you don't need no teacher...

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by stepay:

Regarding the use of double negatives, I can't tell if delirium is just joking or not, but double negatives are obviously not acceptable English grammar.

 

I have an M.A. in English Education, and used to teach middle school and high school, and the double negative thing always made my spine tingle.

So there!

 

I ask of you, "Are we havin' fun yet?"

 

Delirium, I understand your point of view.

 

No worries. It's all good. Things were winding up this morning, now they seem to be winding down. It's a funny time of year. I could use a mug of good cheer. That usually means a beer. I wish I wasn't here.

[Sven Golly]

I have to say, I'm inspired.

 

Extrapolating the "logic" (term used loosely) espoused by some folks in this thread, I've decided I don't need no job, neither.

[delirium]

Originally posted by RicBassGuy:

If we can't have "correct grammar", even for the shortest interval of time, why bother having grammar at all?

rules were meant to be broken from the very begining...They are just starting points.

You know that very well when you speeding 150 mph on the higway

 

p.s

Even God knew that when he sent Jesus

[stepay]

Originally posted by iLaw:

"What if God was one of us"? I bet Joan meant to use the subjunctive.

Hey! I already did the subjunctive thing with The Doors quote earlier! My toes hurt!

[stepay]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the

 

I wish I wasn't here. [/QB]

You mean, "I wish I WEREN'T here."

[Jim Alfredson]

For what its worth, grammar is concerned with the structure of speech and writing, not spelling as such.

 

I'm not saying grammar is useless, but like language itself, it should evolve and change. We do not speak or write the way they did back in Elizabethen England, nor should the rules of speech and writing be the same.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by stepay:

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the

 

I wish I wasn't here.

You mean, "I wish I WEREN'T here." [/QB]

You better be glad you're wearin' that helmet.

 

I wish I was not here.

 

I wish THEY WERE not here. (plural)

 

Oh my Gawd. And you have a Master's degree in English? What's the world coming to?

 

That's udderly ridiculous (see some other post in some other thread).

 

[stepay]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by stepay:

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the

 

I wish I wasn't here.

You mean, "I wish I WEREN'T here."

You better be glad you're wearin' that helmet.

 

I wish I was not here.

 

I wish THEY WERE not here. (plural)

 

Oh my Gawd. And you have a Master's degree in English? What's the world coming to?

 

That's udderly ridiculous (see some other post in some other thread).

 

[/QB]

Tom, I know you're just having fun with this grammar thing (and so am I -- I'm not a stickler for proper usage; not on a message board anyway), but you're confusing me.

 

Originally you wrote, "I wish I WASN'T here." When you use the word "wish" you can't say "was" or "wasn't". It must be "were" or "weren't". No plural is involved.

 

And, my M.A. is NOT in English. It is in English Education! (B.A. in journalism and English).

[Sandy Hemenway]

On the subject of teachers - (sarcasm aside) ...

 

One important thing to remember is that in almost any group of people there will be a bell curve of ability. MOST people in a defined group, (such as music teachers), will be "average". There will also be some exceptional teachers - as well as some real dogs.

 

Of course, there are minimum standards, where the deaf-mute parapalegic is not likely to be particularly adept at teaching piano.

 

But teaching in general is a tricky thing - because not every student is the same in termperment, interest, talent, etc. So, is the teacher supposed to adapt to every student and teach in a different way? Or is the student supposed to adapt to the teacher?

 

In an ideal world, there would be a little of both. But, the teacher IS a teacher based on the premise that they have some knowledge that the pupil can benefit from. Then, the basic question is how adept is teacher at imparting that knowledge. And in MOST teaching situations, the student often may not have a clue as to how much they don't know, or what questions to ask.

 

Knowing music theory certainly won't REMOVE any inate talent. But lacking music theory can leave a great talent without the vocabulary to converse with other musicians -- and that WILL hold a person back musically.

 

Sadly, much of the piano-teaching done in the world is done by people with only modest musical talent and knowledge trying to earn an extra buck or two working out of their homes.

 

To get better at ANY endeavor requires effort - and the HARDER it is to get to that next plateau, the better off one is for having made that effort.

[delirium]

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by stepay:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the

 

I wish I wasn't here.

You mean, "I wish I WEREN'T here."

You better be glad you're wearin' that helmet.

 

I wish I was not here.

 

I wish THEY WERE not here. (plural)

 

Oh my Gawd. And you have a Master's degree in English?

What's the world coming to?

 

That's udderly ridiculous (see some other post in some other thread).

Originally you wrote, "I wish I WASN'T here." When you use the word "wish" you can't say "was" or "wasn't". It must be "were" or "weren't". No plural is involved.

[/QB]

---

well, well...

Stepay is exactly right!

[stepay]

Originally posted by delirium:

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stepay:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the

 

I wish I wasn't here.

You mean, "I wish I WEREN'T here."

You better be glad you're wearin' that helmet.

 

I wish I was not here.

 

I wish THEY WERE not here. (plural)

 

Oh my Gawd. And you have a Master's degree in English?

What's the world coming to?

 

That's udderly ridiculous (see some other post in some other thread).

Originally you wrote, "I wish I WASN'T here." When you use the word "wish" you can't say "was" or "wasn't". It must be "were" or "weren't". No plural is involved.

---

well, well...

Stepay is exactly right! [/QB]

---

Now, once everyone applies that logic to ALL of my posts, then and ONLY then has everyone seen the LIGHT my brother!

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Originally you wrote, "I wish I WASN'T here." When you use the word "wish" you can't say "was" or "wasn't". It must be "were" or "weren't". No plural is involved.

 

And, my M.A. is NOT in English. It is in English Education! (B.A. in journalism and English).

WOWZA Well blow me down!

 

I have never in my 21 years heard that before!

 

I'll take your word for it, Stepay.

 

In the meantime, I'll do some research on just why the private schools I was in and out of all my life didn't teach me this.

 

Thanks for the update!

[stepay]

No problem Tom. Like I said, I'm no stickler.

 

Not many people know it, but I happen to be quite famous.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Not many people know it, but I happen to be quite famous.

You're famous, Stepay? Excellent!

 

Did you write a book or something?

[kad]

"How I wish you WERE here. We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year..."

[delirium]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

In the meantime, I'll do some research on just why the private schools I was in and out of all my life didn't teach me this.

[/QB]

here you are:

wish verbs

 

 

BTW,

that's the advantage learning English in Europe, because you learn whole boring grammar, all 12 (or rather 24 tenses) etc.

 

My kids went to primary US school and they barely were teaching grammar there...

[Jazz+]

Originally posted by Sandy Hemenway:

On the subject of teachers - (sarcasm aside) ...

 

One important thing to remember is that in almost any group of people there will be a bell curve of ability. MOST people in a defined group, (such as music teachers), will be "average". There will also be some exceptional teachers - as well as some real dogs.

 

Of course, there are minimum standards, where the deaf-mute parapalegic is not likely to be particularly adept at teaching piano.

 

But teaching in general is a tricky thing - because not every student is the same in termperment, interest, talent, etc. So, is the teacher supposed to adapt to every student and teach in a different way? Or is the student supposed to adapt to the teacher?

 

In an ideal world, there would be a little of both. But, the teacher IS a teacher based on the premise that they have some knowledge that the pupil can benefit from. Then, the basic question is how adept is teacher at imparting that knowledge. And in MOST teaching situations, the student often may not have a clue as to how much they don't know, or what questions to ask.

 

Knowing music theory certainly won't REMOVE any inate talent. But lacking music theory can leave a great talent without the vocabulary to converse with other musicians -- and that WILL hold a person back musically.

 

Sadly, much of the piano-teaching done in the world is done by people with only modest musical talent and knowledge trying to earn an extra buck or two working out of their homes.

 

To get better at ANY endeavor requires effort - and the HARDER it is to get to that next plateau, the better off one is for having made that effort.

Best post of the day.

[dementedchord]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Exactly! That's the spirit!

 

I propose a book burning - just theory and scale books. There's nothing like a good book burning to bring people together in a common cause.

 

(It will take some time for those extra jobs to show up, but this is the best way to achieve our goals. Next meeting, my place - Thursday evenings at 7 to discuss more strategies.)

rant on bro....

oh and i think the .... indicates a casual conversational style so... FO...

re: bach... if IIRC it wasn't so much book lernin as much as his father was capplemeister before him...

 

there have always been and will always be the exception to the rule ie:garner... that being said i'm constantly amazed by those that use that as an excuse not to do their homework... jimi did'nt need it... stevie ray didn't... garner ate my homework... the question should not be whether they did theirs but rather in that great bell curve of humanity where do the majority of learned vs unlernd lie...

 

can you hack your way through gimme three steps without a comp degree??? duh... yeah 2-3 times a week...

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by delirium:

here you are:

wish verbs

Excellent!

 

See how confusing this english-stuff can be?

 

No kidding. I did not know this. I'm glad that Stepay pointed it out because when I go to visit the President of the United States, I certainly don't want to look like a fool by thinking that this was perfectly proper grammar.

 

Hey delirium - it's all good. We never stop learning. Teachers are good. Education is good.

 

But I kinda like Dave's idea of a campfire.

 

Who's bringing the marshmallows?

 

Happy Holidays guys.

 

Tom

[stepay]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Not many people know it, but I happen to be quite famous.

You're famous, Stepay? Excellent!

 

Did you write a book or something?

Tom,

 

The "famous" line is from an episode of Cheers. Sam says this to Diane. It is funny of course because if not many people know it then how can he be famous?

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by stepay:

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by stepay:

 

Not many people know it, but I happen to be quite famous.

You're famous, Stepay? Excellent!

 

Did you write a book or something?

Tom,

 

The "famous" line is from an episode of Cheers. Sam says this to Diane. It is funny of course because if not many people know it then how can he be famous?

Dammit Stepay.

 

I missed that episode.

 

Diane... now there was a love/hate relationship.

 

You know Stepay, I think I would have liked it better if you'd had just lied and made something up.

 

And for cryin' out loud (loudly), I give you permission to correct my English anytime.

 

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by delirium:

My kids went to primary US school and they barely were teaching grammar there...

Yeah. It's all about relativity in US schools these days... I stay on my son something fierce about his grammar. Of course, that sentence is probably horrid from a grammar perspective...

[Billdar]

skuse me y'all. ime havin sum trubble figgerin wut y'all arr tawkin abowt. but I kinda think some fokes dont like ta reed stuf wen its ritten in bad inglish, but dat moest a yus dont mind atall.

 

enny how, i jest wantya ta noe dat dis is how I reely rite. i been goin to da trubble of hirin a goast riter to do ma posts in unnerstannable inglish. but now it luks like i kin git away wit ma reguler riten.

 

dis is gude, cuz i bin seein dat da goast riter bin riten bout hisself, an not wut I bin tellin im ta rite. sumpin rong wit im enny how, cuz he alus stiks ta da subjek.

 

Dont i yuse peeriods an kwestchun marks gude?

[ProfD]

Nowadays, a student/musician should be able to find a capable teacher/mentor who shares a common interest and understands exactly what they are trying to accomplish musically.

 

There is no real excuse for being handicapped musically. It is easier to "dumb down" than it is to ramp up.

 

Learning is an investment in happiness, livelihood and peace of mind.

[delirium]

what was the topic...got it

 

When I look back now I see I lost many years because of bad teachers, and I think you really need teacher on the very beginning to set the techniques right. Later on you need more an audience then a teacher, you need music all around you thats your teacher.

[Michelle ggurl]

Originally posted by B3-er:

I'm not saying grammar is useless, but like language itself, it should evolve and change. We do not speak or write the way they did back in Elizabethen England, nor should the rules of speech and writing be the same.

True, language should (and does) evolve, but if you have no rules of structure -- that is, no grammar -- then what exactly is evolving? Take nuthin' from nuthin' and you get ...

 

FWIW I should mention I earn about half my living (non-music-related) from my spelling and grammatical prowess. That's right, I'm a word-nerd for hire. And in the "profession," there are undisputed authorities: Webster's Dictionary and Chicago Manual of Style (some pub. houses also use AP Style guide). Not saying y'all need to be familiar with them, but if you want professional polish on what you write, you hire people like me ... I work for some major publishers, and I'm glad to have the work. So those are references to look for, if anyone's interested. They change with every edition to reflect changes in language.

 

As far as lessons, hey if you think you don't need them, by all means do the teachers a favor and don't take them. Of course I'm just being kinda silly there, but that's the OTHER thing I do to earn a living, teach ... damn, Geekgurl and all her rules! No seriously, students don't get much out of lessons unless they're motivated and OPEN to learning. There are many ways to teach, too. Ya gotta have the right teacher for you.

 

I still take lessons once in a while; doesn't mean I'm not creative or can't learn things on my own. Far from it. But I am, at this stage, advanced enough to know that certain skills I'm trying to acquire will come to me faster by studying with this particular teacher. I think picking the RIGHT teacher is very important; not just that their skills and your needs should be a fit, but also personality and temprament, teaching style.

 

Well, Delirium, good luck in your musical journey, how ever you decide to take it ...

[Finale]

By the way, why do you guys pronounce "iron" like "I earn"?

 

Remember my English is better when I type than when I speak. Still have a hard time to pronounce those "h" and "th" after all those years.

 

It's great when I say "I (h)ate flies", not pronouncing the "h", and everyone says "wheeeeeeew".

 

Joyeux Noël!

[Billdar]

Originally posted by Cydonia:

By the way, why do you guys pronounce "iron" like "I earn"?

It's probably for the same reason that you guys say "about" like "a boat".

 

Or is that just an Ontario thing?

[Finale]

Originally posted by Billdar:

It's probably for the same reason that you guys say "about" like "a boat".

 

Or is that just an Ontario thing?

I thought they (in Ontario) pronounced it "a boot"?

[Finale]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I propose a book burning - just theory and scale books. There's nothing like a good book burning to bring people together in a common cause.

You (and Stepay) need to watch that movie :

 

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/filmes/fahrenheit-451/fahrenheit-451-poster01.jpg