Opinions on ear training

[Loufrance]

I'd like some opinions on these sites for ear training. http://herken.sourceforge.net/eartrain.htm

http://www.flexatone.net/post-ut/

 

I'm very aware I'm opening up a can of worms but it must be done.

[SilverDragonSoun]

This topic has been brought up before couple times over the last year. If you do a search, I'm sure they'll come up.

[Ed Coury]

Originally posted by Loufrance:

I'd like some opinions on these sites for ear training. http://herken.sourceforge.net/eartrain.htm

http://www.flexatone.net/post-ut/

 

I'm very aware I'm opening up a can of worms but it must be done.

I would recommend products with frightening models in their advertising -- this is the most frightening I know of:

http://neutronstar.org/soc/Images/Perfect_Pitch.png

[Loufrance]

Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound:

This topic has been brought up before couple times over the last year. If you do a search, I'm sure they'll come up.

Thank you, I have read some of the topics that came up in the search, but I need comments regarding the sites I posted the links to.

 

I also understand that this topic has been brought up many times before but I'm interested in Ear training not perfect pitch.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Posted by Loufrance:

I also understand that this topic has been brought up many times before but I'm interested in Ear training not perfect pitch.

 

Gotcha. In that case I would recommend a real teacher or community college. My experience with programs is that they work for certain types of people. You could also train yourself if you have the patience. I'd start with single notes and work oyur way into something like country music. I actually trained myself and while I'm not the greatest ear, I do a decent job.

[Dave Horne]

Ear training isn't a course that you pass and then you all of a sudden have excellent ears.

 

You want to train your ears, take a handful of tunes that you like and transcribe that information from the CD to a piece of paper. The first time will take more time than the 100th time. That is ear training.

 

YOu are playing in a jam session and you try to copy the last four bars that were just played. That is ear training.

 

Ear training is not a course to pass, it's a lifetime of listening, copying, transcribing and working through things. It is just being able to recognize what you hear.

 

Have a friend play intervals at your keyboard and you have to state the correct interval.

 

Isn't this obvious?

[Edgar Summers]

I used to practice intervals in the car with my daughter. She's entering college soon and has a darn good ear!

 

I have found serveral sites that will play the intervals for you and quiz you. chords and triads as well. They were pretty good for solo practicing.

 

I'd still say, take a class. I always liked sight-singing better than theory. Not to be lazy though-both are important to develope your skills.

 

Good luck!

[Jazzwee]

I've tried some online ear training stuff (free websites). The problem is that I'm not sure I got a lot out of it. The sound is awful, compared to playing on my keyboard, the notes not so distinct.

 

You can accomplish the same thing yourself just sitting on a keyboard and playing the distinct voicings and intervals.

 

Sometimes context is all that is necessary to figure out what you are hearing. A chord out of context is hard to figure out and I don't even know why I would care at that point. How one chord relates to another is more important and if you understand the theory involved, it will go hand in hand with hearing.

[Jazzwee]

(Dup)

[dementedchord]

to me the best ear training is to simply sing along as you play single note lines on your board.. start with easy tunes that you dont already play then move on to harder tunes and other oddities... dont be surprised if your soloing gets better as your removing one of the biggest obstcles between your head and hands...

[keyman_sam]

Dave hits the nail on the head.

[Ed Coury]

http://ed.coury.com/pitch.jpg

[ProfD]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Ear training isn't a course that you pass and then you all of a sudden have excellent ears.

 

You want to train your ears, take a handful of tunes that you like and transcribe that information from the CD to a piece of paper. The first time will take more time than the 100th time. That is ear training.

 

YOu are playing in a jam session and you try to copy the last four bars that were just played. That is ear training.

 

Ear training is not a course to pass, it's a lifetime of listening, copying, transcribing and working through things. It is just being able to recognize what you hear.

 

Have a friend play intervals at your keyboard and you have to state the correct interval.

 

Isn't this obvious?

Loufrance, this may not be the answer you want, however, DH's explanation is the real deal.

 

Before CDs and other forms of recorded music, internet courses, etc., and even at present, musicians "woodshed".

 

They practice solo and in groups, sharing and trading knowledge and quizzing each other on these kinds of things.

 

Practice, play enough tunes, listen to more and eventually your ears will pick up on the intervals.

 

It takes time. The pundits are really selling nothing more than....discipline.

[David Loving]

There are no short-cuts in my opinion. DH is correct. If you want to blow money or time on someone's "course," fine. You be better off practicing scales and singing along with them.

[Loufrance]

Thanks guys, I did check out that Perfect Pitch course but the website gave me a bad vibe, it felt like a commercial for stuff they sell on T.V.

 

Well I suppose I'll just have to go to my keyboard and have a seat.

[rg3000]

There is nothing wrong with most ear training software, cd's, etc, but it's really a matter of how you use them and how dedicated you are to practicing. As Dave said, it can take a lifetime to perfect the skills needed to accurately and effortlessly play by ear.

 

As for the sound quality of ear training software, they aren't all bad. Some like the interval, chord, and random melody ear trainer at this site use midi to generate the sounds:

 

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/

 

If your sound card is decent and if you have good speakers or headphones, the sound quality is very good.

 

-Rick

[suraci]

Someone mentioned "singing along with them".

I used to be in a chorus. Sight singing my vocal part was really helpful. Singing is critical to ear training. I don't meaning singing in the vocal sense ( where diversions, like vocal range, and tone are at issue ), but just that kind of training of being in a chorus.

Also: I used to sing along with my own vocal harmonization of an extremely melodic jazz player, Stan Getz. He had a popular record with Jobim which had a slew of songs on it, "So Danco Samba","Girl from Ipanema", "Grande Amor" etc. Get that record and sing a harmony to the sax's solo. Great training in general.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by daviel:

There are no short-cuts in my opinion. DH is correct. If you want to blow money or time on someone's "course," fine. You be better off practicing scales and singing along with them.

There are always going to be more or less efficient ways of learning. It's hard enough one way or the other, so why not try to find out what's most efficient?

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I've tried some online ear training stuff (free websites). The problem is that I'm not sure I got a lot out of it. The sound is awful, compared to playing on my keyboard, the notes not so distinct.

I've found that as well. On at least one site that uses 'pre-recorded' sounds, I'm not convinced that there aren't at least a few errors, either.

[dv8.Maker]

I'll 3rd what Dave said. Ear training takes a lot of practice and repetition. You can spend years in college theory classes devoted to listening to music and trying to identify the pitches and rhythms heard. If you want to practice at home I would recommend sitting in front of a keyboard and getting familiar with how the different intervals sound. Then start trying to apply those skills when listening to songs.

 

A trick we used in theory class was to identify a theme or a song that represented that interval (I'm going way back in history so hopefully my memory serves me...minor 7 = Star Trek, Tri-tone = Maria, Maj 6 = NBC theme).

[delirium]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I've tried some online ear training stuff (free websites). The problem is that I'm not sure I got a lot out of it. The sound is awful, compared to playing on my keyboard, the notes not so distinct.

I've found that as well. On at least one site that uses 'pre-recorded' sounds, I'm not convinced that there aren't at least a few errors, either.

that's true but you don't have to use windows sound. I used to use only programs that support midi, so I connected my keyboard and had as great sound as I wanted.

[delirium]

Originally posted by daviel:

There are no short-cuts in my opinion. DH is correct. You be better off practicing scales and singing along with them.

There is a problem with this approach,

when you don't get right attitude from your ear you can sing and "scale" 20 years with no progress at all. There are some shortcuts in training your ears, but they are not easy to comprehend.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by delirium:

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

I've tried some online ear training stuff (free websites). The problem is that I'm not sure I got a lot out of it. The sound is awful, compared to playing on my keyboard, the notes not so distinct.

I've found that as well. On at least one site that uses 'pre-recorded' sounds, I'm not convinced that there aren't at least a few errors, either.

that's true but you don't have to use windows sound. I used to use only programs that support midi, so I connected my keyboard and had as great sound as I wanted.

Exactly... anything that uses MIDI can overcome that problem.

[delirium]

Originally posted by Ed Coury:

Originally posted by Loufrance:

I'd like some opinions on these sites for ear training. http://herken.sourceforge.net/eartrain.htm

http://www.flexatone.net/post-ut/

 

I'm very aware I'm opening up a can of worms but it must be done.

I would recommend products with frightening models in their advertising -- this is the most frightening I know of:

http://neutronstar.org/soc/Images/Perfect_Pitch.png

BTW

I didn't see anything frightening from Lucas Burge's program when I borrow it years ago from a friend. Very well done. What you can get out of it and how much it costs it's different story.

 

you must have some specific issues with the guy...