C major arpeggio - startling revelation

[Byrdman]

Don't try this in piano exam!

 

One of the basic principles of playing piano is to eliminate unneccesary motion. With that in mind, the conventional way to play an arpeggio, with the thumb turn across the forth (in C major for example) is wrong - one should be turning the thumb the least distance and, given the choice of two possibilities, starting from the position where the hand is least extended.

 

So you should use the fingering (starting on C) 2 3 1 2 3 ....

 

Just tried this and it felt wierd but after a few reps it was clearly easier.

 

Now all tell me I was the only one who did not know this. Was everyone taught to turn the thumb between G and C, like I was?

[iLaw]

One of the arpeggio exercises that I was taught, and that I still do almost every day, is to cycle arpeggios up and down multiple octaves through the following chord progression, modulating up chromatically through every key:

 

I - vi - IV - iv - I - i - bVI - new I, now a half step higher. Repeat ad infinitum or until certain other household members threaten divorce.

 

Bottom note of the arpeggio is always the tonic of the key, with inversions as necessary (the vi and bVI for example would be in first inversion, the IV and iv in second inversion. Wouldn't it be nice if I could just sketch out the notation? but that's another thread)

 

Whenever the tonic is a white key, always use the thumb on the tonic, both hands (fingerings in keys with black key tonics are ideosyncratic).

 

As a result, you end up playing both major and minor chord arpeggios up and down with the thumb on (a) the root (the I and i chords), (b) the third (the vi and bVI chords) and © the fifth (the IV and iv chords). This last fingering (thumb on the fifth) is the fingering you've described above, except that I would be more likely to use my fourth finger where you've indicated third finger.

 

If you've never tried the exercise, give it a try. I think it does wonders for your triadic arpeggios.

 

Larry.

[Jazz+]

I agree with Larry, thumb on white starting notes.

[Joe P]

Folk,

Not sure if this "on topic", but a right hand arpeggio I like is based on the tenth. I can't play it in all keys because it can sometimes be a bit of a stretch, but for example, for C major it would be the tonic, the fifth, the octave and the tenth (C/G/C/E) played 1/2/4/5. Food for thought.

Regards,

Joe

[Byrdman]

That's the standard way we are all taught at an early age.

 

Try it the way I suggest and compare.

[Byrdman]

That's the standard way we are all taught at an early age.

 

Try it the way I suggest and compare.

[FXM]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

 

So you should use the fingering (starting on C) 2 3 1 2 3 ....

 

I'd never thought of this, but it seems to be a good idea to me. Possibly slightly better is 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 etc.

 

Neil

[Byrdman]

BTW, and this is in no way startling but its important.

 

When practicing arpeggios and scales it is real important to do so rythmically.

 

When playing a simple three not arpeggio it is very easy to play it in groups of 3 since the thumb (say) falls on every 1 beat. Makes it easy to hide a stiff thumb turn.

 

Do it in groups of 4 and the beat alternates between the fingers. To keep the rythm your thumb turn has to be smooth.

 

Same thing with scales - its so easy to play a major scale in alternating groups of 3 and 4, but make yourself play in groups of 3, then 4 then 5 then 6. Its particularly fun (ie, easy to crash and burn) when the number of beats does not match the number of notes in one direction so you get to turn around in the middle of a beat.

 

When I was young I always got "thumb turn stiff" in exam results but nobody ever told me to do this to cure it.

[marino]

Back to the original question:

When playing an arpeggited triad with just white keys (C, F, Dm, Am, etc.) you can place the thumb on *any* of the chord notes. I would advice to play a root position C chord arpeggio starting with the thumb, then second and third fingers, then thumb again on high C, etc.

The fingering you're suggesting is, admittedly, easier; but the point is that in actual pieces of music, you must be ready to place your thumb on any white key (and sometimes black keys too), so many times you don't have that choice. If you have practiced *only* the easiest fingering, you could find yourself in trouble.

 

But you also have to practice those 'other' fingerings. How? Simple - by playing the arpeggio's inversions. If you play E-G-C, for example, start with thumb, then 2 and 4, then 1 again on high E. Same fingering for the second inversion, starting from G. Play on 2 octaves first, then try 4 octaves with accents every four notes.

[rockfan]

Thumb on white.

Thumb on black when you're practicing sharps.

When practicing major scales I was taught 1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5.

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by marino:

The fingering you're suggesting is, admittedly, easier; but the point is that in actual pieces of music, you must be ready to place your thumb on any white key (and sometimes black keys too), so many times you don't have that choice. If you have practiced *only* the easiest fingering, you could find yourself in trouble.

 

So you think they teach you the hardest fingering first deliberately? That was the startling bit for me - that the standard, and in-isolation, way is not also the easiest. If I saw a C major arpeggio in a piece with no fingering constraints caused by context, and no particular need to place the thumb for rythmic considerations, I would have automatically gone for that standard fingering.

[marino]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

Originally posted by marino:

The fingering you're suggesting is, admittedly, easier; but the point is that in actual pieces of music, you must be ready to place your thumb on any white key (and sometimes black keys too), so many times you don't have that choice. If you have practiced *only* the easiest fingering, you could find yourself in trouble.

 

So you think they teach you the hardest fingering first deliberately? That was the startling bit for me - that the standard, and in-isolation, way is not also the easiest. If I saw a C major arpeggio in a piece with no fingering constraints caused by context, and no particular need to place the thumb for rythmic considerations, I would have automatically gone for that standard fingering.

Well, the fact that you may have studied a particular fingering for a particular inversion of a particular chord, shouldn't stop you to always find the easiest fingering for the given situation. What I meant in my post is, once you've practiced all three inversion starting with thumb on each one, you should be able to place your thumb on any of the chord notes, no matter what note you start with. You have several things to consider when choosing the right fingering. Here's an example: Let's say that in a piece you have to play a two octave ascending arpeggio of a root position C, C-E-G-C-E-G-C. You could use your 'easy' fingering, but this forces you to two thumbs turns. By starting with the thumb on C, you have only one turn. If, on the other hand, that same arpeggio continues to another E and a G above that last high C, your fingering makes perfect sense.

And of course, you'll have to consider what happens before and after the arpeggio.