The Official 2003-2004 NHL Thread!

[Fat Chance]

John welcome back dude

 

Will get to see Sean Burke against the Rangers tonight.It's ashame that Lindros isn't playing

 

Jeff

What was the deal with Cechmanek behind the net last night

 

I feel for ya Jeff,I had deal with him for three years when he was a Flyer.

 

Peace

Rob

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by flyscots:

So what exactly is this "Positional Vertigo" that has forced Hackett to retire (with a push from the Flyer bosses of course.) I know Vertigo to be a fear of heights but what's this one? Scared of playing at the top?

Vertigo isn't actually fear of heights...that's acrophonbia. Vertigo is an inability to maintain balance, and is described as that dizzying feeling one gets when looking down from a distance (hence your misconception). Getting multiple concussions can mess with your inner ear mechanisms, causing a chronic feeling of vertigo. Can't play hockey if you don't know which way is up...sad, actually.

 

QUOTE]Jeff: NHL.com's front page poll is for Coach of the year, Murray is way out in front with 51% of the vote (Quinn & Sutter next with 12%) Quite right I'd say.

 

You have to go with Andy Murray. I've been saying he's the best coach in the league for years. Glad everyone's with me now.

 

So what about the potential rule changes then? Good/bad/stupid/brilliant? Wodya think?

Man, I'm going to dedicate a new post to that topic when I have time for it.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Fat Chance:

Jeff

What was the deal with Cechmanek behind the net last night

 

I feel for ya Jeff,I had deal with him for three years when he was a Flyer.

Well, you know Roman. He's on fire or he's letting in goals that your Mom could stop. Wide swing of the inconsistency pendulum. the Kings have a capable backup with Cristobal Huet, but we need some really solid production from Cechmanek down the stretch if we hope to squeeze into the playoffs somehow.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Ouch!

 

Roenick shattered his jaw in the Flyers/Rangers game tonight. It's not pretty. He was unconscious for a full minute.

 

- Jeff

[Fat Chance]

This really sucks

 

http://nhl.com/onthefly/news/2004/02/203606.html

 

JR is a tough guy,hopefully he can be back by the playoffs

 

Peace

Rob

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Now he's mentioning retirement.

 

ESPN Report

 

Bobby Clarke is being such an idiot, telling the press that "that's just Roenick's emotions talking" and that he'd probably be back this season. But Roenick is saying this is his ninth concussion and he's experiencing bad side effects.

 

It'd be a shame to have Roenick be gone so suddenly, but he knows what's best for his health. Not Clarke.

 

- Jeff

[Mike Dawson]

That's a shame about Roenick. He really is a tough SOB though. I dropped an ice hockey puck on my toe once. It split a nail and bled pretty badly so I stayed home from school and didn't move my foot all day. Roenick gets clocked in the face with a puck and minutes later he's waving to the crowd on his way off the ice. I guess this year it won't be suspect goaltending that keeps the Flyers out of the finals...

 

If Clark is so tough maybe he should lace his skates up and get back on the ice. Or let Roenick take a slap shot at his head and see how long it is before Bobby is back in the owner's box.

[Joe Tee]

Good Luck to Joel Quenneville....a fantastic coach.. one I'm sure won't be spending much time unemployed. What great regular season runs...just had problems pulling it together come playoff time.

 

Hopefully the players will respond to their new coach and play like they did earlier in the season! GO BLUES!

[coyote]

Some games get delayed 90 minutes by bad ice. I've noticed I tend to drink more beer at those games

[Fat Chance]

Wings get Robert Lang.Like they need alot of help

 

Who do you guys think have the best blue line defense?Avs? Wings?Ottawa?

 

Rob

[Fat Chance]

I was at the Flyers/Sens game last or I should say"Friday night at the fights" 419 penalty minutes That's a new NHL record. Even the the goalies went at it. Old school hockey was back in Philly tonight

 

Peace

Rob

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

DUDE! I watched the recap on ESPN. I've never seen a scrum like that in my life. Who do you think won between Lalime and Esche?

 

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nhl/2004/0305/photo/a_lalime_ft.jpg

 

They look like they're having fun. How many goalie fights do you get to see? There's one every three or four years, max. I remember Osgood getting into a couple good ones.

 

- Jeff

[Fat Chance]

Who do you think won between Lalime and Esche?

 

It was close but I have to go with Esche

 

Lots of scrums in the Avs/Flames game too.

Peter Worrell is a monster.

 

Can't wait for Flyers/Sens rematch on April 2

 

Peace

Rob

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

My Kings are still hanging tenuously to 8th place in the West. Yup, the last playoff spot. And we still have 15 games left...anything could happen.

 

GO KINGS

 

- Jeff

[Postman]

Wow, Steve Moore has a broken neck!

 

Jeez, Bertuzzi's lucky if he plays again this year. Personally, I don't think he meant to hurt Moore that badly. Still, this is the second time in his career he's totally lost it. That doesn't bode well for him. It's a shame, because Bertuzzi is a really good player, but at 6'3", 245 lbs, if he can't control temper, I'm afraid I'd have to support his ouster from the league.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Kings picked up Anson Carter from the Caps! Sweeeeeet!

 

- Jeff

[Red Winger]

Originally posted by Postman:

Wow, Steve Moore has a broken neck!

 

Jeez, Bertuzzi's lucky if he plays again this year. Personally, I don't think he meant to hurt Moore that badly. Still, this is the second time in his career he's totally lost it. That doesn't bode well for him. It's a shame, because Bertuzzi is a really good player, but at 6'3", 245 lbs, if he can't control temper, I'm afraid I'd have to support his ouster from the league.

I think he's in big trouble. Did you see how he was chasing Moore down? He looked like a circling shark before he took the cheap shot to the back of the head. Bad deal.

 

I'm all for a little rough stuff in the rink...hey, if you ain't checkin', you aint' playin'...but that was really awful to watch.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Bertuzzi really screwed up, and he knows it. Unlike the goons of the NHL (past and present), he's one of those guys that plays very physically (and aggressively) but fairly, for the most part. I think he just got hyped up in the heat of the moment.

 

But yeah, he's in some serious shit. They're talking about a year suspension (we find out tomorrow), and the law is involved too.

 

Not good for Canuck fans. Or poor Steve Moore for that matter. Here's wishing him well. Broken necks are just not good.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Bertuzzi ruling this morning: out for the remainder of this season and the playoffs. They'll re-evaluate his suspension at the beginning of next season based on Moore's recovery.

 

While Bertuzzi seems honestly remorseful and genuinely sorry for what happened, I don't think the suspension is enough. Obviously, it hurts his team, it hurts him (he's out at least a half mil for the missed games, probably more with playoff bonuses and so on, and the team was penalized another $250,000) and so on. But that doesn't fix Moore's broken neck.

 

- Jeff

[SFOracle]

I think the Bertuzzi suspension is pretty much fair. His attack on Moore was stupid and undisciplined and he deserves a lengthy suspension. As the league decided to review his status prior to training camp (considering such things as Moore's recovery) there is a good chance his suspension may continue into next year (assuming there is no lockout/strike).

 

I'm a huge Canucks fan, and this is definitely going to hurt their playoffs, but it is more important that the league send a message. Trevor Linden probably said it best right after the Naslund incident. He said there is no respect in the league anymore; players do things to hurt each other. I also think that Bertuzzi has been less dominating and more undisciplined this year than the last 2 years. Hopefully this will get his attention. He is not a Marty McSorley type of player - he shouldn't act like one.

 

I also think both Marc Crawford, Tony Granato and the on ice officials have some share in what happened. With Moore's cheapshot on Naslund that put him out for 3 games as a backdrop, in the third period of a 7-2 (at the time) blowout neither coach did anything to calm things down. Crawford had Wade Brookebank on the ice, Granato had Peter Worrell on the ice much of the third period.

[Red Winger]

I agree completely with Jeff. So, if Moore recovers fine, that's all he gets for breaking someone's neck? Particularly given the way that all came down, where Bertruzzi was hounding Moore around the ice, that's sort of like saying, well, you stalked your victim and fired a gun at them, but, since they made a full recovery, we'll just give you probation.

 

The good news is that it sounds like Moore is going to be fine (although he won't be any help to the Avalanche for the rest of this season....not that I'm totally upset about that fact, mind you -- particularly given that my Wings only have 1 point on the Avs at the moment). I also was glad to see that Bertruzzi is very upset and remorseful about his actions (as he should be). However, I really think the League needs to be pretty harsh on him. This wasn't the case of a simple check gone awry. This was a situation where, separate from any legitimate part of the game, a guy intentionally went after another guy and sucker punched him from behind. I'm sure he didn't mean to cause injuries to the extent that he did, but he did intend to hurt Moore at least to the extent of a normal punch to the head.

 

End of rant.

 

On to other topics: Cujo's back tonight.

[Llarion]

I'm not a big hockey fan, but I wanted to weigh in on a couple of things:

 

1) I'm really glad the Lightning are doing so well... the town is abuzz here like back in 97 when the Bucs suddenly got good... Unbeaten in 11 games, peaking going into the playoffs. Looks like a good thing.

 

2) Bertuzzi should face assault charges at the VERY least, if not attempted manslaughter, and he should be suspended at the very least until Moore's neck heals completely and he is cleared to play, or whem Moore himself says he can play; and Bertuzzi should pick up Moore's medical bills completely. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind barbarism. I too don't mind good clean, physical play, but why fighting is allowed at all in the hockey rink is utterly beyond me. Where else can you commit legal assault and battery outside the boxing and martial arts rings? Look at the NFL; they are busting ass all over the place, but as soon as someone throws a punch, the consequenses escalate sharply. Throw a punch, and you get a steep fine and/or suspension usually. The NFL even levies fines on hits that fall within the boundaries of the rules. Warren Sapp should have been fined in 2002 for the blindside leveling of that Green Bay player. Baseball is even stricter. The refs in the NHL just sort of steer clear of fights till it gets truly ugly. It's like there's some bizarre fighting etiquette or something; you can punch toe to toe all you want, gloves off, but whatever you do, don't tackle them, or hit them from behind. Right, that makes sense. I can certainly understand and agree with the need to have enforcers to protect the little skill players; I mean the Bolts' Martin St. Louis is teeny, but protection shoudl be should be through good checking, NOT punching. A good clean blistering check into the boards can send a solid message just as well as a punch.

 

That guy Marty McSorley who hauled off and whacked the guy in the head with his stick in 2000? He got off on a suspended sentence (18 month conditional discharge)? I'm sorry, that should have been assault with a deadly weapon and 3-5 in medium security.

 

There, I said it. I'm certain that you true fans that understand the game far better than I can give me some cogent, logical reasoning that justifies the fighting that goes on in the league, outside the lame "ratings" argument. I'd like to hear it, honestly.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Llarion:

There, I said it. I'm certain that you true fans that understand the game far better than I can give me some cogent, logical reasoning that justifies the fighting that goes on in the league, outside the lame "ratings" argument. I'd like to hear it, honestly.

Well, first, congrats on the Lightning's recent performance. They are the first team to have officially secured a playoff spot this season, and I'm sure a lot of folks in the greater Tampa area have sore arms from having jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Now...fighting in hockey...

 

A lot of folks with perspectives both inside and outside the game feel the same as you, Phil. And I, a hockey fan for more than 20 years, have mixed feelings that are also represented both by players and fans.

 

I won't go into a big dissertation on this. One viewpoint opposing to yours uses European hockey as the example. Fighting is extremely rare over there, but dirty stickwork (slashes, holds, viscious pokes) is more prevalent than here. The reason, according to the players, is that the guys know they can get away with that and there will be no retribution.

 

Hockey is the only major team sport where a large weapon-like sharp blade is used as part of the sport. Obviously, hits in football are brutal, and a 95mph fastball throw at your head can kill you dead. But those who are proponents of continuing the current rules that relate to fighting (most players, by the way, are in this group) say that the self-policing aspect of the current system makes the game cleaner, if you can understand that.

 

Other folks say, quite understandably, that the fighting is barbaric and that the league keeps the rules status quo because a stupid but significant portion of the fan base really enjoys the fighting, feeling it's one of the more entertaining parts of the game.

 

At the end of the day, all pro sports are about entertainment, and the sponsorship money based on the number of people who are entertained that represent a certain demographic. So, it's unlikely that the NHL will make big changes in this regard.

 

My love of hockey comes from the finesse and incredible talent of the game itself. Fights can be boring and slow the flow of the game. However, like anyone, there are aspects to it that are fun, especially when one is aware of the backstory ("Oooh! Domi just annihilated Blake...must have been about that hip check he put on Mogilny in the first period.").

 

- Jeff

[Llarion]

So, it sounds to me that it is in fact that those who are presenting this form of entertainment are tacitly happy to indulge the baser instincts of their audience. Which to me, lowers hockey to nothing more than the WWF with better organizaiton and legitimate sanctioning. Even worse, because the violence is real. Boxing with better uniforms. It is truly sad, because I have watched Wayne Gretzky perform absolute magic on the ice, and been amazed by his transcendant skill; the sport could be an art form if it were played cleanly. It's not fair to those who work their whole lives to develop skill at the sport only to have it sullied by thugs, and it's not fair to fans who love the game for the game to have to endure the violence just to watch it.

 

One wonders what kind of person you have to train yourself to be that you could routinely commit what would be assault and battery off the ice, and think nothing of it that "part of the job, part of the entertainment".

 

And who are we that we watch it? It's the same instinct in people that brings "race fans" to the track who just want to see the crashes, and the same people who watch the OJ trial, would watch executions, and voluntarily watch the last Donny and Marie talk show.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure that there is a very high percentage of fans that love the game for the skills and the competition, but the fact that there are many that watch just for the fights, and that the league willfully caters to them by allowing it that disgusts me and makes it so I could never be a fan, the Lightning's recent successes notwithstanding. (don't bandwagon fans suck? )

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I agree with everything you wrote. Everything.

 

The culture of hockey has been brutal since day one. This isn't a new phenomenon. And please don't think I'm defending it. I'm not.

 

I suppose my point is that fighting, as barbaric and stupid as it seems, is so ingrained as part of the game that it would be a really tough prospect to eliminate it. And yes, much like high-speed chases, there is an element of the populace who gets off on the gladiator colessium aspect. So, the NHL does act like the WWF in this regard. that's the pat that I do indeed find bothersome.

 

It's been stated many times that eventually, someone is going to be killed on the ice. It hasn't happened before, but it's a given. Perhaps then and only then, a real re-evaluation of the sport can be accomplished.

 

- Jeff

[Llarion]

And that is the saddest fact yet; that it is going to have to take someone getting killed before any serious adjustments are made. They are willing to let it go that far.

 

And to make matters worse, when it happens, the same lot that are there to watch the fights will be the first to scream for the offender's head on a plate.

 

Give us Barrabas...

 

Ah well. I suppose if people really wanted to change it, they could vote with their wallets, but you don't see that happening.

 

Carry on, I just wanted to state my case; I'm glad this board is here, I can always count on adult reactions to controversial topics.

[Postman]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

The culture of hockey has been brutal since day one. This isn't a new phenomenon. And please don't think I'm defending it. I'm not.

Well, I don't agree. Hockey isn't any more brutal than football, rugby, Aussie rules or lax. As a matter of fact, it's debilitating injury rate is much lower than football's or rugby's, not that I view either of those sports as being inherently inferior than any other because of it. It's just unfortunate.

 

Hockey unlike any other sport allows and even encourages the attempted intimidation of an opponent. There are elements of it in other sports (any receiver asked to go over the middle can attest to that), but only in hockey is it a part at a fundamental level. If you can scare your opponent with a big hit or maybe some pushing and shoving, then he won't go into the corner to get a puck with as much gusto as he would have otherwise. It's a huge advantage and one which I enjoyed from time to time when I was playing (and suffered from, too, yes). The scrums that form around goals and along the boards after whistles are all about trying to get the other team's player's to think twice before taking control of the puck.

 

It extends to other parts of the game. For instance, the blocking of slap shots. Let me tell you, folks, it hurts to catch a slapshot off your ankle or foot, and the guy shooting the puck knows it. He wants you to shy away. It gives him an open shot at the net.

 

[baseball used to have an element of this, too. The brush back pitch (or the high inside pitch if you prefer) had only one aim: to intimidate the batter. Now that they allow batters to wear armor and charge the mound that's no longer a part of the game. That's a pity if you ask me. I like to see both outlawed. Let's see some guts from the batters. But I digress.]

 

Fighting is the ultimate expression of this concept. It has nothing to do with trying to really hurt your opponent. Rather it's a way of itimidating the opposing team at a visceral level. If you've never fought as part of a sport, take it from me, losing has a dramatic effect on your ego. Think: dog with tail between legs. The outcome of a fight can have a dramatic effect on the ensuing level of play for a whole team.

 

Many people find itimidation distasteful. Ok, fine, no one's forcing you to watch. I love that aspect of the game. Yes, I've experienced both sides. It's great fun and harmless for the most part. Are you man enough to come down my side of the ice, to stand in front of my goal? Prove it.

 

Violence is completely different matter, though. Just as a pitcher who throws a bean ball ought to be suspended for a goodly period of time, a hockey player ought to be suspended for just as long a period for using his stick as a weapon (which the NHL did in the case of McSorely) or for sucker punches. You can intimidate an opponent perfectly well without resorting to maiming him. Besides, it takes all the fun out of the game.

 

One thing more to consider. Hockey is filled with opportunities to seriously injure an opposing player from spearing and butt ending, to slashes and cross checks to the head, to checks from behind into the boards, to really nasty stuff like putting someone's eye out with a stick. The fact of the matter is that it almost never happens. If hockey players are such thugs, why don't we see stuff like this more often?

 

Hockey is my favorite sport (well, it's kind of a tie with football). Bertuzzi's on the top of every hockey fan's shit list. What he did wasn't part of the sport.

 

[by the way, someone has already died from a hit taken in an NHL game. Back in the sixties a guy named Green got caught with a hip check and fractured his skull. He died a few days later in the hospital. For that matter, Scotty Bowman was very nearly killed.]

[Geoff Grace]

There's been almost two weeks of silence in this thread in the wake of what happened, so I thought maybe people here could use a shift to something a little lighter...

 

I thought this was funny when I saw it on TV, so I found it on the web to share with the forum:

 

Posted by the San Francisco Chronicle :

Check out this take from the esteemed NBC show, "West Wing," as spoken by Tim Matheson as Vice President: "I think Americans like to savor situations. 'One down, bottom of the ninth, one-run game, first and third, left-handed batter, right-hand reliever, infield at double-play depth, here's the pitch.' Scoring in hockey seems to come out of nowhere. The play-by-play guy is always shocked.

 

'Lepettier passes to Huckenshuck, who skates past the blue line . . . Huckenshuck, of course, traded from Winnepeg for a case of Labatt's after sitting out last season with OH MY GOD, HE SCORES!' "

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Well, the reason I've been silent in this thread is that my L.A. Kings are all but out of the playoffs. They'll be mathematically out within two more days unless the 7, 8 and 9 seed all lose every one of their remaining games and the Kings win each of them. That's not going to happen, which will save me the heartache of being blown out in five games by the Wings in round one.

 

Still, a great effort despite having more money sitting on the bench (or the rehab ward0 than on the ice. I say Andy Murray is absolutely coach of the year.

 

Now I have to adopt a team for the playoffs. I'll let you know who it is when I figure it out.

 

- Jeff

[SFOracle]

Hockey is by far my favorite sport. I grew up playing it and watching it - I've been a Canucks fan since they entered the league - so I've had to put up with some pretty mediocre hockey in my lifetime.

 

The Bertuzzi attack on Steve Moore really rerailed the Canucks. Todd's suspension was deserved;he won't play again this season. I'll credit Brian Burke for going out and picking up Geoff Sanderson and Martin Ruscinski. They don't make up for Todd Bertuzzi's offensive or physical presense on the ice, gut they are fast skilled players who will help.

 

I know Bertuzzi will remember this. For most of his career he has been a pretty classy player. This year however he has been extremely undisciplined and far from the dominating player he was last year. It seems this year that every time the Canucks get a power play, Bertuzzi takes a stupid penalty.

 

Steve Moore had his first press conference yesterday - reading between the lines it looks like he will probably sue Bertuzzi and probably the Canucks. I don't think the criminal charges will stick, but who knows.

 

It also looks like the Canucks have got themselves back on track. Last night they destroyed Phoenix. It looks like Naslund has finally broken out of his scoring slump (he got a goal and an assist last night). He has been suffering from a hyperextended elbow since Steve Moore knocked him out last month. Looks like he finally got his wrist shot back. Ruscinski had about a dozen quality chances as well but didn't score. The Sanderson - Sedin - Sedin line is looking really dangerous as well.

 

The Canucks still have a chance to win the division - they are now 1 point behind Colorado. I really don't think they want to face either San Jose or Dallas in the first round.