Muscle memory?

[shniggens]

How valuable is muscle memory?

 

Can it be relied on if theoretical memory fails in a performance?

 

Can it be trained in practice? For instance, I am working on a jazz hanon excercise that has right hand mixo patterns over 9th chords in the left hand. Will my fingers "remember" these patterns?

 

Can hands be trained to "know" blues scales in all keys? Improvise without the brain?

 

What do you consider to be more valuable - muscle memory or theoretical knowledge?

 

I know that the Bach pieces I have memorized only get played right when I don't think about it.

 

[coyote]

Most concert pianists have rehearsed their more complex bits quite thoroughly, so muscle memory is quite important. Sight-reading comes into play when muscle memory falters; if you rely exclusively on memory and you miss a spot, the entire performance could become a train wreck. But if you have the ability to sight-read, you're generally following the score (actually, looking ahead of it) as you play and can easily find your place and continue from there.

[marino]

Muscle memory: You can use it, but you can't rely on it.

Muscle memory, or mechanical memory as someone calls it, is a function which resides partly in the right side of the brain, partly in the central nerve system (don't know if they're not the right English terms, but I hope it's clear).

 

Now, this type of memory, taken by itself, is the most unreliable. As the environment's conditions (instrument, place, lights, time of day) change, you're going to make a mess of your notes. Expect out-of-sync hands, wobbling tempi, repeated figures, and so on.

 

But a bit of muscle memory can be used in musical performance IMO. So how you balance things? The trick is in how you approach the piece when you're first learning it : The more time you spend dissecting the piece with you left brain, rational functions, before allowing the instinctive right brain to take over, the more securely the piece will be sculpted in your memory.

 

If you try to learn a piece by simply playing it over and over, from beginning to end, you allow muscle memory to take command of your playing too early, and you're asking for disaster when you're going to perform it.

 

I've verified this countless times, especially when studying difficult classical or contemporary pieces. Once you've a general idea of the piece, it's always best to divide it into sections (and subsections if necessary), and learn each one separately as if they were separate pieces. Then you have to do a very patient 'reconstructing' job, joining sections, matching tempi, and rebuiding the whole piece little by little.

 

I've noticed that with pieces which have been practiced this way, you can recall them even after a few years, simply by first playing them slowly a couple of times.

 

BTW - The other kinds of memory that you have at your disposal:

 

- Aural memory. That's your inner ear remembering the music, and of course it's of the utmost importance.

 

- Visual memory. This can be both of the keyboard and of the written music page, and both could be very useful, especially in remembering some short, inticate passages.

 

- Structural memory. This is the most cerebral, and consequently the surest, safest one. It just develops naturally if you regularly practice your music by dividing it into sections. You know, the myth that you can practice a piece in the shower... In real life, not everybody is Mozart, but we all can strive for excellence IMO.

 

So, you can used muscle memory, in a limited way, when you learn to balance it with the other types.

 

A final consideration: Everybody's born with more facility for one kind of memory over the others... but with practice, you can reach the complete picture.

 

Also: This does NOT apply to jazz, or other improvisational types of music; only to written, or pre-composed, music.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Originally posted by shniggens:

Improvise without the brain?

No, I'm afraid that doesn't work....

[shniggens]

Originally posted by marino:

Also: This does NOT apply to jazz, or other improvisational types of music; only to written, or pre-composed, music.

So how does it apply to improv. then?

[I I mjrn]

I'd mention that muscle memory is only the result of extended practice, not something that's in any real way mentally controllable so it couldn't sub for "theoretical memory".

Also while you might practice something in one position or key, I don't think that would be transferable to another key unless the relationship between fingers & the actual instrument keys (not the musical keys) was the same.

 

Also keep in mind that in practice people frequently make errors; if one makes the same mistake repeatedly there's actual danger of "learning the mistake".

[Ben One]

I'd love to hear the additional tips about improvisation, but I just wanted to say that the insights thus far have been very interesting, even for an intermediate-level player like me.

 

Carlo, your single reply was equivalent to a valuable piano lesson with an exceptional teacher--the "structural memory" approach makes a lot of sense, and gives me encouragement that I too could play a difficult classical piece someday if only I break it down into sections and practice them enough. And yes, the English terms that you used are basically 100% correct--we call it the "central nervous system" in case you were wondering.

 

Ben

[shniggens]

Originally posted by BenOne:

Carlo, your single reply was equivalent to a valuable piano lesson with an exceptional teacher--

Ben

They usually are!

[Ben One]

Originally posted by shniggens:

They usually are!

Very true!!! Thanks for posing a great question, by the way!

[ksoper]

I had an interesting experience on the bandstand last night...

 

We got to the end of a keyboard-intensive ballad--we've been playing it since last summer, but we haven't played a full show in over a month, and I found my concentration wandering. Well, when we hit the outro I discovered to my horror that I was a little lost. Add to that the fact that keyboards carry the outro. I used the force, relaxed, and let my fingers find their correct positions aided by my ears and knowledge of the tune--as opposed to consciously playing the part. Kinda like the autopilot switch got turned on for a second. The performance of the outro wasn't as smooth as I'm used to playing, but it was note-accurate and concluded without a train wreck.

 

I chalked it up to muscle memory.

 

In improvisational music, muscle memory might, I think, be used when you reach into your bag of scales. This is where I'm particularly weak, though I have a few tricks that I can deploy easily. And my hands know instinctively how to play the tricks in many keys.

 

Just a thought.

 

k.

[Krakit]

This is why I'll never be truly great. I think I must use about 80% muscle memory to play in performance.

 

My brute force technique is costing me and I think I'm probably too old to change habits now.

 

I do improve but it always comes as a surprise to me when I do.

 

When I say surprise I don't mean that I don't expect to improve, I do. I just never know when it will happen or in what way. I put in a lot of practice time and when I do it's kinda aimless.

 

It's like I'm real diligent and industrious when it comes to putting in the physical labor of practice, but I have no focus or direction in that regard.

 

No disciplin I suppose. Probably the result of being self taught.

 

Oh well, I still reach points of extreme happiness with my abilities. These last for a time and then I get depressed until the next spike of improvement hits. It's kinda like getting new gear as a surprise gift once in a while when you're feeling blue.

 

Carl

[shniggens]

Lessons, Krakit, LESSONS!!!!!

 

My practices always felt aimless, or at least very unfocused until I found a good teacher.

 

Oh well, I still reach points of extreme happiness with my abilities. These last for a time and then I get depressed until the next spike of improvement hits. It's kinda like getting new gear as a surprise gift once in a while when you're feeling blue.

As far as this statement goes . . . I COMPLETELY understand.

[mike g]

My jazz teacher of mine said he plays is best when he doesn't think about it. It not like he's thinking of what he's going to for lunch but he's listening to the music and he's practices soooo much, patterns, scales, technique, licks whatever...it's practiced and master to a high level. now when he plays this all comes out...the brain process info much fast than we could imagine. just think of all the different information that were spitting out and receiving from you reading this, listening to sounds, breathing, sitting up...it's incredible. So when he's playing a piece his brain takes over and as he think of things to play his hands are spitting it out.

 

it like riding a bike...you might be a little rusty but you've gain those skills and your brain picks it up a lot quicker the second and umteeth times....

 

Try this...practice say scales every day with real focus...then take a few days off...let it sink in the ol nogg'n. then go back to the scales, i bet your faster and better at them.

 

ahh this is too deep for me at this time at night....