperative, but it keepst getting snail mailed into Never Never Land.

 

Strangely enough one of the tubes (the RFT) was one I was VERY seriously considering from it's Watford's subjective description (".. definetly for rockers, etc .."). Watford also has a "limited" stock. Maybe I should buy a few?

 

As for the GE or Phillips, is there a separate tube for "Clean" and "Dirty" channel in my amp? I think my Nirvana would be the RFT in the "Dirty" channel and a nice clean one (probably your selection) in the "Clean" channel.

 

What do you think?

 

BTW, re: the vintage / modern thing and age; I agree with you (just thought the Randall might be an outdated "Vintage" design) and have you beat by four years (grey beard and all).

 

Dave

[dave251]

Myles- I just ordered a Fender Blues Junior. I tried this thing in a shop yesterday and was blown away by the "clean" side of the amp....I don't know what this thing is all about, but I intend to find out, as this is the best Fender amp I've ever plugged my electroCoustic into....

Uses a pair of 12AX7's and and pair of EL84's. Can you recommend replacements for the stock tubes that will give me more clean gain(it was pretty good to start with). From reading your posts and articles, I feel like I should have you send me a "balanced" 12ax7(or maybe a 12AT7?) for the driver stage....at least.

 

I do want to figure out the "point" at which the "tone" control centers....the amp sounds a bit boxy but it may just be the speaker/box combo that makes it this way.

 

I've been looking at "modern" small amp designs for adaptability for my purposes...this one is as close as I've heard.

 

Dave

[garyrogue]

HI Myles, Thank you for all the info. at HC and here. I have a few questions. What tests, using Hickok 752 tube tester, can be done to approximate your tube rating? I would like to establish some base lines for tubes I have that I will place into a Maz-18 jr and DrZ 6545 (as well as pulled tubes). I have some NOS Mullard AX7s, AT7s and AU7s. I have a friend who is an electronic repair person, he uncovered this tester and can use it, after I started to talk to him about tubes.

 

In anticipation of getting the DrZ 6545, a two channel head I picked up two NOS Siemens 6CA7s. The 6545 is a combination of a KT-45 (V-1 EF-86, V-2 AX7) and a Z-65 (V-1, V-2 a AX7) sharing a dual EL-34 power section. But talking to Z (after I got Siemens tubes) he said just use GT EL-34s, 6 rating, no biasing ever required. Written on Siemens tube boxes is 34.0 and 34.3. Can I test these to see if they would be equivalent to a GT #6 rating? Or just sell them to forget rebiasing issues.

 

One other thing, do we need to wipe off tubes with alcohol after handling with hands?

 

I do get do Southern Cal occasionally to visit relatives or see Steve Morse at San Juan Coach house. But may be a while now after amp purchases, But if if timing works out I will try to visit your shop or a clinic.

 

Thanks Gary

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

Myles,

 

Would YOU consider my amp modern or vintage?

1993 Randall Pro Tube II

 

I know it's pretty recent in manufacturing date, but the impression that I've gotten is that Randall pretty well coasted along with the same design for a while until 1994(?) when they got bought out by Washburn.

 

Would it benefit from NOS Pre-Amp tubes?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dave...

 

Your amp to me is MODERN. Then again, to an old 53 year old like me, anything less than 30 years old is sort of modern

 

I break amps down into a few classes .....

 

1. Amps made up until maybe 1960, which includes the low power and mid power tweed amps, tube rectifiers, and lower voltages. These amps also have cathode follower tone circuits (which Marshall later copied in their first amps) which was famous in the tweed bassman. Hit the strings light ... it's darker and mellow. Hit hard, it brightens up. You have more playing touch dynamics that later amps. Fender moved away from this tone stack when the left the tweed era, but Marshall stayed there.

 

2. The amps such as Black Face era Fenders (and even the Brown Tolex Fenders, Plexi era Marshalls, etc.) Amps with solid state rectifiers, more power, and higher voltages.

 

3. The channel switchers and master volume amps. The Mesa Mk II was maybe one of the first in this era.

 

4. Amps made with effects loops, channel switching, and features.

 

Your amp has a moderately high front end gain stage topology. NOS tubes will not show the same degree of change as they would in an older amp from the 1. and 2. era. BUT, the less expensive NOS tubes, such as JAN Philips, RCA, and GE's are more consistant and will last longer, and in many cases sound better while not being much more expensive.

 

That is just my personal take on things, some will agree, some disagree, and we are all right and all wrong I guess.

 

In your amp I like either the new 12AX7C9 (warmer and more linear than most Russian 12AX7's:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1158 You can also get these from Ruby Tubes. Chinese tubes from other vendors are not from this tooling, so beware.

 

In your amp, I use the 12AX7C in V1 with a rating of about 92/100.

 

For NOS, the way to go is:

 

Contact Doug Preston at:

djp@optonline.net He has some great JAN Philips of a great batch of 12AX7's. He has these pretty darn cheap.

 

From Mike over at KCA:

 

NOS JAN GE 12AX7WA----------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS GE 12AX7A------------------------------------------------------------$ 30 each

Commercial version with white lettering. 1960s variety and a few ca 1960 long/wide plate version. Great guitar amp and audiophile tube. Very sweet sounding with a smooth top end. Very low in microphonics and noise.

 

NOS RFT 12AX7/ECC83 (East Germany)-------------------------------$ 25 each

VERY nice guitar amp tube in this price range. A bit less clean headroom than some of the others. Perfect for Marshalls, Voxes and clones of these amps. Sound nice in Fenders and Fender clones too. Limited supply on hand.

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG 12AX7WA-----------------------------------------$ 17 each

Great guitar amp tubes. I recommend these to everyone. Nice and "fat" sounding, higher gain. Creamy when overdriven.

 

By the way, the above $17 ones are one of my personal favorites.

 

--------------------

Myles S. Rose

 

Myles,

 

Thanks for the GREAT (as usual) info. And here I thought my amp was an ugly off brand (for non metal) dog that no one knew anything about. I'm STILL trying to get the schematic from Randall. They've been very cooperative, but it keepst getting snail mailed into Never Never Land.

 

Strangely enough one of the tubes (the RFT) was one I was VERY seriously considering from it's Watford's subjective description (".. definetly for rockers, etc .."). Watford also has a "limited" stock. Maybe I should buy a few?

 

As for the GE or Phillips, is there a separate tube for "Clean" and "Dirty" channel in my amp? I think my Nirvana would be the RFT in the "Dirty" channel and a nice clean one (probably your selection) in the "Clean" channel.

 

What do you think?

 

BTW, re: the vintage / modern thing and age; I agree with you (just thought the Randall might be an outdated "Vintage" design) and have you beat by four years (grey beard and all).

 

Dave

Dave .... HEY! I have grey in my beard too!

 

In your amp, V1 feeds the others, even when used for additional gain stages, so it is still a matter of V1 being the tube for 80% of your initial tone and gain.

 

The GE's and Philips are very close. It would almost be a matter of price at this point. They are both very good tubes and very close to standards, much closer than untested new preamp tubes today.

 

Actually, your amp is anything but an "off brand", and I have four clients, maybe three actually, that use these. They hold up pretty darn nicely in touring situations.

 

On the RFT's .... maybe ask some folks for some feedback. Some think they have something of an ECC83 character (like in the Marshall 900 and earlier amps). This is when things get down to personal preference.

 

Good luck.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by jagr82:

Hey Myles I play a Peavey Classic 30 amp and am looking to purchase some nos tubes. Im looking for a high gain tube that is suitable for punk rock. What would you recommend?

jagr82 .....

 

Classic 30's ... fun amps, and a great amp for the money. I have a LOT of clients with these, and you would not believe how many folks out on tour are using these.

 

NOS tubes are nice in these, but the gain structure and design of these work really nicely with a few new tubes also.

 

Most of my clients us the JJ EL-84 in these in a #5 or #6 rating (if you use the GT ones), or you can also get a great set of these really really really cheap from one of my secret suppliers, Doug Preston. You can email Doug at:

djp@optonline.net

 

Doug is sort of a secret that has a lot of cool stuff at some pretty stupid prices as he just sort of helps out guitar players, but his big deal is high end audio (but is also a pretty good player to boot).

 

Doug also is where I send a lot of folks for KT-66's by the way.

 

He would have some great EL-84's. He also has some great preamp tubes of all sorts.

 

On the NOS EL-84 front ....

 

Mike at www.kcanostubes.com has some great stuff, but it is more pricy:

 

From some of his current stock:

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG (Emporium PA)-------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

Great sounding in guitar amps! Very few remaining in stock.-------------------$ 160 Per matched quartet

Supply is running out on these with no known source for future replacement.

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Marshall 18 watt, Matchless, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

 

NOS GE 6BQ5/EL84----------------------------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

------------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 150 Per matched quartet

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Matchless, Marshall 18 watt, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

Sweet sounding in guitar and audiophile amps. Some in original GE boxes, some labeled and boxed as Admiral.

 

NOS RCA 6BQ5/EL84-------------------------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

No quartets in stock.

Great in hi-fi gear and guitar amps when maximum clean headroom is desired.

 

7189A

NOS RCA 7189A-------------------------------------------------------$ 100 Per matched pair

 

Hope this was of some help

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by jagr82:

Hey Myles I play a Peavey Classic 30 amp and am looking to purchase some nos tubes. Im looking for a high gain tube that is suitable for punk rock. What would you recommend?

jagr82 .....

 

Classic 30's ... fun amps, and a great amp for the money. I have a LOT of clients with these, and you would not believe how many folks out on tour are using these.

 

NOS tubes are nice in these, but the gain structure and design of these work really nicely with a few new tubes also.

 

Most of my clients us the JJ EL-84 in these in a #5 or #6 rating (if you use the GT ones), or you can also get a great set of these really really really cheap from one of my secret suppliers, Doug Preston. You can email Doug at:

djp@optonline.net

 

Doug is sort of a secret that has a lot of cool stuff at some pretty stupid prices as he just sort of helps out guitar players, but his big deal is high end audio (but is also a pretty good player to boot).

 

Doug also is where I send a lot of folks for KT-66's by the way.

 

He would have some great EL-84's. He also has some great preamp tubes of all sorts.

 

On the NOS EL-84 front ....

 

Mike at www.kcanostubes.com has some great stuff, but it is more pricy:

 

From some of his current stock:

 

NOS JAN Philips ECG (Emporium PA)-------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

Great sounding in guitar amps! Very few remaining in stock.-------------------$ 160 Per matched quartet

Supply is running out on these with no known source for future replacement.

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Marshall 18 watt, Matchless, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

 

NOS GE 6BQ5/EL84----------------------------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

------------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 150 Per matched quartet

Excellent in your Blues Jr., Matchless, Marshall 18 watt, Vox AC-30, AC-15 or Dr. Z amp.

Sweet sounding in guitar and audiophile amps. Some in original GE boxes, some labeled and boxed as Admiral.

 

NOS RCA 6BQ5/EL84-------------------------------------------------$ 75 Per matched pair

No quartets in stock.

Great in hi-fi gear and guitar amps when maximum clean headroom is desired.

 

7189A

NOS RCA 7189A-------------------------------------------------------$ 100 Per matched pair

 

I have a "new" EL-84 tube that is coming on the market, that may be of promise. I have some of these in the field now, and am setting up two more amps with these for more tests ... One is a Peavey amp like yours with the 2x10's and one is a Budda.

 

I will let folks know more when I do.

 

Hope this was of some help

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by dave251:

Myles- I just ordered a Fender Blues Junior. I tried this thing in a shop yesterday and was blown away by the "clean" side of the amp....I don't know what this thing is all about, but I intend to find out, as this is the best Fender amp I've ever plugged my electroCoustic into....

Uses a pair of 12AX7's and and pair of EL84's. Can you recommend replacements for the stock tubes that will give me more clean gain(it was pretty good to start with). From reading your posts and articles, I feel like I should have you send me a "balanced" 12ax7(or maybe a 12AT7?) for the driver stage....at least.

 

I do want to figure out the "point" at which the "tone" control centers....the amp sounds a bit boxy but it may just be the speaker/box combo that makes it this way.

 

I've been looking at "modern" small amp designs for adaptability for my purposes...this one is as close as I've heard.

 

Dave

Dave,

 

I just answered sort of a similar post ... EL-84's, which should be right above this one maybe.

 

Your amp comes with Sovtek EL-84's that are dark and muffeled.

 

Replace those with EL-84S's in a #6 rating.

 

On v1, get rid of the stock Sovtek 12AX7WA ... no gain, no articulation.

 

Go with either a 12AX7C9:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1158

 

Or a 12AX7R3:

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1586

 

I personally like the C9 better, as it is a warmer tube that is better for rock, blues, and jazz, and frankly, would sound more to my tastes with your guitars

 

By the way, if you get one of these off the GT website, make a note in the comment section to show me the order and I will hand trace one for you and spec it out.

 

On the phase inverter, the AT7 will give less gain but more clean headroom. In either case, AX7 or AT7, I always use MPI's.

 

Hope that helped

 

I am still in line for one of your amps !

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by garyrogue:

HI Myles, Thank you for all the info. at HC and here. I have a few questions. What tests, using Hickok 752 tube tester, can be done to approximate your tube rating? I would like to establish some base lines for tubes I have that I will place into a Maz-18 jr and DrZ 6545 (as well as pulled tubes). I have some NOS Mullard AX7s, AT7s and AU7s. I have a friend who is an electronic repair person, he uncovered this tester and can use it, after I started to talk to him about tubes.

 

In anticipation of getting the DrZ 6545, a two channel head I picked up two NOS Siemens 6CA7s. The 6545 is a combination of a KT-45 (V-1 EF-86, V-2 AX7) and a Z-65 (V-1, V-2 a AX7) sharing a dual EL-34 power section. But talking to Z (after I got Siemens tubes) he said just use GT EL-34s, 6 rating, no biasing ever required. Written on Siemens tube boxes is 34.0 and 34.3. Can I test these to see if they would be equivalent to a GT #6 rating? Or just sell them to forget rebiasing issues.

 

One other thing, do we need to wipe off tubes with alcohol after handling with hands?

 

I do get do Southern Cal occasionally to visit relatives or see Steve Morse at San Juan Coach house. But may be a while now after amp purchases, But if if timing works out I will try to visit your shop or a clinic.

 

Thanks Gary

Gary,

 

It is very hard to use the older type testers to come up with the same rating system as most of them are mutual transconductance testers. The have a "good-bad" scale, or even most of the better ones have their own numbers.

 

If you tester can provide 250 volts on the plates of a 12AX7 as an example, and a -2 volt bias, and can display output in milliamps, than we can go from there.

 

A lot of folks talk "gain", and gain is not the same thing as output. You can have lots of gain, but the tube might not have any decent output (as in most cases today), so in complex front ends, they just don't cut it.

 

If you can get "output" one part of the SAG (Special Applications Group) scale ( see: http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1773 for a bit of explanation ) can be used. I have sort of a conversion chart on my website at:

 

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/12ax7.html

 

If you are just establishing your own baseline and not trying to convey this data to others, and for your own amps, then just look at your testers numbers. Then if you want more or less output in general, you can just try to match up or down from what you have. My SAG department also measures for rise time and the curves of the tubes, which is hard without something like a Tek 570. This is where we get into having more compression for blues players, and less, with a very fast rise time, for speed metal players. In the metal folks, we also get into how much more or less pick attack noise they want in the sound too. It can get pretty complex and time consuming.

 

The 6CA7 is a MUCH better, or should I say different tube than an EL-34. It has a higher vacuum, more of everything, and an active beam forming element that is not in any EL-34. It is a GREAT tube in the Dr. Z. amp.

 

On the EF-86, current examples will limit your amps performance. Be sure to only get these from Dr. Z., as he screens them. You can also go the NOS route, as every, and I mean EVERY NOS 6267/EF-86 I have tested are terrific, and last a long time.

 

The best of these are at http://www.kcanostubes.com and the ones I like off their current offerings are any he has:

 

NOS Telefunken EF86s------------------------------------------------------$ 85 Each

<> bottoms. Made in Germany. Date coded 1966 (one is 1970). Original industrial boxes. 10 in stock. Perfect for your Matchless, AC15 or other guitar amp. Also excellent in audiophile amps.

 

NOS GEC CV4085/EF86-----------------------------------------------------$ 65

Top of the line military grade EF86 from GEC, England. From the same company that produced ALL British KT66s and KT88s (GEC, Genelex, Gold Lion, etc). Tight mesh plates. Original GEC stickers on tubes in immaculate condition. Original military boxes, pin protectors and corrugated wrapping. Very rare.

 

NOS AMPEREX --------------------------------------------------------------$ 45

Made in Holland with mesh plates.

 

NOS Amperex EF86s

3- Bugle Boys. Made in Holland. Original boxes. ----------------------------------$75 each

1- Bugle Boy. Made in Holland with worn logo with original box -------------------$65

2- Made in Germany (NOT Telefunken). Original Boxes.-------------------------- $45 Each

2- Bugle Boys. Made in Britain (Mullard Blackburn). Original boxes.--------------- $75 Each

 

NOS Mullard EF86------------------------------------------------------------$ 50

Made in Great Britain in the 1960s. Mesh plates, shield logo, industrial red/black/white boxes with corrugated internal wrapping. Excellent pick for your Vox type amp, Dr Z, Matchless, etc.

 

NOS Siemens EF86-----------------------------------------------------------$ 40

Made in Germany.

 

NOS Philips EF86--------------------------------------------------------------$ 42

Same as the Amperex above but marked by Mullard's/Amperex's parent company, Philips. Made in Holland.

 

NOS Miniwatt EF86-----------------------------------------------------------$ 42

Made in Holland, mesh plates.

 

NOS Valvo EF86---------------------------------------------------------------$ 42

Made in Germany, mesh plates.

 

NOS AMPEREX but labeled and boxed as Sylvania----------------------$ 40

Made in Holland with mesh plates.

 

My favorite EL-34 tube in the Dr. Z amps that use these are also the GT E34Ls, which has a plate structure that is off GT tooling in that factory, with more mass and heat sinks on the plates. It is a 30 watt tube, rather than 25 watts as all other EL-34 tubes. A #6 is terrific in Dr. Z's amps. It is stronger than most 6CA7's. It is the tube used by Slash, Billy Gibbons, Joe Walsh (he has a LOT of Dr. Z amps by the way), Joe Perry, Matchless and Bad Cat too.

 

Dr. Z's feelings are something I'd listen to, as they are his amps, but he also has great ears to boot. I am currently supporting 18 of his amps on tours, and by staying with his tube selections, we have had NO downtime on 7 different tours with 18 of his amps. I guess it also does not hurt that his amps are built the way they are either

 

By the way .... Fender Twin Reverbs on the country scene and in Nashville "used" to be "THE" standard. You would not believe, that for such high output amps like even the Z 18 watters, how many of these Dr. Z. amps are standard stage and studio fare in Nashville! They are sort of becomming the 21st century standard or something. Matchless / Bad Cat are in the fray too, but it seems to be Dr. Z, maybe four to one in the Class A amps ... and the class A's are starting to take over the class A/B arena.

 

You can touch tubes all you want. I think somebody once read this off a halogen bulb box or something and applied it to tubes or something. Do you clean a light bulb when you change it? I don't. No problems, at least for me, with fingerprints on tubes.

 

If you are ever in my area, feel free to drop me a line. For folks from this forum, my doors are always open to a free amp check up.