schmoron13 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I was reading the keyboard mag with Wyclef on the cover and he talked about doing his drums with an mpc 60. Truth be told, I've never actually tried to assemble a loop with the mpc series. How does it work? do you hit the pads with your fingers, or can you use sticks to get a better feel? Also, that had me thinking: what do you all do for drums? I used to do the parts through my controller (pc88mx) but it doesn't feel quite right, and the pc88 sounds are just horrible for that. Now I mainly program the beats in reason, but it's not conducive to getting a "live feel." Hence, I thought if the mpc series is kind of like the roland v-drums (in a bite sized package )then it'd be perfect. Also, if I mainly just want it for a drum sequencer (I record into sonar 2.2xl), is it worth to go with the new big boys (3000,4000,etc) or should I see if I can find an mpc 60 for under a 1000 online (ebay, craigslist,etc.)? any suggestings? -doron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addix Metzatricity Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I use Reason and a cheap-o Yamaha Midi Drum thing from the 80's. The onboard speaker doesn't work anymore, and I have to play around to figure out which pad is sending which pitch, but it works for me. It came with sticks. "Bass isn't just for breakfast anymore..." http://www.mp3.com/Addix_Metzatricity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I play drums on my K2600's keys using a sustain pedal for the bass drum. I find that while it does give me a more "live" feel, it's hard on my fingers. I guess I hit the keys harder when drumming. The joints in my right index finger (which I use to play the high hat) tighten up noticeably after a half hour or so. Also, the sustain pedal isn't velocity sensitive, of course, so the bass drum sounds very constant. To tell the truth, though, I'm not a good enough drummer to have that bother me. The sound is as good as any sampled drum sound. Not as good as live but adequate. I've been using a Key Solutions drumset lately. I like it. I'm hoping to scrape up enough cash to buy a Roland SPD-20 at some point. I've looked on ebay. A good used one runs about $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by Postman: I'm hoping to scrape up enough cash to buy a Roland SPD-20 at some point. I've looked on ebay. A good used one runs about $400.I've got an SPD-11 that I never use, which I'd be glad to sell you if you're interested. I've got the hi-hat pedal for it as well. You should be able to peel the Raiders sticker off it pretty easily... PM me if you're interested. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Akai has the MPD16 which has 16 velocity and aftertouch-sensitive pads that can be connected with MIDI or USB. The pads are like the ones on the MPC-series, but it's just a controller so it makes no sounds by itself. $220 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by schmoron13: I was reading the keyboard mag with Wyclef on the cover and he talked about doing his drums with an mpc 60. Truth be told, I've never actually tried to assemble a loop with the mpc series. How does it work? do you hit the pads with your fingers, or can you use sticks to get a better feel?While you COULD hit the pads with sticks, I would highly recommend against it, especially considering the price of MPC's these days. Seriously, you'd be better off with a drum pad input device like the Roland SPD series or the KAT products if you want to use sticks. I have found, however, that drumming with your fingers on pads is VERY expressive if you have the right sounds and a bit of technique. Also, that had me thinking: what do you all do for drums? I used to do the parts through my controller (pc88mx) but it doesn't feel quite right, I think the problem you are having concerns the weighted keys. Piano action keys are extremely difficult to use when sequencing percussion parts. They don't "spring back" quickly, and the intertial resistance of a weighted key makes it hard to play subtle parts. If you have a synth action keyboard anywhere, you should give that a try. Now I mainly program the beats in reason, but it's not conducive to getting a "live feel." Hence, I thought if the mpc series is kind of like the roland v-drums (in a bite sized package )then it'd be perfect. Also, if I mainly just want it for a drum sequencer (I record into sonar 2.2xl), is it worth to go with the new big boys (3000,4000,etc) or should I see if I can find an mpc 60 for under a 1000 online (ebay, craigslist,etc.)? If you are really just going to use it as a drum sequencer into another program, any MPC is a colossal waste of money. I'd recommend this Akai MPD16 instead. The MPC is not a mini-V-drum. For your purposes, having a drumpad controller, unweighted synth action keyboard, or the Akai MPD thing that I linked to above, would probably serve you well. One of those combined with Reason doing realtime sequencing, and you basically have the MPC with a much kludgier UI and without the MPC's legendary (or mythical, depending on who you talk to) "groove". "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 the mpd looks mighty tempting but it's brought on a new question: since I use sonar 2.2xl, and it's got cyclone, do the two work through rewire? I assume since it's just a controller, sonar would use it fine, but just wanted to cover my basses.. also, for the mpc series, why do people still use it? I know for it's price, it's a good sequencer, but in reference to someone like wyclef, a pro tools user, is it just that he feels comfortable on it? also, how exactly do the mpc's work (not schematics, but workflow)...always wondered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 This was a big issue for me. After being a drummer for years I never liked playing parts in using a keyboard. Here are a few things I have that you might consider. Roland DR-660. It has been upgraded to the 770 but if you find a used 660 in good shape, that is all you need. This works ok and they can be found used very cheap. No one uses them as a sound source anymore but thanks to VSTi's like Battery they have found new life as controllers for those wanting to play in drum parts using pads. Roland SP-11. This has been upgraded to the SP-20. Again, if you only need it as a controller just go for what ever you happen to find used in good shape. I built mine into a full kit with bass drum, hi-hat, and two extra pads. I have since added a TD-8 and PD120 V-Drum pad so I can get a realistic feeling snare. If you are a drummer and want to get your parts into MIDI then an SP-11 is the minimal acceptable solution. If you have never played drums then stick to something that can be played with fingers or hands. Roland Handsonic - You can use hands, fingers or sticks with this unit making it very flexible. It also has jacks for a drum trigger and hi-hat control pedal. This is a good all-around solution for small space and variable playing methods. Emu XL-7 - This is my all around do everything control box. It has 13 pads laid out in a keyboard octave that can be used to play in drum parts. The pads even have aftertouch. It also has a bank of 16 buttons/triggers for 808 style programming. Last of all, there is a set of 16 assignable knobs that can be used to edit soft synths. All this plus a 128 polyphony sound source and they can be found new for $500. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I'll second the Roland Handsonic. Although I don't own one, I play it in the stores practically every time I'm there. The problem, and the reason I don't own one, is the price ... about $1000. I use the pads on the Fantom S which, although not as good as full size MPC style pads, have worked out great. I generally keep them on a fixed velocity and edit velocities after the fact (or use the keyboard to trigger sounds if I want to program at multiple velocities on the first pass). The recent OS update fixes some response problems, I believe, but I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. If it's good, I'll probably use the pads instead of the keyboard most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDM Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Originally posted by Postman: I'm hoping to scrape up enough cash to buy a Roland SPD-20 at some point. I've looked on ebay. A good used one runs about $400.I've got an SPD-11 that I never use, which I'd be glad to sell you if you're interested. I've got the hi-hat pedal for it as well. You should be able to peel the Raiders sticker off it pretty easily... PM me if you're interested. dBYou are a good man Dave. I'll second the recommendation from Rabid for the SPD-11. I use one and love it. I call it SPUD. While I am not a drummer I find that enhancing my drum programming with played parts really makes a huge difference in the final production. I tend to use it often with various ReDrum kits I have set up in Reason that are just hi-hats or snares. It can take a static sounding loop or programmed part and really open it up. Failing using a real drummer, enhancement is by far the best solution for getting relatively natural and non-fatiguing rhythm accompaniment I know of. - DJDM DJDM.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincepro Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 also, for the mpc series, why do people still use it? I know for it's price, it's a good sequencer, but in reference to someone like wyclef, a pro tools user, is it just that he feels comfortable on it? also, how exactly do the mpc's work (not schematics, but workflow)...always wondered Because these machines are INCREDIBLE. They are especially huge in the commercial rap,r&b, hiphop, and pop music studios. The thing that makes em incredible is the way they are designed to be used. Musicians these days don't pay attention to the design of an instrument anymore. They think as long as I can reach this objective, it doesn't matter where the buttons are, what the workflow will be like, etc..I'll just buy this piece of software and do the same thing because it sequences and samples and that's what a MPC does. A good analogy would be like having a piano that has notes scattered out of order and keys with different widths. If you learned it, you could still play it, but it doesn't flow like a real piano. So you see, to answer your question, that is why people will pay money for MPCs. They are rock solid, a dream to work with, and just have that "feel" that makes you want to write music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 thanks vincepro for the "why" but I'm really curious as to how someone uses it. I really know NOTHING about them. WHat I meant by workflow is: do people generaly set a click track (metronome) and then play a 4 bar phrase with a couple of th ebuttons (say a bass drum and snare) and then start layering extra beats, and then move on to bass, pads, etc? when I read articles that say Dre comes in, programs some beats and everyone continues vibing, what does he program? a short loop, the whole song a la acid or reason? I really am CLUELESS, but would love to learn more about them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 It's all MIDI for me. I program patterns note by note into Logic, then do editing of note lengths and velocity values until it has the right feel. This is a lot like using the FEEL settings on an MPC, but with more control over each note. I also use barely audible "ghost" notes to add some intangible feel. This all takes a while, but I like the results. I hate mechanical sounding drum tracks. I never use any loops. Ever. I can't edit someone else's music and pretend that it's my own. I have to start from scratch. Lately, I've been using a Triton for the drum sounds, but I'm starting to mix in sounds from the EXS24 and Kontakt. Kontakt has some great sounding kits. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Maybe my poor technique is the problem, but I get best results drawing patterns into Logic's matrix editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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