marino Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 OK fellows, I need your help. I'm offered a good deal on a Studio Electronics SE-1. I never replaced the Minimoog that I owned for too short a time in the 80s; I am also attracted by the extensive MIDI and program memory. Trouble is, I never heard an SE-1 in person: they are extremely rare and expensive here in Italy. (Well, this is expensive too, but much better than new) And since this one is in another city, I don't have the chance to try it beforehand. Has any of you A/Bed an SE-1 with a real Minimoog? Are they really undistinguishable, to the last bit? I know the specs already; my only concern is authenticity. A secondary question: The seller told me that they have resolved the zipper noise on the knobs that they had on the first rev, and now the filter knobs work in a very smooth way. Any input on this will be also appreciated. Hey, ANY input will be appreciated! Really, I just want to know if this thing "is" really a Mini or not. And I need to decide quickly..! Huge thanks in advance to everybody http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 It just so happens that I know the perfect person to answer these questions - he owns both and use both side by side, and loves to talk about them. I will see if I can get him to post a response. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted January 27, 2001 Author Share Posted January 27, 2001 That would be wonderful Dave, thanks three million!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Just in case you don"t know this story, It is built by guys who repaired Minis for over ten years... If this doesn't work out there's always Steinberg's Model E http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted January 28, 2001 Author Share Posted January 28, 2001 Yeah, I know they used to rackmount Minis with MIDI etc., and I also tried Model E; it is impressive but it just don't *feel* like a Mini to me (and how could it...). That's why I asked for a direct comparison. A Mini is a Mini is a Mini.. marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Norlander Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: It just so happens that I know the perfect person to answer these questions - he owns both and use both side by side, and loves to talk about them. I will see if I can get him to post a response. dB Yep. He got me alright. I don't actually own an SE-1, but I have used them quite a lot. But I have A-B'd the the SE-1 against a Mini, and I can tell you quite a bit about these guys and what they do. So? Here's the history as I know it. Take a deep breath, it's going to be a long one... Studio Electronics is a great little company in Encino, California run by lovers of analog synths who truly "get it". I have given them many thousands of dollars of my money, and I am *extremely* happy with all of their work and their products. I am a Studio Electronics fan. These guys came out with a rack-mounted version of the Minimoog a little over ten years ago called the "Midimoog". I have owned one for 10 years, I *LOVE* it, and I have literally taken it all over the world in a soft rack case that will fit into the overhead compartment of an airplane. Did I mention that I *LOVE* it? So what is a "Midimoog"? Studio Electronics took an actual Minimoog and harvested the oscillator and filter circuit boards which they re-mounted in a 4RU box without modification. They made a new heavy black powder-coated (read: durable) front panel out of really thick (read: good) metal with a new white silkscreen whose graphics were slightly more compressed than the Minimoog panel in order to fit it into 19" (which is actually 17" when you consider the rack ears). Then they added some additional features not found on the original Mini, but that were common mods "back in the day". These included a dedicated LFO (so you could use Osc 3 for audio - yeah!), hard sync, velocity to amp level and/or filter cutoff, and an additional envelope mode so that you can either re-trigger the envelopes with every key (new) or wait until all keys are let up before re-triggering (old). They also installed Midi In and Thru with selectable MIDI channel. The industrial design and mechanical engineering are superb. Not too froofy or anything, but solid and practical, and most importantly, authentic looking. If you know the Minimoog, you can fly a Midimoog effortlessly. My only complaint about the Midimoog is that the filter does not track the Glide. So if you do a big portamento sweep up a few octaves, it is way too dark, and opposite for downward motion. I guess this could be modded. Okay, so that was the "Midimoog". A definite winner. If you can find one for less than $2,500, buy it *immediately*. Especially considering that we have seen Mini after Mini sell on ebay for $2,500+. Sell any other synthesizer you may have if you need to -- this one is better. PHASE TWO. The Midimoog was understandly expensive as it relied on killing an original Minimoog in order to build it. I believe when they were in production, Studio Electronics would charge something like $1,500 *plus* you provide the Mini. Hey, you get what you pay for. Also, Minimoogs were not the easiest thing to find back then, especially for a reasonable price (never mind today ... sheesh!). So Studio Electronics designed their own discrete oscillator and filter boards trying to stay faithful to the Minimoog design. This meant that they no longer needed a real Minimoog in order to make their rack product. And, since they are honest and sincere folks, they changed the name of the product so that you knew you were getting something a little different. This new product was called the "Midimini". It looked the same as the Midimoog and (presumably) used all the same panels and components with the exception of their new oscillator and filter boards. The Midimini is the predecessor to the SE-1. It has no patch memory (like the Minimoog and the Midimoog) but uses these new oscillator and filter boards designed by Studio Electronics. A Midimini and an SE-1 sound very similar because of this. And how do they sound compared to an actual Minimoog or Midimoog? Different. Certainly not *bad*, but definitely different. In fact, I think the SE-1 sounds more like a Rev 2 Prophet 5 than a Minimoog. The SE-1 is a little edgier and more aggressive, but not as fat and warm as a Mini. The SE-1 is definitely thinner sounding than a Mini. Also, the envelopes are not quite the same on a SE-1. I believe this has something to do with the microprocessor control of the envelopes. The Mini's envelopes are snappier, more forceful, and generally a bit more musical to my ear. But the SE-1 is still a good synth. It costs much less than a Minimoog + some kind of MIDI retrofit, and definitely less than a Midimoog (if you can even find one). The SE-1 also has patch memory. Dig that! Patch memory on a Minimoog-style synth? Cool. If you are not a hardcore analog synth programmer, this could be a big advantage. When I use my Midimoog live, I actually have tape on the front panel marking the different "patch" setting which I adjust between (or during!) songs. Yes, it would be much more convenient to just press a button and have the patch change. (I hear that synths can do that these days ;-). So with the SE-1 you get patch memory and a lower price, but you also get a thinner sound than an Minimoog. There's always a tradeoff, eh? However, many folks are more than willing to accept this tradeoff. As I said, the SE-1 still sounds very good. Keith Emerson tours with an SE-1 along *with* his big modular Moog. When he plays the "Lucky Man" solo, it's the SE-1 not the modular! The fact that he can change patches on the SE-1 makes it a practical piece for him. I also hear that the SE-1 is a very popular synth for R&B, Hip Hop and Rap. I can see how it's slightly edgier, brighter sound would be good for that. What else? In addition to my Midimoog, I am also the proud owner of two Studio Electronics "Obie Racks" which are 5RU boxes each containing two Oberheim SEM synths along with MIDI, LFO, Glide, etc. Also extremely cool, and also sadly out of production. They also make a very affordable 2RU synth called the ATC-1, which I believe stands for "Analog Tone Chameleon". The unit accepts different filter cartridges to emulate Moog, SEM, 303 and 2600 filters. It's a good, respectable unit if you can't afford the higher end stuff. I am embarrassed to say that I have not heard their Omega rack mount polysynth yet, but many folks have told me that the sound is massive and very high quality. They have even phoned me up personally to offer an in-studio demo, and I will certainly have to take them up on it. These guys know what they're doing, and as I mentioned above, they definitely "get it". So ... WAY too much information, probably, but I hope it helps. Dave, am I off the hook now? Cheers, Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Norlander Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Oops. I used the wrong emoticon at the start of my previous long winded post. I meant to use this one :-) While somewhat of an analog synth expert, I am still a luddite when it comes to wielding smiley faces. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Actually Erik, it was called the "MidiMini", but I'll let one of my best clients slide. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif) Will you be picking up your serial number 1 Moog modular keyboard soon? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif (ego boost added ;-) Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Oops... that's what I get for not reading the whole thread first!! However, I thought they were always called the MidiMini. Regardless, the reason they started making their own boards was that they ran out of real mini's to salvage. I visited their "garage" at one point and was astounded that the entire left wall of the place was stacked floor to ceiling with Mini carcasses. I'll always rib Greg (of Studio Electronics) for his use of lock washers on the FRONT panel of the synth, but otherwise, I love the box too. Just be forwarned: if a client asks to have any mods done, it's tight in there and they used THICK steel. I added a removable AC power receptacle to one and wasn't too happy. Also, I feel that the range for the internal oscillator trimmers of their later boards is too large for their physical movement. That's to say that they're a bit touchy to adjust, especially for their size. Midiminis (or MidiMoogs) seem fine in the studio (and several have been fine on the road), but I've serviced several 'toured" units and found those trims to be a drag to adjust. I limited the ranges of the last one I serviced and I've never heard a complaint since. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif MIDI-Kevin-Moog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Regarding the ATC-1 I have a little story: The guy I bought my Matrix-6 from, Courtney Branch, told me about a year before it came out that he had suggested the idea to them a year or two before. He had a kick-ass studio (using all that glorious blue Oram gear before anyone else knew about them), and he said he was having SE repair some stuff and got into a conversation about filters and suggested they have a plug-in design for a synth. Then they came out with it without telling him. He sued them and they settled by giving him the first 20 production models of the ATC-1. Pretty nifty. He also said the SE guys basically worked out of their mother's house and that she would often give you fresh-baked cookies when you showed up for repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 I would like to send big thanks to everybody who posted there, particularly to Erik for taking the time to post a ton of very useful info, and to Dave for having involved him in the thread. (mm, pardon my English...) Sadly, it seems that I hesitated a few hours too much, and some guy came with a bunch more bucks to offer, so the SE-1 is gone... In the meanwhile, I've found the old issue of Keyboard mag with the SE-1 review, and they say that in blindfold tests, nobody was able to tell the difference with the Mini. Boy, to say that now I'm really curious to hear it is an understatement. Next time. Thanks again marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvn Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Well, I own an SE-1. I love it. I have never compared it side by side to a MiniMoog, but I don't care. I am not the type of person to want ANY synth that doesn't allow for storing sounds. Sorry. That's TOO stone age for me. The SE-1 rocks for the same purposes that Mini's rock at. Massive bass, wormy leads. Having the presets works for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 Boys and girls, NOW I'm confused. First, the Keyboard review of the SE-1 (Mark Vail, April '94) seems to imply that the Midimini was the original MIDIfied Minimoog by Studio Electronics, not a successive version with newly designed oscs and filters (I don't have the February '92 issue with the Midimini review, so I can't check there). Then, somebody came to me and said that the Midimoog wasn't made by Studio Electronics, but by a different company called "Stage Electronics"! What the...! Well, now that the SE-1 I was going to buy is gone (a good one for "the one that got away.."), these sound a bit like academic questions, but I AM curious anyway!! Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Ack! Stage Electronics and Studio Electronics are two different companies. Very long story regarding Stage Electronics, but I know it well from one of the "owners'", Vince Michaels, a good friend of mine. The other "owner" was Jim Suchora (sp?). Their unit never did work, but was shown at the NAMM show back in the mid 80's. I had a pic on my site when it was still up, but I think there's still one somewhere on MIdiwall.com. Two different companies, two different units. One successful- Studio Electronics, the other... oh well... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegerardi Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Kevin: This has GOT to be the same Vince Michaels from Buffalo NY???? He's a good friend of mine too, and it was he that I bought my Prophet-10 from, but I lost touch with him when I moved to Savannah, GA. You wouldn't by chance have his e-mail address would you? OR if that doesn't seem right to you, give him mine, joegerardi@yahoo.com and ask him to mail me. Thanks. ..Joe Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 SE-1 News: There is one selling on Ebay, currently at $800, though there's six days left on the auction. Marino, my prayers are with you on this one. Because I'm a nice guy (and want to show off my UBB chops), here's a direct link: SE-1 on eBay For more Studio Electronics info, try contacting the guys at the drum machine museum . Despite their name they carry tons of analog synth gear (I may buy my Sherman from them) including the whole Studio Electronics lineup, as well as the updated SE-1 and the Omega 2/8. Their prices are pretty reasonable, not rock bottom but not list or MAP crap either. They also seem to be intelligent guys and have lots of info available on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Joe (and others http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif, I'm sure that you'll find Vince Michael's website to be of interest. You can find him here: http://www.beadmusic.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted February 1, 2001 Author Share Posted February 1, 2001 Steve, thanks a lot for the links. Unfortunately, the guy ships only in the USA, and I'd be a bit worried myself purchasing a synthesizer from another continent. I mean, I DID buy synthesizers in the USA, but I was there at the time... The price, however, seems very good, really unheard of here in Italy. I'd bet that SE-1 will end in the hands of someone from this forum... marino This message has been edited by marino on 01-31-2001 at 08:51 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 marino, he looks like a store owner who doesn't want to be stuck figuring out international shipping. If you can figure it out for him he'd probably do it.. It would be quite funny if someone from this thread bought it instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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