Jim Aikin - Shame on you.

[marino]

Jim, thanks a lot for your response.

 

You're right that in some performance situations, controlling the speed at which you release the keys is close to impossible.

There are, however, some cases where I find it really useful:

 

- Pads of any kind. If you're holding long chords, controlling your release velocity is not hard. Let's say you're controlling release of the amplitude envelope; you might need to let the chords overlap a bit during a section (slow release), then stop the last chord abruptly to leave space for the following, more rhythmic, section (release the last chord faster).

 

- Leads. If you're using an analog-type sound, controlling filter envelope release with your note-off velocity can help giving extra life to your solo sound, even if you are not in perfect control of every note-off - the release of each note will sound a bit different, adding motion and interest.

[alfonso]

To have a picture on what kind of contemporary users would love every possible controller message available from a keyboard, some attention should be payed on the users of software modulars and all these flexible plugins that allow controller assignement. I know that these people, together with the very well trained, old school keyboard wizards are a minority today, but not a very little one.

 

For example I suffer of absence of Poly AT on my MC2000, because the Creamware Modular that is usually the 95% of the sound I use, can receive it, and I can easily build something that uses release stages to trigger oscillators or whatever triggerable...

 

The mere use of keyboards as a way to surrogate traditional instruments is something of the past, not because it's dead, it's absolutely alive and useful, but the new software instruments are calling for full features on MIDI controllers, while the mainstream industry is playing a bit of a surpassed game on hardware controllers.

 

I'd love to have a controller able to output and manipulate ALL the CC#'s in the protocol....(more than 100 faders? ouch! nice dream though...)

[Kayvon]

Originally posted by alfonso:

I'd love to have a controller able to output and manipulate ALL the CC#'s in the protocol...

Surely even better would be NRPNs!

 

What would be cool would be modular keyboards... I'll have a Roland pitch stick with an unsprung mod wheel, poly AT, semi-weighted keys etc etc.

 

Would anybody care to guess what a semi weighted synth action with actual hammers would be like?

 

Now I am just dreaming out loud

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Originally posted by Rabid:

I think the trick is not just adding poly touch for $75 more than other cheap keyboards. What I want is a really GOOD keyboard controller with all the features, even if it is $400 more. Give me the same keyboard that you get on a Fantom X or Motif ES. Give me poly after touch, breath controller input, a few high quality knobs and sliders that do not feel like they have sand inside, release velocity, both a stick and wheels. Give me quick selection keys for patches and multiple MIDI outputs to control a rack of synths and a screen that will let me name those setups.

 

I would rather pay $1500 for a true quality, professional controller than $500 for a cheap 88 key with uneven response and more knobs than I will ever use.

 

Robert

Precisely my thoughts. I would pay plenty of cash for a very good controller with 3 wheels, a Korg-style stick, a small and Kurzweil-style large ribbon, at least 9 sliders, plenty of knobs (we differ here apparently, but I'd certainly use them), RV, PAT, BC, and the other various things you mentioned. It's sad that guitar players have been able to do this sort of thing for years - specify exactly which features they want, and if they're willing to pay a little extra, they'll get them. As keyboard players, we're stuck at the lowest common denominator.

 

anything that makes a keyboard more expressive is laudable.

Yes, part of the reason more people prefer guitar to keyboards is the lack of expression. With a guitar you are directly manipulating the strings, so the more tools in our arsenal we have to combat such advantages, the better.

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by LithoJazzoSphere:

It's sad that guitar players have been able to do this sort of thing for years - specify exactly which features they want, and if they're willing to pay a little extra, they'll get them. As keyboard players, we're stuck at the lowest common denominator.

Well put, LithoJazzoSphere.

 

Now if we could only talk Fatar (or another manufacturer) into adopting the old Burger King "Have it your way" philosophy!

 

(As the conversation winds have shifted, this thread might more aptly be entitled, "Keyboard Manufacturers - Shame on you.")

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Marzzz]

Originally posted by LithoJazzoSphere:

 

Yes, part of the reason more people prefer guitar to keyboards is the lack of expression. With a guitar you are directly manipulating the strings, so the more tools in our arsenal we have to combat such advantages, the better.

Another part of it is that you only need to know a small handful of chords to be able to "rock out" to a significant degree, while with keyboards you actually need to possess some technique (of course, to play either well you must really apply yourself!). It seems that there are a lot of mediocre keybeds out there, whose sole purpose is to input data into a sequencer.

 

I'll chime in also to say I would pay handsomely for an 88 (piano style) key, Poly AT, BC, RV, ribbon, knobs/sliders etc controller. And it wouldn't hurt if they could leave a reasonably flat surface on which to place another keyboard....!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Another part of it is that you only need to know a small handful of chords to be able to "rock out" to a significant degree, while with keyboards you actually need to possess some technique

It would not surprise me a bit if it was discovered that a sizeable portion of "professional" guitar players in bands don't know much more than half a dozen chord shapes, power chords, and a pentatonic scale form or two. It's easier to be a lazy guitarist (especially a bass player) than it is to be a lazy keyboard player (unless all you play involves 2 and note pads). Keep in mind, I'm a guitar player as well myself, but I like to keep the record straight.

 

And it wouldn't hurt if they could leave a reasonably flat surface on which to place another keyboard....!

CME had a very good design going with this concept. However, in order to impliment a more full control set and not have the control surface crammed, you really need that extra half of the keyboard. Which is why the modular keyboard concept is very appealing to me. I have no problem setting up more stands and spreading my rig out, but I want full control over as many aspects of my sound as possible in real time. The Korg OASYS and Kurzweil K26000 come a lot closer to this ideal, but no such keyboard exists in a controller format.

[Prague]

Originally posted by Marzzz:

... Poly AT, BC, RV, ribbon, knobs/sliders etc...

And keep those pedals in mind, too. I have a hard time getting keyboardists to use their feet.

 

The pipe organists use their feet for expression pedals, stops, and actually playing notes. Modern keyboardists have largely forgotten a lot of this.