dansouth Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 What do you look for in a drummer and a bassist (and a percussionist if your music needs one)? What kind of drummer or bassist drives you nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 My ideal rhythm section would be the kinda thing Joe Cocker had on "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"...the whole band...horns, piano, backup singers...not to mention the bassist and drummer. Seems like it might have been Jim Keltner and the late Carl Radle on that. But, anything like that...just plain pocket people. Folks who dig deep into the groove...not too many notes or fills, just when the tune calls for a bit of spice. The worst rhythm section for me would be people who are trying to be Geddy Lee and Neil Peart, or a Keith Moon wannabe on drums. Moon pulled it off, 'cause he was Moon. I haven't heard too many people do that without sucking completely, though. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 I like drummers who tend to almost over-play. I like a lot of fills and syncopated beats... but not at the expense of timing, you have to be a human clock! George Hurley is the MAN on drums! Some of my other favs... Stewart Copeland, Tim Alexander, and of course Moon, Peart, and Bonzo. I think bass players should be pretty active too... I hate those guys that hide in the background, riding the root note. But, I don't like slapping and popping either. There has to be a happy medium... where the bass line is interesting, but not overbearing. Originally posted by Tedster: The worst rhythm section for me would be people who are trying to be Geddy Lee and Neil Peart You know, I used to play bass in a band with a drummer named Robb. He pretty much fit the description I gave above. Seemed like whenever we played, I'd hear somebody saying that we were "Rush wannabes" or that we were "trying to be Lee and Peart". It really pissed me off, because we weren't trying to be anybody... that just happens to be the way we play! Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 <> in time, on time, in tune, interlocked, encylopedic, enthusiastic, and inexpensive.... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 >>>You know, I used to play bass in a band with a drummer named Robb. He pretty much fit the description I gave above. Seemed like whenever we played, I'd hear somebody saying that we were "Rush wannabes" or that we were "trying to be Lee and Peart". It really pissed me off, because we weren't trying to be anybody... that just happens to be the way we play! Well, let me qualify, Scott, by saying that Rush works for Rush...the prog rock thing...but it has to vary to fit the style of music. It wouldn't work for me, that's all... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 LOL right on d gauss! That about sums it up... Well, I hate to keep bragging but I can't help it: my ideal rhythm section is the guys I'm playing with now! Just got done with rehearsal in fact, and I won't be able to wipe the shit eatin' grin off my face for hours. We just have too much fun! So what do they sound like? Hmm well... the bass player is a McCartney freak, big time, which would've been a requirement for me! And he totally digs Entwistle too but isn't quite as "busy". He's very solid but also melodic and inventive. Knows what to play when. Does great walking lines. Pretty much just rocks. Sings great too. Our drummer, eeeerrrhhh... I would run out of hyperboles if I attempted to describe him and how completely and insanely nuts about him I am. He's encyclopedic all right - we have yet to come across anything he can't play. He's got chops for days that he can use with great subtlety OR non-subtlety depending what the situation calls for! And his enthusiasm and feel are just downright infectious. 'Course the thing that really does it for me is he's got that old school Brit-rock thing that all the drummers in the 60's had, the ones who'd first cut their teeth on traditional jazz (which our drummer did also). But then he gives it a whole extra kick up the ass that sends it into overdrive. And funny that you should mention the Keith Moon thing Ted, and how few drummers can really cop him. Last night, there was a cancellation at one of our top local clubs, so our bass player and another friend of mine put together a Who tribute set at the last minute, with the drummer from another local band. It was really cool cuz all of them are Who freaks and know the stuff quite well. But everyone was going on about how great the drummer was - and he is, in a way. I mean he's definitely got the attitude and beats the crap out of the kit and can pull off all the chops. But the thing is... nobody associates Keith Moon with finesse, but he HAD finesse. He had a GROOVE, improbable as it was. He wasn't just a basher. He had dynamics and this sort of shimmering groove that rode over the top of everything, an amazing feel all his own. And this drummer who played last night, he's really good but he doesn't have THAT. And that is why hardly anyone can pull off doing a Moon impersonation. BUT... Our drummer can pull it off. I was just telling him that today actually, because I REALLY notice the difference now when I hear somebody else try. Not that he does that on every song... but the thing is that he CAN do it, and do it right. And all those little unquantifiable "feel" things that it takes to really make drumming magic, he gets those right. Oh yeah, and he can sing a perfect high harmony at the same time. And yes, he CAN play like Peart if you put a gun to his head, but he never does. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif With all the great drummers he digs, and can cop, the bottom line is he loves Ringo. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Ya gotta love a guy like that. At least I do! --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 09-09-2001 at 09:51 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Lee, I think the thing about Moon is that a lot of drummers in the past have used that as an excuse to overplay. But when I listen to Moon, true, the myriad fills are there, but in their proper place. Something about Moon's drumming was, I dunno, "symphonic" is the word that comes to mind. Really stands out on Quadrophenia and Who's Next (not to mention Tommy)...his drumming was a perfect complement to Pete's songwriting, which tended to be a bit symphonic, too. Which is part of the difference. Some drummers put that stuff where it doesn't belong at all, and then it just sounds like crap. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 LOL yeah I agree Ted, a LOT of drummers use Moon as an excuse to overplay (ditto Peart et al). But then to top it all off they can't execute it right and it just sounds really lame. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Knowing what is appropriate to play when, is a huge part of what makes a great drummer IMO. Sometimes a particular song or portion of a song does call for going really over the top, and then it's a drag when you have a drummer who is understated all the time and can't execute that. But then it's also very annoying to have a drummer with incredible chops who just HAS to show them off all the time, and overplays all over everything. A drummer that can be either simple OR over the top on a dime, and have great feel and passion throughout, is magic. And I guess the same can be said for us guitar players, eh? --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 me on guitar, a piano player with a B3, bassist, and drummer......and a rippin blues sanger.......we don't need no stinkin singers!!!! : ) I just want a bassist and drummer who lock in the groove together, with a pianist/organist who does tasteful fills and coloration without being obtrusive....of course with the guitarist doing the same..... quite rare....but I've had that magic before..... This message has been edited by strat0124 on 09-10-2001 at 04:24 PM Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 Don't like drummers who speed up tempo or bassists who overplay, unconcious of what the other players are doing or what the song needs. What I look for most is TONE. I've been lucky enough to work with some very talented players and the best ones always seemed to have the combined element of great chops and good tone. It seems like if a guy can't figure out how to make his instrument sound good then he doesn't play that well either. One of my favorite and ideal all around bassist/drummer teams were John Gustafson and Paul Thompson (Roxy Music-3rd, 4rth, and 5th albums) They were rock solid, in the pocket, with GREAT tone. From the simplest to the most intense phrasings. A world class team.Listen to some things off"Siren"..... Other guys who could pass my audition (in my dreams...) Entwhistle/Moon McCartney/Starr Ron Wood/Mickey Waller (on Beck's "Truth" album) Jack Bruce/Ginger Baker Of course it would depend upon the type of music,too. This message has been edited by lynx on 09-16-2001 at 04:05 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj3 Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Keltner and Hutch Hutchinson would make a nifty combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Oh, I'VE GOT IT...my ideal rhythm section... Any of the rhythm sections that Santana has used. Can't get much more kickass than that...timbales...congas...drums...man... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Ok, let's try this as a diversion: Lee and Peart. Very odd, the only to describe them. Lee must have liked Squire and John Paul Jones, Peart every fusion drummer around. Hmm. I've never heard anyone really, truly nail their vibe. It's a very subtle thing; mischaracterized as sterile I think. Seems to be a slightly careening tendency between 1 and 2, that's where they're loose, which is odd. Perfectly in the pocket with each other, but stressing peculiar accents. Tend to play a slight hair slower than one might expect tempo-wise. There's something odd that is a big influence on both of them that alters how they percieve "groove", because I think they definitely do but in a very different (and unique) way. I don't know what it is. I surmise that it's probably 1 or two songs by someone they both really, really loved a lot that has a odd feel to it, and somehow that's the root of all their old stuff. Maybe someone they've both perceived wrongly, perhaps. It would seem as they get older, and talk more of getting "better" and more "mature" as musicians, they lose more of their old vibe. Peart does sound more traditional now. I don't think that's a good thing. I miss bands that had a unique sound and vibe. That was such an attraction to music in the 70's; each band had not only a unique sound, but a unique *vibe*. Drew one in. You didn't know what the new Rush was going to sound like, the new VanHalen, Pink Floyd, whatever. Now days, the push is apparently to up the gimmick factor of a *sound*, and deemphasize the *vibe*. Metallica had a great sound *and* vibe. They've now gimmicked up their sound, and the vibe is out the window. What's with that? Soundgarden was cool, but they're gone now. Cobain.. About the only new act left that has both a sound and vibe is Reznor. What's he doing lately? Everything is Back in Black now. Make something great, then do it again, and again, and again. The more gimmickry to the sound, the better: Korn, Limp, etc... low>high, screech>growl, soft/loud... but we all know that, this was redundant. Trying. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Hmmm, on bass, I want someone who is totally melody oriented, outstanding chops and leaves silence everywhere. Think McCartney, Bruce ? (the guy from The Attractions, Elvis C's first band), Colin Molding (XTC) or even Nick Lowe. Who played bass on 'Mind Games?' He was outstanding. A guy like Entwhistle is almost too much, altho if you hear him play by himself, your jaw will definately hit the floor. He needed to play like that to fill up the sound cos Pete played mostly basic rhythm style IMO. Ent played lead. On drums, I want a former jazz guy who evolved into a backbeat drummer, yeah Ringo, okay?! Hey Lee, can your drummer ride hi hat with either hand and do that right hand wrist facing straight up, slicing 16th note hi hat thing that most drummers I know have to use two hands on? Other than that, someone who adds relentless excitement and gives everyone adrenaline. Some guys who blew me away live when I wasn't expecting it were; Pat Benatar's drummer, Terry Williams (Rockpile and later Dire Straits), Alan White and even that mean assed mo fo; Buddy Rich. But I still agree that Mr. Starky is the best R ~N~ R drummer in the world! -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimco_dup1 Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 James Jamerson and Bernard Purdie would have been a nice combo . How about just using Booker T. & the Mgs ( they put the groove down on more than a few tunes ) . Jim Keltner has to be a favorite of mine match him with any groovin' bass player and it usually sounds special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Sly & Robbie Omar Hakim & Jaco (can I also have Joe Zavinul, pretty please?) Marcus Miller + any drummer of his choice The Meters Any second-line marching band tribe from New Orleans Taj Mahals rythm section circa 1992 Professor Longhair (an upright piano player that kicked the rythm on the instrument with his feet!) /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Originally posted by DC: Hmmm, on bass, I want someone who is totally melody oriented, outstanding chops and leaves silence everywhere. Think McCartney, Bruce ? (the guy from The Attractions, Elvis C's first band), Colin Molding (XTC) or even Nick Lowe. Well... besides the Beatles, Stones and Who, our bass player's faves are Colin Molding, Nick Lowe and the Attractions! On drums, I want a former jazz guy who evolved into a backbeat drummer, yeah Ringo, okay?! All right now, do I have to lock up my guys so you don't steal 'em? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif As I mentioned, our drummer started out as a traditional jazz dude (his dad was a jazz trumpeter). Not only that, he's from New Orleans! He was in marching band in the Mardi Gras parades and can play the shit out of the second line stuff. I'd say he was pretty much genetically engineered to be a great drummer. Hey Lee, can your drummer ride hi hat with either hand and do that right hand wrist facing straight up, slicing 16th note hi hat thing that most drummers I know have to use two hands on? Yessir! He is left handed but plays right handed, like Ringo (and like me on guitar... LOL). So he switches hands on the hat very easily. Other than that, someone who adds relentless excitement and gives everyone adrenaline. Oh yeah baby! Sounds like you need to come down here and jam with us sometime! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 I'd like to clarify that when I made my last post in this thread I was not paying attention to the title of it.... Lee and Peart would not be my choice. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted September 26, 2001 Author Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by Chip McDonald: Lee and Peart. Hey! Cool! I didn't know that Lee plays with Neal Peart! She keeps talking about how awesome her drummer is. Wow! Now I believe her! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by mats.olsson@rockfile.se: Sly & Robbie i recorded sly & robbie back in the late 80's. when i heard they were coming, i made sure the house kit was set up perfectly, miked, tuned, etc. in walks sly with a roland 606 drum machine. he never touched the drums. i was crushed..... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: Hey! Cool! I didn't know that Lee plays with Neal Peart! She keeps talking about how awesome her drummer is. Wow! Now I believe her! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif AAAGGGHHHH!!! 'Scuse me while I HURL at the thought of that! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Do I have to lock my guys up so you don't come down here and steal em? Lee, where'd you find my sidemen? :-) Actually, we're only just recording right now. My sweetie and I write and sing everything and I do the instruments. I'm pretty experienced on things with strings, but where I'm in recording need is a tasty drummer and a piano player (think Nicky Hopkins meets Elton, you already know about my taste in drummers). If we ever get a budjet, we'll definately have to check out Atlanta. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: i recorded sly & robbie back in the late 80's. when i heard they were coming, i made sure the house kit was set up perfectly, miked, tuned, etc. in walks sly with a roland 606 drum machine. he never touched the drums. i was crushed..... -d. gauss oooooouuuch! Yhat must have hurt! Still, I bet that Sly's 606-programming must have been at least a little out of the ordinary? /Mats This message has been edited by mats.olsson@rockfile.se on 09-26-2001 at 02:54 PM http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by DC: Actually, we're only just recording right now. My sweetie and I write and sing everything and I do the instruments. I'm pretty experienced on things with strings, but where I'm in recording need is a tasty drummer and a piano player (think Nicky Hopkins meets Elton, you already know about my taste in drummers). If we ever get a budjet, we'll definately have to check out Atlanta. Yeah, definitely! I know the perfect piano player here too! He might be a little pricey for sessions, but ya never know. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Yeah, definitely! I know the perfect piano player here too! He might be a little pricey for sessions, but ya never know. --Lee Sounds cool. Actually, I found the perfect piano player, ungodly chops, excellant lead and harmony vocals, amazing synth ability too (could nail 'Magic Man' type solos; sound, feel and licks), wasn't prettier than my girl so no petty jealousy on stage potential, but she up and fell in love with a Canadian and moved to the 'great white north.' Rats... Weird thing is, I think a lot of us move to a city to try to 'make it.' Many years ago due to my tastes, I chose London and struck out overseas when I should have just checked Atlanta. Oh well... -Dave ps Lee, I lived in Crayford which right next to Dartford and you know who comes from Dartford, Souf East London, yes? -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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