Sen. Paul Wellstone ( D-Minn) dies in plane crash

[GZsound]

Isn't it funny how it's the liberals that start the name calling and the hate speech? They start the rumor it's somehow foul play by the Republicans. They show Mr. Bush throwing an old person down the stairs. They don't practice tolerance of any kind except to those who agree with their socialist views and rather than argue on the facts, they choose to attack. A message of condolence and sorrow at the unfortunate loss of life would have been nice instead of using this accident as a basis for another left wing radical attack on the Republicans. Just how low can someone get before they realize there is no tolerance in their heart, only hate? I feel very sorry for those who believe words are more important than deeds. At least Mr. Wellstone was true to his beliefs and never sold out. We need more politicians like him to keep the checks and balances in place. We need fewer left wing radicals who simply repeat the dogma in order to "feel" they are important.

[Wow]

Well said .

[not coaster MODERATOR]

What Hippie said. I can't figure out why forum members would blow their tops over something like this. Life goes on. Politics goes on. This event, as sad as it is will probably have little impact on most of our lives.

[realtrance]

Well it's clear, with the close presidential election of 2000, the ongoing corporate scandal parade, the noticeable world economic slowdown, the seeming gaps between reportage and fact, that people are "prepped" at this point to anticipate the worst. Hell, I succumb to it on my worse days, too. But it's important to keep it all in perspective; the only constant is change, and change is more in the air now than ever. Puts everyone on edge and brings out all the loony tendencies in us all. More people with private planes, especially in positions of public importance, should have storm scopes. There's technology to help you deal with sudden changes from IFR to VFR... it's not cheap, but it's cheaper than death. Even so, stuff happens. Consider yourself lucky today that you're alive. rt

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by GZsound@hotmail.com: [b]Isn't it funny how it's the liberals that start the name calling and the hate speech? [/b][/quote]Isn't that overstating things to say the least?Not to mention way out of perspective?Personally I don't think there was any foul play but since it does tip the balance of power I wouldn't totally dismiss it off hand,nor would I be shocked.Surprised?Yeah.Shocked?No.I tend to keep my mind open on all matters.Skepticism?In the right measure of course.

[Bralalalalalalala]

Really! Anifa is a Wacko not a Liberal, there is a difference, isn't there?

[BrianT]

Wow. Freaky. Brian T

[Salyphus]

Amazing to find out that people can be individuals rather than stereotypes, isn't it? :D

[Throatsinger]

This was a very dark day for Minnesota. Whether folks here liked his politics or not (I did) they recognized that he was a special human being. Filled with passion, energy, kindness and decency not often enough demonstrated by our elected officials, he was a true mensch. I had the oppurtunity and privilege to meet him a few times, to shake his hand and thank him for his good works. His wife was also a fine person, and a great and tireless advocate for abused and battered women, and other unfortunate folks. I admired them and will miss them. It's strange... I've been seeing/reading all these politicians talking about how rare a guy he was, looking out for the underdog, the little guys, and so principled, etc., and I wanna ask them why that is? Steve Sklar

[Wewus432]

I remember seeing Senator Wellstone speak right before the Gulf War which was very soon after he was first elected. I'd never heard of the guy but I could tell he wasn't your average politician because of the passion and conviction he spoke with arguing against going to war. I don't know that much about him except that he was a self-proclaimed peace-nik, and I also know he was greatly loved and will be greatly missed.

[Salyphus]

Let's also not forget U.S. Commerce Secretary Ron Brown who also died in a crash under dubious circumstances. I don't know enough about the story to really put a quote here, but maybe someone else does.

[Dogfur]

Good morning all; I was correct in saying I needed a break when I started this thread - a weekend with my family and some old friends ( and a beautiful wedding gig at Lake Tahoe thrown in for good measure )has gotten me straightened out a bit - not all the way, but a bit. Alot of bad and tragic news these days - It can be overwhelming, and I certainly try to keep some perspective. After sporadically reviewing this thread over the course of this morning ( Anifa's opinionated support and contributions to the thread were appreciated, and now sadly missed )it seems apparent that these issues have such potential to spiral out of control. Keeping a cork on the bile while somebody posts something against your held opinion could certainly prevent this - I'll try to keep it in mind, I hope y'all will too. Best to all, Dogfur

[Jotown]

The funeral was today. My heart and condolences go out to the Wellstone family and friends. Love and blessings to all.

[Lee Tyler]

Very childish.....and now......speechless.....which is a loss for YOU [i]and[/i] the board as a whole, Anifa. Junior high school stuff. Too bad. The act of agreeing to disagree....and not get arrested and sent to Siberia...is one of democracy's greatest gifts. Don't silence yourself. Many disagreed with [i]how[/i] you stated your feelings, but why erase your "mind" and "feelings"? Come on back now, ya' here! :D

[Anifa]

[quote]Originally posted by SOUND DIAGNOSIS: [b]Very childish.....and now......speechless.....which is a loss for YOU [i]and[/i] the board as a whole, Anifa. Junior high school stuff. Too bad. The act of agreeing to disagree....and not get arrested and sent to Siberia...is one of democracy's greatest gifts. Don't silence yourself. Many disagreed with [i]how[/i] you stated your feelings, but why erase your "mind" and "feelings"? Come on back now, ya' here! :D [/b][/quote]None saw the dialogue posted between ******* and I where I pointed out places when he had shown disrespect to others, nor did they see the personal email he sent to me with threats of filing a restraining order. I do not find humor or congeniality in his mannerism any longer; but I do however, enjoy these forums and I will elect to ignore those that do not merit a reply. Childish yes; I refuse to grow up! I'll always be a big kid at heart, and yes, I can be sensitive at times... I'm woman enough to admit that!

[Anifa]

This is a post of importance that I had sent to another in support of my concerns, who sent it back in a private message requesting that I not exit the boards. This is factual information retrieved from Congressional Documents outlining the events going on in Congress at the time of the plane crashes involving two of the Republican Senators mentioned earlier who had died in plane crashes. Someone asks for facts earlier... I have reasons for questioning the deaths of politicians in plane crashes. [quote] Since there has been a call to offer FACTS, and so not to render this unto a further "political party" debate, I have done a bit of research. During the time frame where the aforementioned political figures perished, there were intense investigations surrounding the Iran Contra Affair and also issues were brought forward involving The National Drug Intelligence Center, and the demand that proper information be placed on record and kept in a database made available for review. Both interests were directly targeted at the Reagan/Bush Administration, and both portrayed the Administration in a negative light. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by BlueSky: Sometimes accidents just happen. During the 90's several republicans were killed in plane crashes and I am sure that politics had nothing to do with that. The whole world isn't a conspiracy and most of the time things really are what they seem. No offence intended... Just for the record... Larkin I. Smith (1944-1989) Husband of Sheila Smith. Born in Mississippi, June 26, 1944. Republican. U.S. Representative from Mississippi 5th District, 1989; died in office 1989. Died in an airplane crash, August 13, 1989. Interment at Floral Hills Cemetery, Gulfport, Miss. See also: congressional biography. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have no documentation to offer on this one. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Henry John Heinz III (1938-1991) -- also known as H. John Heinz III -- of Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pa. His widow later married John Forbes Kerry. Born in Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pa., October 23, 1938. Republican. U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania 18th District, 1971-77; U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania, 1977-91; died in office 1991. Died in the crash of a small plane at Merion, Montgomery County, Pa., April 4, 1991. Interment at Homewood Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pa. See also: congressional biography. . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Heinz had made a public announcement just prior to his fatal departure, when questioned by a news reporter what he intended to do when he arrived back home; his reply was, "I'm going to invoke the Constitution." His comments were relative to the The Bush Administration's failure to comply with Bush's proposed platform allotting $10 million to disclose information collected in drug traffiking. I could not find any direct links that showed Heinz' final words in writing on the Internet, but if one should want to do some research it is WRITTEN throughout hard copy news articles of the past. However, here is a Congressional link relative to an inquiry made by Heinz as to such actions conducted by Bush's delegates... Needless to say, Heinz never made it home to fulfill his pledge. [url=http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1990_cr/s901015-ndic.htm]NATIONAL DRUG INTELLIGENCE CENTER[/url] quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Goodwin Tower (1925-1991) -- also known as John G. Tower -- of Wichita Falls, Wichita County, Tex.; Dallas, Dallas County, Tex. Born in Houston, Harris County, Tex., September 29, 1925. Republican. Served in the U.S. Navy during World War II; delegate to Republican National Convention from Texas, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1980; U.S. Senator from Texas, 1961-85; defeated, 1960. Methodist. Member, American Legion; Kiwanis; Kappa Sigma. Nominated for Secretary of Defense in 1989, but defeated amid allegations of heavy drinking and womanizing. Killed in a plane crash near Brunswick, Glynn County, Ga., April 5, 1991. Interment at Sparkman Hillcrest Memorial Park, Dallas, Tex. See also: congressional biography. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Goodwin Tower was very active in the Iran Contra Affair and was threatening to sue President Bush to force him to produce documents that had been removed. Behind the Tower Commission, his demands were very threatening to the integrity of President Bush Sr. and former President Reagan. You may read up on some of the information produced in Congressional Documentation... I believe someone accused me of ranting and another called me Wacko earlier, not you BlueSky, but other uninformed individuals that think we live in a picture perfect America. Tower was in a position to do serious damage for he had made back-up copies of records relative to the Iran Contra Affair prior to the exposure of the scandal. Tower was taken down to keep from exposing the Bush-Reagan ill dealings. [url=http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/reagan/chron.txt]Tower Commission[/url] quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- George Speaker Mickelson (1941-1993) Son of George Theodore Mickelson. Born January 31, 1941. Republican. Governor of South Dakota, 1987-93; died in office 1993; Presidential Elector for South Dakota, 1992. Died in a plane crash, April 19, 1993. Burial location unknown. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have no documentation to offer on this one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/quote]

[Anifa]

Also, Bush granted pardons to those in question prior to other investigations that could get off of the ground after two key speakers had mysteriously died in plane crashes. [url=http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1992/921224-260039.htm]Bush Pardons Weinberger, Five Others Tied to Iran-Contra[/url] Here is the overall resource link to congressional records... I pulled it up in a search I ran on "Senator John Heinz" [url=http://www.fas.org/]Federation of American Scientists[/url] Use the following keywords when conducting searches. Individual Senators Names Iran Contra Affair Tower Commission Ironically enough, all documents have been removed on Senator Mel Carnahan.

[BrianT]

So if you have all these "facts", why are you wasting time posting them on a musicplayer forum? Go to the news media, a liberal federal judge, or a political opponent of these people. Surely they would be interested. Or is the "conspiracy" so all encompassing that only [b]you[/b] are "in the know" and willing to talk about it. If you're beef is legit, do something about it. Otherwise, may I suggest you give it a rest. Not to offend, but it ends up with at least some of the attributes of ranting, IMO. Regards, Brian T

[Anifa]

[quote]Originally posted by BrianT: [b]So if you have all these "facts", why are you wasting time posting them on a musicplayer forum? Go to the news media, a liberal federal judge, or a political opponent of these people. Surely they would be interested. Or is the "conspiracy" so all encompassing that only [b]you[/b] are "in the know" and willing to talk about it. If you're beef is legit, do something about it. Otherwise, may I suggest you give it a rest. Not to offend, but it ends up with at least some of the attributes of ranting, IMO. Regards, Brian T[/b][/quote]There are certain things that Federal employees are NOT allowed to do under the provisions of our employment... view The Hatch Act for yourself to see the "RIGHTS" that Federal Workers are forced to give up in taking employment inside of Government Agencies. The MusicPlayer Forum will not get me fired from my day job; talking to the media about government policies, congressional controversies, employment, political parties campaigns, and such will. It was not until more recent years that a Federal Worker could even place a political campaign sign in their yard at their personal residence; violations are grounds for termination. The opposition is well aware of these occurrences and unfortunately when documents are sealed up for fifty years due to fraudulent movements controlled by exisiting powers that be... their hands are tied. You can call it ranting if you wish, but the FACTS are available for you to read with your own eyes. I will not spar with you or defend my purpose to appease you; the information is available for you to read. Elections are November 5th, are you registered to vote and do you know the first thing about who your candidates are and what issues they represent? This is a VERY critical election, and given the controversy over the 2000 Presidential Election; people should be very concerned in KNOWING who and what they are voting for. You have less than a week to study your facts; if you can NOT answer who your representatives are and what issues they support, then you have no business trying to stir the kettle in a POLITICAL conversation.

[Wow]

"I'm a federal worker so I cant talk, its sealed up for fifty years." Man, please, HEY We never landed on the moon and Jimmy Hoffa lives on that Island with Marlon Brando. I dont believe your stuff and if it is true and you do work for the Gov. then why in the hell are you posting it in this forum? PS: If you are privy to this stuff, are their aliens that live in area 54?

[BrianT]

[quote]Originally posted by Anifa: [b][/quote]There are certain things that Federal employees are NOT allowed to do under the provisions of our employment... [/b] Come on. Where's your commitment to getting the truth out about these heinous acts of governmental subterfuge? Is anonymous accusation of our elected leaders on a music oriented forum the extent of your commitment to getting these important truths out? I bear you no personal ill will. But I grant no credibility to anonymously posted conspiracy theories. I didn't when they were about Clinton either. Way too Jerry Springer for my tastes. Regards, Brian T

[BrianT]

BTW, check this link: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/politicians.plane.crashes/index.html Of the prominent elected officials killed in plane crashes since 1972, 5 were Republican and 7 were Democrats. That's one extremely inefficient conspiracy, whichever side you want to foist it on, if you ask me. Regards, Brian T

[Salyphus]

You people are a laugh. Here she is posting facts, with references to back them up, and the best thing you can come up with is personal potshots. Pretty much speaks for itself methinks.

[Anifa]

The deaths of the four prominent US politicians during the years of 1972 - 1976 were surrounding the Watergate scandal. 1972 being the year where the scandal surfaced. May I add one thing to your query of Republican vs. Democrats............... In a Facist take over, Political Parties are unimportant. Whoever stands opposed, loses. [url=http://www.absolutefacts.com/data/nixon.htm]Richard Nixon[/url]

[Anifa]

Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan are both linked through political contributions for campaign funds to the Nazi organization. George Bush assisted in the investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, later to become Chief Commander of the CIA, later to become Reagan's Vice President and then on to become President; not to be reelected for a 2nd term. [url=http://parascope.com/articles/1196/nazis.htm]The Nazi Connection to the JFK Assassination [/url] The Nazi Connection to the JFK Assassination ------------------------------ The following articles and excerpts document the Nazi connection to the JFK assassination. ------------------------------ Excerpt From "The Nazi Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination" (c) 1983 LFP, Inc. (from The Rebel, Nov. 22, 1983) Reprinted in "The Mae Brussel Reader" (c) 1991 Prevailing Winds Research P.O. Box 23511 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 [b]This is an exerpt from within the overall document that associates Nixon's reign of political power to the Nazi Organization, read the entire article both previous to this clip and succeeding it. This bit appears about half way through the article. Interesting opening paragraphs in this section of the article![/b] [quote] How Nixon Actually Got Into Power By Mae Brussell From "The Realist", August, 1972 The rise of Adolph Hitler and fascism in Germany was carefully planned. It began with the illegal rearmament of a covert army following defeat in World War I, which was an intentional, secretive breaking of the Versailles Treaty disarmament agreements. American munition manufacturers and industrialists aided the clandestine military leaders of Germany in their rearmament. (1) Over four hundred political assassinations of legitimate government officials from various agencies in Germany took place during that period. These murders were necessary for the desired power and position the hidden German government needed. German law courts, plus their Supreme Court, assisted the growing military regime from 1920-1933. Two governments, one official and legal, one clandestine and secretive, existed side by side, Hitler, front man and leader of the illegal arms, mistaken for comical by the intellectuals, was administered the oath as Chancellor of the German Reich January 30, 1933. The rise of Richard Nixon in the United States was carefully planned. An illegal attitude towards the Versailles Treaty allowed American financiers to feed and support Germany's illegal rearmament. An illegal attitude toward the Geneva Accord was also approved by Dwight Eisenhower for Indochina in 1945.. (2) A study of our State department and espionage establishment reveals that we had clandestine, secret armies functioning both abroad and in the United States. (3) Hundreds of political assassinations, plus the Supreme Court, have supported this clandestine government and military regime by lending their name to the concealment of the conspiracies to murder our leaders. They refuse to examine documents that exist, allow truth to remain locked in the National Archives on the basis of the lie, "national security." Richard Nixon, front man and leader of this illegal government, mistaken for comical by the intellectuals, was administered the oath of president of the United States on January 20, 1969. Military and industrial fanatics felt deprived and defeated when John Kennedy would not make war with the Soviet Union as late as 1961. E.M. Dealey, militant publisher of the Dallas News, told President Kennedy, 'We need a man on horseback to lead this nation. Too many people in Texas and the Southwest think you are riding Caroline's tricycle." (4) Two years later, in Dealey Plaza, John Kennedy was murdered. He feared the hidden government behind his back, publicly stating he wanted "to splinter the CIA in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds."(5) The day our President was murdered, the streets of Dallas were filled with posters and handbills proclaiming him a traitor. This was the same motivation for illegal assassinations and killings in pre-Nazi, and Nazi Germany. (6) [/quote][b]Here is another exerpt and link to the full article that demonstrates Ronald Reagan's ties; read the full article to learn who Gehlen is.[/b] The forum html format does not accept the conversion of the link, due to it's .html extension... you will need to cut and past the URL into your address window to pull this page up. [b]http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%27s%20JFK%20article.html[/b] The Nazi Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy by Mae Brussell (from the short-lived Larry Flynt publication The Rebel, Nov. 22, 1983) [quote] Gehlen pioneered the setting up of dummy fronts and cover companies to support his farflung covert operations. A major project was to form Eastern European emigre groups in the U.S. that could be used against the Soviets. Both the Tolstoy Foundation and the Union of Bishops of the Orthodox Church Outside Russia were funded by the CIA. When Lee and Marina Oswald arrived from the Soviet Union in June, 1962 they were befriended by some three dozen White Russians in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Many had identifiable nazi links; others were in the oil and defense industries. It was an improbable social set for a defector to the U.S.S.R. and his wife from Minsk. By the time the Gehlen Organization became part of the West German state, Gehlen already had his agent-in-place in the United States. He was Otto Albrecht von Bolschwing, who had been a captain in Heinrich Himmler’s dreaded SS and Adolph Eichmann's superior in Europe and Palestine. Von Bolschwing worked simultaneously for Dulles' OSS. When he entered the U.S. in February, 1954, he cleverly concealed his nazi past. He was to take over Gehlen's network not only in this country but in many corners of the globe. He became closely associated with the late Elmer Bobst of Warner-Lambert Pharmaceutical, a godfather of Richard Nixon's political career, which brought him inside Nixon's 1960 campaign for the presidency. In 1969 he showed up in California with a high-tech firm called TCI that held classified Defense Department contracts. His translator for German projects was Helene van Damme, Governor Ronald Reagan's appointments secretary. Von Damme is currently U.S. Ambassador to Austria, next door to the nazi's homeland. [/quote]

[Wow]

Your posting stuff from Larry Flint. Good sources. [quote] May I add one thing to your query of Republican vs. Democrats............... In a Facist take over, Political Parties are unimportant [/quote]Please, stop this, you are making my side hurt I am lol so hard. Which party is trying to shut down talk radio(Democrats and John Mccain). Liberals wont even let people talk if they have a conservative view. Why is this ? Because if you get these crazy ass conspiracy theories out of the way, liberals have no way of backing their stuff up. I have said this before, Liberals are open minded to anything ,BUT a different opinion. So this stuff about the Prez. being Hitler and taking over all of America is crazy. If all of this stuff you say is true then write a book or something , you will make more money than you do working for the government. Go try your amateur conspiracy stuff somewhere else.

[Rog]

[quote]Originally posted by The Troll with Soul: Go try your amateur conspiracy stuff somewhere else.[/quote]Troll, please go find yourself somewhere else to play. There must be loads of places on the WWW where you can meet up with like-minded conservatives and wank each other off over pictures of President Bush in a bikini. I honestly don't see the point of you being here, unlike Ani who usually has something interesting to say for herself. Why do you persist in coming here? Do you enjoy liberal-baiting? Do you actually play an instrument? Are you even insterested in music or do you prefer winding people up? Musicians are largely left-wing people IMO and there are lots of musicians here on SSS. I wouldn't go and hang around conservative clubs and provoke people, I have a life and I prefer to hang here, in the company of (mostly) like-minded people. I suggest you do the same and find your own place with your own tribe.

[Franknputer]

I'm not going to suggest chasing people off...but it is funny that you would use one conspiracy theory to bash another, CM.

[Bralalalalalalala]

Dueling Psychos!

[Wow]

[quote] I'm not going to suggest chasing people off...but it is funny that you would use one conspiracy theory to bash another, CM. [/quote]You got me here, I did it and really didnt even realize what I was doing!!!