LiveMusic Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 I don't understand something. I have been to several online lyric/tab sites and they show a page that says that due to threats from lawsuits from major music industry giants, they are no longer online. And then I find several sites that are none the worse for wear. OLGA, OnLine Guitar Archives, is still going. There are many others. What gives? I mean, I understand why they might be attacked, but how does one like OLGA stay up? There used to be one called "nutz" and it's gone. These sites are invaluable. I hope they stay around. ------------------ Duke > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 OLGA has already been through the legal wringer, and was shut down for awhile. I don't know all the details, but somehow they worked it out so they could reopen and are all legal now. I presume it's because they're paying their ASCAP and BMI royalties per download. Anyway, I don't know about other sites but I don't think you have to worry about OLGA going away, nobody is bothering them anymore. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMusic Posted October 3, 2001 Author Share Posted October 3, 2001 Thanks, Lee. What is ASCAP and BMI? I've heard of these groups for years but I really don't know. You say they may be paying per download. Would this go to the songwriters or the group who recorded the song? ------------------ Duke > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 Duke, Actually I just checked out OLGA and apparently their legal battle isn't over yet, what they did is they incorporated, and are taking donations to launch a legal campaign to be able to host "by-ear transcriptions". Meanwhile they have certain guidelines for contributing tablature and chords which supposedly won't get them in trouble for copyright violations. Interesting. Anyway, in a nutshell ASCAP and BMI are the organizations (called performing rights societies) that pay out royalties to songwriters. ASCAP was the first one, having been launched by friends of the folk songwriter Stephen Foster. Foster's friends were outraged that although he'd written songs that were covered the world over by many different artists, he died penniless. They formed ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers) which launched a campaign to change the laws so that anybody who performs a song professionally is obligated to pay a royalty to the composer. That's why nowadays, songwriters make so much more money than performers. Any time for example a Lennon-McCartney tune is played on the radio, regardless of whether it's the Beatles' version of the song or somebody else's cover, the composers get a royalty. Ditto if the song is played on a jukebox, or performed as part of a major act's live set. George and Ringo don't get a royalty, and neither do John and Paul as members of the Beatles, only as the composers of the song. The best a non-composing band member can hope for is that the radio play stimulates record sales and concert ticket sales, which they do profit from. Smaller club gigs like those played by cover bands are a little trickier. Most cover bands who play in small clubs don't keep track of which songs they play every night, but in theory, they owe ASCAP and BMI royalties. This problem was "resolved" by requiring club owners to pay a blanket royalty if they offer live music or a DJ. The trouble is how those blanket royalties are paid out: because nobody is keeping track of which actual songs are played, the royalties are doled out based on percentage of sales - which means they go to composers who are already big sellers and whose songs you may not even be covering. You may be playing an Iggy Pop song at a club and whoever wrote Britney Spears' latest hit may be collecting the money. It's almost a guarantee Iggy won't be seeing any of it! This is pretty lame but nobody has really figured out any fair way to handle it, so that's the way it is. --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-03-2001 at 02:27 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMusic Posted October 3, 2001 Author Share Posted October 3, 2001 Wow, Lee, good answer! So, local clubs are paying a royalty for playing music? Do they pay monthly or what? Any idea how that fee is computed? Like, cents per song or whatever. If you have 100 customers or 1,000 customers, is it the same? ------------------ Duke > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 Royalties are paid out on a quarterly basis so far as I know. That's how they are paid out to members anyhow, so I assume those who are paying the licensing fees also pay quarterly. As for how the royalties are computed, it's complicated. The size of the club does factor in there; the club has an individual licensing agreement with the performing rights societies which they compute for that particular club. For more info than you probably ever wanted about how they figure this out, here's ASCAP's description: http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/paymentintro.html The various links there will tell you how that all works. --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-03-2001 at 04:33 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 Um Lee, two corrections. 1 John gave George and Ringo 1% each of Lennon/McCartney tunes so they did actually gain profit from those Beatle tunes at one time. 2 Right now, Jack-O owns those songs. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 < i've heard that Olga will do it any way you want as long as you pay her enough money.... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMusic Posted October 4, 2001 Author Share Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by DC: Right now, Jack-O owns those songs. Does that mean Michael Jackson? Didn't he buy them? How did it happen that he got them? I forget. ------------------ Duke > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: < i've heard that Olga will do it any way you want as long as you pay her enough money.... -d. gauss DAMN IT...you beat me to it, d... Some friends of my son's swear by www.tabcrawler.com Might give 'em a try, too. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudyba Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 Ughh OLGA...I cringe every time I read/hear about them. People keep it alive by simply mirroring (illegally) all of the files on different servers around the world. The links to songs (from around the Net) always seem out of date and many times broken and the TABS themselves are atrocious. I have yet to find one that is even 95% correct! Always incorrect chord voicings...plenty of missed chords too... Oh and a couple of years ago, the a few exemptions were made on a certain type of establishment not having to pay for a yearly blanket performing rights society license. Check out THIS PDF or THIS briefing on ASCAP.com. Exemption Restaurants under 3,750 gross square feet (not counting the parking lot) will be exempt from paying royalties on radio and television music only. Restaurants over 3,750 gross square feet (not counting the parking lot) may also be exempt: 1. if they play no more than four televisions, each measuring up to 55 diagonally (no more than one per room), with no more than six speakers total, and with no more than four speakers per room, or 2. if they play radios that have no more than six speakers total, with no more than four speakers per room. For restaurants to be eligible for the exemption, they must not charge a cover fee to see the television or listen to the radio. Related Exemption Retailers also receive an exemption under the new law. Retailers under 2,000 gross square feet (not counting the parking lot) are exempt; retailers over 2,000 gross square feet (not counting the parking lot) will receive the same equipment exemption as restaurant owners (see above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by DC: Um Lee, two corrections. 1 John gave George and Ringo 1% each of Lennon/McCartney tunes so they did actually gain profit from those Beatle tunes at one time. 2 Right now, Jack-O owns those songs. Sheesh... I know that actually, I was just using that as an example! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm sure Duke was already getting more information than he asked for! Besides, I keep trying to block it out of my mind that MJ owns the Beatles catalog, and you had to go and remind me! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --LEe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 Actually, Michael Jackson owns the publishing rights. He can choose who gets them and for what purpose, and yes, he's making a mint on them. Lennon's estate and McCartney are paid writer's royalties to this day. They didn't stay incredibly rich from the royalties paid out in the 1960's. They're still getting some of the money. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submersible Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Anyway, in a nutshell ASCAP and BMI are the organizations (called performing rights societies) that pay out royalties to songwriters. I'm pretty sure performance rights have nothing to do with the legal action against OLGA. It was the Harry Fox Agency that was pissed off (they administer royalties for reproduction of music, including sheet music.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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