Are you ready for some HOCKEY

[flyscots]

Fair enough! I'll agree with you about Madden. He's consistently been a great player since he came into the league a few years ago, the kind of guy you would love to have on your team.

 

You'reright with Modano but I'd find it hard to pick Mogilny. I cant imagine a Lady Byng winner coming from a team full of dirty tricks & whinging. I know he's not one of those guys, but you know what I mean. So I guess its Lidstrom.

 

Click here to vote for real through ESPN.

[Postman]

From your friendly neighborhood ref (me):

 

Rule 37. Linesman

(a) The duty of the LINESMAN is to determine any infractions of the rules concerning off-side play at the blue line or center line, or any violation of Rule 61, icing the puck. He shall stop the play when the puck goes outside the playing area, when it is interfered with by any ineligible person, when it is struck above the height of the shoulder and when the goal post has been displaced from its normal position.

So, it's not a judgement call. Play is stopped when the goal is moved. That's how it should be, too. The puck moves too fast to judge where it would have gone. The only officials asked to do something comparable are baseball umpires. They have much better position, and they still screw it up. Of course a penalty is on the books for purposely moving the net ...

 

Rule 50©: A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player (including the goalkeeper) who delays the game by deliberately displacing a goal post from its normal position. The Referee or Linesmen shall stop play immediately when a goal post has been displaced. If the goal post is deliberately displaced by a goalkeeper or player during the course of a "breakaway", a penalty shot will be awarded to the non-offending team, which shot shall be taken by the player last in possession of the puck.

... but it is rarely called when it matters because of section d:

 

(d) If by reason of insufficient time in the regular playing time or by reason of penalties already imposed, the minor penalty assessed to a player for deliberately displacing his own goal post cannot be served in its entirety within the regular playing time of the game or at any time in overtime, a penalty shot shall be awarded against the offending team.

...which is pretty much giving the game to the other team. While we're at it:

 

Rule 87. Video Goal Judge

The following situations are subject to review by the Video Goal Judge:

 

(a) Puck crossing the goal line.

(b) Puck in the net prior to the goal frame being dislodged.

© Puck in the net prior to, or after expiration of time at the end of the period.

(d) Puck directed into the net by a hand or foot.

(e) Puck deflected into the net off an official.

(f) Puck struck with a high-stick, above the height of the crossbar, by an attacking player prior to entering the goal.

(g) To establish the correct time on the official game clock, provided the game time is visible on the Video Goal Judge's monitors.

None of this is going to be changed. Sorry.

[flyscots]

Thanks Postman

 

Do you think that in the 2 incidents in the Ducks-Stars series the on ice officials saw the goal frame move or did the call come down from upstairs? Infact, can they make the call from upstairs if the on ice officals didnt see it?

 

I'm also curious about Rule 87e, something I dont think I've ever seen happen. I know that the officials are classed as being part of the game so a coincidental deflection on the ice, no matter what it leads to, is just part of the game - for example a clearing attempt hits an official and the puck falls to a forward who then scores, goal stands. So what would actually happen if an off target shot deflected off an official and into the net?

 

Thanks in advance,

John

[whitefang]

That sort of happened to the Wings before the play-offs. The puck deflected off an official in front of the net and was tapped in. Cujo was reaching for it when it hit the ref's skate.

 

And it counted. In this case, though, I should think it wouldn't. Even deflected off a player's skate, it's reviewed to make sure there was no kicking motion. Off an official's skate says to me that no player was involved in the goal, and therefore should be nullified.

 

Whitefang

[Guruman]

Despite the semantics, I am very diasappointed with the game that the Stars put on the ice in game 6. They knew that they needed everyone giving the body and taking the shot, and they only got that effort from some of the players.

 

Congrats to the Ducks, but I'm hoping for a Wild/Devils final. (Man I wanted to see Turco vs Brodeur!)

 

As a post-script, this should do good things for the Stars/Ducks games during the regular season. These two teams never seemed to take each other seriously - the Stars thought that the Ducks were a joke, and the Ducks thought the Stars were out of thier league. Now both teams know different, and that should make for some good division rival hockey next year.

[Postman]

Originally posted by flyscots:

Do you think that in the 2 incidents in the Ducks-Stars series the on ice officials saw the goal frame move or did the call come down from upstairs? Infact, can they make the call from upstairs if the on ice officals didnt see it?

My guess is that the on ice officials missed it, or that they saw it after the goal was scored and didn't know whether the net had been moved before or after the puck went in. And, yes, the video replay judge can buzz the ref to have him delay the subsequent face-off until they have a look at the replay. It's for the integrity of the game. It's infuriating for the fans of the team that had the goal disallowed, but really it's the team that was scored on that would have been injured by the non-call. The rules say play stops when either net becomes dislodged, and that's what must happen.

 

I'm also curious about Rule 87e, something I dont think I've ever seen happen. I know that the officials are classed as being part of the game so a coincidental deflection on the ice, no matter what it leads to, is just part of the game - for example a clearing attempt hits an official and the puck falls to a forward who then scores, goal stands. So what would actually happen if an off target shot deflected off an official and into the net?

In the first case, yes the goal counts. I have trouble getting out of the way of pucks in the games I officiate, and let me assure you, I'm not refereeing anything close to an NHL game. It's a bummer, but it happens. It's also unfortunate when a puck fired around the boards hits a stantion and ricochets into the slot. Personally, think that's much worse. In the second case, if the puck deflects off a ref and goes directly into the net, the goal is disallowed (even if the goalie made a partial save on it). If it's played by anybody else, the goal is allowed. Mind you, an official should never, ever be in that position. I'm really surprised it happened in a NHL game. It must have been a very odd situation. I've never seen it myself.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by whitefang:

That sort of happened to the Wings before the play-offs. The puck deflected off an official in front of the net and was tapped in. Cujo was reaching for it when it hit the ref's skate.

The ref, in hockey and most other sports, is part of the game. A deflection off a ref is the same as a deflection off the boards or the goal post.

 

Lets say a team gets the puck in their own zone. The defenseman passes the puck to his teammate, but it accidentally goes off the ref, then off the post and into the goal.

 

It's still a goal, and will be credited to whoever the last player on the other team touched the puck before the goal...even if that was a minute and three touches before.

 

- Jeff

[Postman]

Originally posted by Jeff the Wandering Weasel:

The ref, in hockey and most other sports, is part of the game. A deflection off a ref is the same as a deflection off the boards or the goal post.

 

Lets say a team gets the puck in their own zone. The defenseman passes the puck to his teammate, but it accidentally goes off the ref, then off the post and into the goal.

 

It's still a goal, and will be credited to whoever the last player on the other team touched the puck before the goal...even if that was a minute and three touches before.

 

- Jeff[/QB]

Nope. That goal would be disallowed. See my earlier post.

[whitefang]

I have to agree because it wasn't argued at the time. The puck bounced off a ref's skate, and tapped in by an opposing player.

 

I just said a puck in the net off a ref SHOULDN'T count, but didn't know the rule.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Whitefang

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Postman:

Nope. That goal would be disallowed. See my earlier post.

Ooops...you're right. I meant to say that if the puck went off the ref and then was touched by the defensive team before going in, the goal would be allowed, as in Rule 82:

 

(a) Play shall not be stopped if the puck touches an Official anywhere on the rink, regardless of whether a Team is shorthanded or not. A puck that deflects back into the defensive zone off an Official who is in the neutral zone, will be deemed to be off-side as per Rule 74 - Off-Sides.

 

(b) When a puck deflects off an Official and goes out of play, the ensuing face-off will take place at the spot where the puck deflected off the Official.

 

(NOTE) If a goal is scored as a result of being deflected directly into the net off an Official, the goal shall not be allowed.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

By the way...in case you haven't checked it out before, the complete NHL rulebook is available for reading online. Fascinating stuff...after watching hockey for 20+ years, there are still rules that surprise me.

 

- Jeff

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Like Rule 35 (j):

 

Should a Referee accidentally leave the ice or receive an injury which incapacitates him from discharging his duties while play is in progress, the game shall be automatically stopped.

 

I understand the idea of an official receiving an injury, of course, but how does he "accidentally leave the ice"? A check from Scott Stevens? Alien abduction from the faceoff circle?

 

- Jeff

[flyscots]

I've seen many a linesman fall into a bench when trying to avoid players, never seen a ref "accidentally leave the ice" though.

 

Postman

Thankyou so much for taking the time to explain the situations to us and answer my questions. Its much appreciated. Thanks for the link aswell Jeff.

 

Originally posted by Postman:

The rules say play stops when either net becomes dislodged, and that's what must happen.

Yep I understand a rule's a rule and must be followed, however, I bet there are plenty of situations within plenty of games when the net is bumped or lifted only for it to fall perfewctly back in place, just like the 2 Dallas-Anaheim situations. The vast majority of these incidents will not result in a goal and play will not be stopped either coz it wasnt noticed or because nothing significant happened during the temporary goal frame movement. As I said, I understand that the game has to be played by the rules, but I still do not agree with the rule when the net movement is so insignificant to the play.

 

By the way, you have such a thankless job being a ref! I've referee'd a few football (soccer) games. You always get abuse from both teams no matter what you do. If you make a mistake, its talked about over and over again afterwards, but if you're perfect, no-one notices.

 

Rather you than me, my friend!

 

Anyway, back to the playoffs. Will Minnesota take it to 7?

[flyscots]

They have ya know, and in style!

 

Minnesota 5 - Vancouver 1!

 

Again, I didnt see the game, probably wont see game 7 either, but wow! Its all happening like a movie script in the West. 3 Wild pleyers got their 1st goals of the playoffs in this game (Sekeras, Hendrickson, Laaksonen) Naslund & Bertuzzi have only 1 goal between them this series. Goes to show how important depth is.

[rog951]

Originally posted by flyscots:

They have ya know, and in style!

 

Minnesota 5 - Vancouver 1!

 

Again, I didnt see the game, probably wont see game 7 either, but wow! Its all happening like a movie script in the West. 3 Wild pleyers got their 1st goals of the playoffs in this game (Sekeras, Hendrickson, Laaksonen) Naslund & Bertuzzi have only 1 goal between them this series. Goes to show how important depth is.

I think they can pull it off and I really hope they do! I like Vancouver too but the Wild are just too good a story to root against! I saw the highlights of tonights game...Jovo-cop got beaten badly again on at least two of the goals. He looked absolutely horrible in game five. I bet he comes to play in game 7. I predict it won't be enough though: 3-2 Wild in OT.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Un-freakin-believable!

 

Never before in NHL history has a team fought back and won a playoff series after being down 3-1 games...twice in the same year.

 

Hell, it's only happened 18 times total!

 

Raise your hand if a month ago you thought the Wild and the Ducks would be in the Western conference finals. Anyone?

 

- Jeff

[Dan South]

Holy Karma, Batman! I came to this thread with the idea of posting the following exclamation:

 

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE!

 

Jeff, you've said it all! What a thrilling finale to switch over to after an amazing night of roundball!

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Jeff, you've said it all! What a thrilling finale to switch over to after an amazing night of roundball!

Definitely one of those amazing sports nights!

 

- Jeff

[jackpine]

Are the Feekin' Wild for real or what?????

 

It's fairly rare that I go to a bar to watch a game but I did tonite. Was the most fun I've had in quite a while.

 

The locals are going WILD.

[CP]

These are going to be two great series. My gut tell me it will be the Senators vs The Mighty Ducks. However, you never know.

[rog951]

Holy shit. I'm now officially picking the Wild to go all the way. I'd pedicted a Wild win last night, but, in the little game in my head, they certainly didn't have to come from behind like that! This team is mentally unbeatable. Incredible coaching and tons of heart. If they keep getting their fair share of the bounces, they simply cannot lose...

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Jeff the Wandering Weasel:

Un-freakin-believable!

 

Never before in NHL history has a team fought back and won a playoff series after being down 3-1 games...twice in the same year.

...and on the road in both series as well.

 

That game was a lot of fun...When it was 2-2 going into the third period, I thought it'd end be a lot closer than it was. The Wild just totally dominated the Canucks for pretty much the whole period at both ends of the ice, though.

 

So much for the "ucks" WC finals...

 

All four teams left have been playing great hockey - both conference finals should be great, and the championship games even better.

 

Between these playoffs and the NBA games, I'm spending way too much damn time watching sports...

 

dB

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Between these playoffs and the NBA games, I'm spending way too much damn time watching sports...

I'm with ya.

 

There's only three times a year I get like this:

 

1. Now (NBA/NHL playoffs).

2. Mid-Fall (NFL in mid season, NHL and NBA starting).

3. December/January (all football, baby).

 

But it's so damn good, who couldn't watch?

 

- Jeff

[Mike Dawson]

Originally posted by Jeff the Wandering Weasel:

 

Raise your hand if a month ago you thought the Wild and the Ducks would be in the Western conference finals. Anyone?

How about it! Think back to the start of the playoffs. The talk was New Jersey out of the East on the shoulders of Brodeur. But who would they face: The defending champs, the Avs on the back of the best goalie in the game, or the Stars with the best record. And the answer is: either the Minnesota Wild or the Mighty Ducks? I've watched it all happen and it still doesn't make sense to me.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by berkleeboi:

I've watched it all happen and it still doesn't make sense to me.

Welcome to the forums, berkleeboi.

 

Yes, as they say, that's why they play the games. I think the amazing thing this year is that there are two teams to come out of nowhere. There have been plenty of other years that unexpected teams like the Panthers, Hurricanes and so on have done well.

 

But both the Ducks and the Wild?

 

Now...who's going to win the West? Between these two "destiny teams", I can't for the life of me pick a winner.

 

Your thoughts/guesses/predictions?

 

- Jeff

[Magpel]

The Minnesota who? The Minnesota What? The Wild??Is that short for "The Wilderness?" Aren't they a minor league North American soccer team? Or was it Jai Lai?

 

Oops, sorry. Brief vacation from the Basketball thread. Rock on, hockey fans. Nobody really understands you.

[Mike Dawson]

Welcome to the forums, berkleeboi.

Thanks Jeff.

 

And you're right, this year it's two teams in the West, nonetheless. It's one thing to sneak up a few teams in the East, but when you knock off Detroit or Colorado in the first round you ain't sneaking up on anyone for the rest of the playoffs. Unbelievable.

 

My question now is, with names like Roy, Federov, Modano, and Forsburg out of the playoffs, is the rest of the playoffs going to be as exciting as it's been up until this point? I hate the Devils, but I'm not sure I'll get as excited about the Wild or Ducks trying to beat them as I would if it were my Stars.

[Mike Dawson]

And as for my pick, I love the way the Wild is playing and they've shown so much resilience and heart. But it's really hard to pick against Giguere. Especially since coming into the Playoffs I thought the Stars would win the whole thing pretty easily and the Ducks knocked them off. So I'd have to go with Aneheim in 5 games. Either way though, I think it's going to be great hockey and I'm looking forward to sitting down in my recliner every other night with a couple Labatts and enjoying it.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by berkleeboi:

So I'd have to go with Aneheim in 5 games. Either way though, I think it's going to be great hockey and I'm looking forward to sitting down in my recliner every other night with a couple Labatts and enjoying it.

Hell yeah.

 

If I had a gun held to my head and forced to make a call, I'll say Anaheim in six. I think that having Giguere, along with the power and experience of guys like Kariya, Oats and Neidermayer, will give the Ducks the edge. But those Wild...man, who can tell? It's a year of underdogs and surprises.

 

- Jeff

[Mats Olsson.]

Woohoo!

 

Sweden vs. Canada in the world cup finals!

 

I'm really looking forward to that game, 2 great teams.

 

/Mats