Slowly Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: Originally posted by Kcbass: What's the serial number on it? 01029. Why do you want to know that? dBSeen a few low serial number units with quirks in it. The Korg CX3's below serial number 400 had double-trigger bugs. The on-line updates fried some CX3's. I'm working hard to get the new Motif by my birthday in October. Matter of fact, I should be on my way to work soon. If there is any bugs or workarounds please let us know. This purschase will be a speed bump in the bliss enjoyed here at home. When I told my wife I was saving up to get one for my birthday, she replied' " What you gonna get me?" Without thinking I quipped, " I'm not gonna get you anything for my birthday!" Yo! There were only about 8000 other things I could have said just then. Leaving out some minor details, I don't want to hear 'I told you so'. Kcbass "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortenJ Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I am going to buy a MOTIF ES 6 soon but I also have Yamaha CS6x I think I am going to sell. Morten Access Virus TI keyboard,Alesis ION,Yamaha Motif ES 6,Roland Fantom XR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 So when are you going to buy Denmark? http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 What is the latest word on pricing? I have heard two different prices. One was the same as the current Motif, the second was quite a bit higher. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Retail price is $100 more. -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: Retail price is $100 more.Thanks Mike. That is not bad at all for the extras that are being packed in. My hard decision is do I get a Motif 6 ES not long after they come out, do I save up for a Motif 8 ES, or do I hold out in hopes that a rack version is released in the near future? I would prefer the 88 note version, but it makes more economic sense for me to buy the 61 note version and sit it on top of my Fatar SL990. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Sounds like a beautiful work, from a company that is very musical in their approach to electronic music-making. Dave, if you still have the S90 around, are there any either identical or similar patches on both that you can compare, to clarify where the sonic differences are coming from due to improvements in the hardware and software, and where they're coming from due to fresh, new, brilliant, detailed and subtle patch design? Tell us a little bit about how well the sampling is integrated with the rest of the keyboard. It's a shame the A4000 and A5000 are discontinued, IMHO. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by realtrance: Dave, if you still have the S90 around, are there any either identical or similar patches on both that you can compare, to clarify where the sonic differences are coming from due to improvements in the hardware and software, and where they're coming from due to fresh, new, brilliant, detailed and subtle patch design? Yes, the S90 is still here. I've compared some like sounds (not the piano, 'cause it just ain't fair). Mainly, a few acoustic sounds (guitars, rhodes, organs, etc.) and some synth stuff (basses, leads, pads), and I think the difference in the filters is really quite noticeable. The ES's filters are much smoother sounding to me. I actually didn't love the filters on the S90 - they were a little harsh sounding to my ears. I was having trouble getting some of the synth-type sounds I wanted out of it. Tell us a little bit about how well the sampling is integrated with the rest of the keyboard. It's a shame the A4000 and A5000 are discontinued, IMHO.Oh, if I get to that, it'll be one of the last things I check out. I don't do a lot with samplers - it just ain't my thing. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Understood (I'm the same way re: sampling, just have an itch to read about the possibility that some day it will be what I consider "fun." ). Not surprising to hear about the improved filters; Yamaha's always had a good hold on software digital filter design (though not like Waldorf, still the kings in this area, IMHO). Anyways, glad to hear any and all good news about the Motif line; Yamaha deserves to win big with it. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Yeah, so what! I just got an Evolution MK225C, AND I haven't even plugged it in yet! Beat that, man! What we record in life, echoes in eternity. MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XSr, PEKPER, Voyager, Univox MiniKorg. https://www.abandoned-film.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 With the exception of higher quality piano and rhodes sounds, I see no advantage to buying the Motif (classic or ES) over a Triton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 No advantage? Here are just a few. 128 notes of polyphony (expandable with PLG cards) vs. 62/62 175MB of ROM vs. 48MB Up to 512MB of sample memory (DIMMs) vs 96MB (SIMMs) 8 dual inserts, 2 Systems, 1 Master effect vs 5 Inserts and 2 System effects 16 three band part EQs, 1 Five Band Master EQ vs 1 Three Band Master EQ. Yes the Triton Studio does come with CD-Recorder and an internal hard disk, but for the $1,050 retail price difference you can buy a stand alone recorder (AW16G) or a computer. Perhaps you should wait and reserve judgement until you play it. -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: No advantage? Here are just a few. 128 notes of polyphony (expandable with PLG cards) vs. 62/62 175MB of ROM vs. 48MB Up to 512MB of sample memory (DIMMs) vs 96MB (SIMMs) 8 dual inserts, 2 Systems, 1 Master effect vs 5 Inserts and 2 System effects 16 three band part EQs, 1 Five Band Master EQ vs 1 Three Band Master EQ. Yes the Triton Studio does come with CD-Recorder and an internal hard disk, but for the $1,050 retail price difference you can buy a stand alone recorder (AW16G) or a computer. Perhaps you should wait and reserve judgement until you play it.So does the MOTIF ES replace the original MOTIF or will they both be offered at the same time? This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 The original Motif 6 will stay in the product line. The Motif 7 and Motif 8 are discontinued. So now there are four keyboard models - Motif 6 Motif ES 6 Motif ES 7 Motif ES 8 -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: No advantage? Here are just a few. 128 notes of polyphony (expandable with PLG cards) vs. 62/62 175MB of ROM vs. 48MB Up to 512MB of sample memory (DIMMs) vs 96MB (SIMMs) 8 dual inserts, 2 Systems, 1 Master effect vs 5 Inserts and 2 System effects 16 three band part EQs, 1 Five Band Master EQ vs 1 Three Band Master EQ. Yes the Triton Studio does come with CD-Recorder and an internal hard disk, but for the $1,050 retail price difference you can buy a stand alone recorder (AW16G) or a computer. Perhaps you should wait and reserve judgement until you play it.All of these features become moot when the OS is cryptic and difficult to use, and doesn't inspire nor is conductive to creativity. Unless the ES OS has seen a complete overhaul, my mind won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 There have been threads on this topic, here are my 2 cents - First of all its not difficult, its just different. There are a lot of things in the Motif that are different than other manufacturers. There is logic behind the interface and it is VERY fast once you get used to it. I'm new at Yamaha and it took some adjusting, but its a quick transistion. Unlike Korg, Yamaha has not had very much consistancy from product to product. If you've used a Korg M1 for example you'll have no problem using any Korg product up to a Trinity. More adjustment is neccessary with the Triton but many of the concepts are the same (they're just in different places). With the S90, Motif and now Motif ES, Yamaha for the first time (since SY77 and SY99) has had some consistancy in their interfaces. If you've used any of those products you'll find the ES very easy. We'll be doing dozens of clinics in the upcoming months. I welcome you to attend one and bring up the "cryptic/difficult" issues with the clinician. Perhaps you'll realize that its not as difficult as you may have initially thought. If there is a specific issue that you find difficult, I'd love to know what it is. -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: 175MB of ROM vs. 48MB Sounds as though the ES has some great advantages, but I'd be cafeful about this one. Yamaha's ads suggest that the 175MB figure is extrapolated. Apparently, some data compression algorithm is used to store the sounds (i.e. not linear). IIRC, the Triton's samples are 16-bit linear, 48 kHz samples, no data compression. That said, I'll be the first to admit that raw sample quality is lacking in some areas of the Triton family. The effects give it a polished sound. The ES has more effects, which is a big bonus. I'm anxious to try an ES when they become available. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski 1642606170 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 For whatever it's worth, I have to side with Mike on the OS issue. I own many other Yamaha synths, and yet when I got my Motif 8, yes... it was quite different from all the rest. However, I found it to be very intuitive. I didn't have a hard time figuring out all the basics at all. I think that Voice Edit mode, in particular, is very nicely done, and very fast to navigate. Would I like to have a big color LCD on my Motif (and my EX5, A5000, FS1R, DX7IIFD, etc.) like the higher end Tritons and Fantoms? Sure! Is is necessary? Not really. Would I be willing to pay extra money for the big display? That's a tougher question, but probably not. In any case, the computer based editors/librarians are better than ANY synth's LCD screen, anyway! To address Jeeebus's comments... I think that the Motif clearly has better raw samples - both in quality AND quantity - than any synth on the market. Hands down. Turn the effects off, go listen carefully, and let your ears be the judge. Ski www.ex5tech.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricG Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Mine is ordered, yiiiiaaahaaa!!! I hope to have it in a month from now. (My old Motif 8 is sold too... So I am all ready). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricG Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Mine is ordered, yiiiiaaammmaahaaa!!! I hope to have it in a month from now. (My old Motif 8 is sold too... So I am all ready). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I'd be cafeful about this one. Yamaha's ads suggest that the 175MB figure is extrapolated. Apparently, some data compression algorithm is used to store the sounds (i.e. not linear).No reason to be careful. Roland, Kurzweil and Yamaha all use one kind of data compression or another. -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELP71 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: I've compared some like sounds (not the piano, 'cause it just ain't fair). How come??? Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcity Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: The original Motif 6 will stay in the product line. The Motif 7 and Motif 8 are discontinued. So now there are four keyboard models - Motif 6 Motif ES 6 Motif ES 7 Motif ES 8Mike, This doesn't mean that I'm gonna have a hard time getting rid of my Motif 7? Yamaha MODX8, Korg Kronos 2 61, Hammond B3, Novation 61SL MKII, Impulse 61, Roland D-550, Proteus 2000, etc......to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcity Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Hey Dave, what about the strings and brass?? Do they sound richer and fuller? My fingers are crossed, but with 512megs of ram, it really doesn't matter that much! Yamaha MODX8, Korg Kronos 2 61, Hammond B3, Novation 61SL MKII, Impulse 61, Roland D-550, Proteus 2000, etc......to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I've got right of first refusal on the first one that hits Seattle. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by burningbusch: I've got right of first refusal on the first one that hits Seattle. Busch.Oh yeah! Kcbass "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by Mike Martin: No reason to be careful. Roland, Kurzweil and Yamaha all use one kind of data compression or another.I've never fully understood what compression means in this context. I'm not arguing that all the manufacturers do it, that seems to be true. I know two definitions for compression: There's PKZip-style compression, which is lossless after it's uncompressed. Then there's MP3-style compression, which is lossy. The compression used in ROMplers - which kind is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 realtrance said: It's a shame the A4000 and A5000 are discontinued, IMHO.I agree 100%...I am really enjoying my A5000...something I never thought I would ever say again about any hardware sampler. realtrance said: Not surprising to hear about the improved filters; Yamaha's always had a good hold on software digital filter designHmm...I dunno if I would call smoother filters an improvement, actually...part of the reason I like the filters in the A5000 is because they have some edge and bite when you want them to. That said, I know in the Motifs and RS7K you have options for digital and analog flavors of the same pole-count...which is nice. realtrance said: (though not like Waldorf, still the kings in this area, IMHO).If we are speaking of the MicroWave II/XT/XTk, I agree...I love those filters...but as it regards the Q, save the combs and the SSM 2044 emulation, I am not so in love. I find the Qs filters to be fairly clinical in nature, and the filter drive is weak. I think the filters in the Yamaha A5000, Clavia Nord Modular, Access Virus b and the Korg OASYS are all far superior to those in the Q. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Originally posted by GuestUser: The compression used in ROMplers - which kind is it?I believe most ROMplers use sample skipping, which is a lossy format. It's not like ZipIt, where the samples get "unpacked" as they're used. As I understand it there are three different kinds of digital compression which can be employed: sample skipping (in which something like one out of every three or four samples are used), delta-sigma modulation (which is computed by calculating the differences between increase or decrease of the signal amplitude from the previous sample), and amplitude scaling (which I don't understand well enough to even try to explain). Of course, I'm hardly an expert on this subject, or do I even play one on TV. I'll bet there's someone here who knows a lot more about this than I who could explain it much better...David Green from lilchips probably knows this stuff real well... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I heard a rumor that the ES can actually support 1GB of RAM, but that it takes too long to load samples into that much RAM so they're not touting it. db, please load up your ES with 512MB sticks and report the results. Thanks. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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