Live keyboard sound rig?

[Dave Bryce]

I have been talking to a couple different manufacturers recently about what keyboard guys want for a live sound system, and I am curious to hear what folks have to say on the subject. Here's a few questions to get things started:

 

Do most of you playing live tote a small PA, or are you more inclined to use combo amps?

 

Do you run mono or stereo?

 

What is more important to you - portability/ease of setup, or quality of sound?

 

Do you think that a two-way speaker system is sufficient, or are you one of those people who say that keyboards are waaaay too full range and dynamic to be using anything less than a three-way enclosure? Is it worth having to pay more to get that?

 

Do some of you have both: a big rig, and a down 'n dirty solution that the size of the gig dictates what you use?

 

Whaddaya think? What other factors have I overlooked?

 

dB

 

[Guest]

1. I don't tote shit. I am the laziest musician on earth (and that's saying a lot). I plug into the PA that I force my singer to bring.

 

2. Stereo!

 

3. Oooh, that's hard...portability, at some point, has to take precedence. Until the point that my portable system sounds so bad that I'll sacrifice for something heavier/bulkier.

 

4. Two way is usually okay. Then again, I'm not that good of a player, so I'm usually struggling to play (much less hear how good/bad I sound).

 

5. Yes. I have three synths, and there's one that doesn't move under any circumstance. I guess that counts.

 

6. No, I guess that's all.

 

- Jeff, TASCAM Guy

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by jklopmeyer@tascam.com:

5. Yes. I have three synths, and there's one that doesn't move under any circumstance. I guess that counts.

- Jeff, TASCAM Guy

 

Sorry - I was unclear. I meant do people have two different sound systems...like, do you have a mini-PA for bigger gigs, and something like a Keyboard Cube that you use for smaller gigs? That was what I did..

 

dB

[Guest]

Ahhh, I get it. No, I've really never been a big user of dedicated keyboard amps myself. Just slap me into the PA and I'm good to go.

 

- Jeff, TASCAM Guy

[guestuserguestuser.com]

First off, I really don't appreciate having to become

a "member" of a site, just to post a reply.

It means one more password I have to keep track of, which is kind of a PITA. Tends to make stay away from sites like that. Now that that's off my chest...

 

>> Do most of you playing live tote a small PA, or are

>> you more inclined to use combo amps?

 

I like to use either powered speakers or combo amps. The

factors for me are that it sounds good, that it doesn't

weigh too much (since I have to haul it myself), and that

it's quick and easy to set up (since I'm always in a hurry).

I would actually prefer combo amps, but the choices are very

limited. It seems that no-one is making really

high-quality keyboard combo amps. A couple of manufacturers

make decent combo amps, but the ones that are decent are all

too big and heavy (such as the Roland KC500). What I want

are light-weight, high quality, and useful features. I

tried the Barbetta amps, but I found that I wasn't too

impressed by the sound.

 

Right now I'm considering buying two of those Mackie SRM450

PA speakers, and carrying a small mixer. But if I could

find a really good light-weight (i.e. 40 lbs or less),

high-quality combo amp, I'd buy two of those.

 

>> Do you run mono or stereo?

 

This is an interesting issue. I like to run in stereo.

Most keyboards nowadays have stereo outputs, and often they

sound distinctly better in stereo. So, for my on-stage

monitoring, I like to be in stereo.

 

However, PA systems are usually mono, so if I'm going to

provide a feed to the main PA mixer, it should be mono. So

this presents a problem. How do I run in stereo for myself,

and mono for the main PA? I wish someone would come up with

a solution for this. Ideally, keyboards should have two

separate main outputs - one in stereo, and one mono, but no

keyboard has this. Also, this should be an option on

mixers, or on combo amps.

 

>> What is more important to you - portability/ease of

>> setup, or quality of sound?

 

It's the wrong question. It's not a matter of which one is

more important. That suggests that one should sacrifice one

for the other. That's the wrong approach. The right

approach should be that these are both very important, and

neither one should be sacrificed.

 

>> Do you think that a two-way speaker system is sufficient, or

>> are you one of those people who say that keyboards are

>> waaaay too full range and dynamic to be using anything less

>> than a three-way enclosure? Is it worth having to pay more

>> to get that?

 

I've never thought about it. It's too technical a question

for me. That's a question for speaker enclosure designers.

As a musician, all I care about is how it sounds.

 

>> Do some of you have both: a big rig, and a down 'n dirty

>> solution that the size of the gig dictates what you use?

 

I don't have two systems, but I'd like to. The way I

approach it is that I use two powered speakers (or combo

amps), and that if it's a small gig, I only take one of

them.

 

>> Whaddaya think? What other factors have I overlooked?

 

I think it's an important question that more manufacturers

should consider. As for overlooked factors, see my comments

about simultaneous stereo and mono outputs.

 

Regards,

Richard Whitehouse

 

 

[This message has been edited by guestuser@guestuser.com (edited 10-14-2000).]

[Punchmo]

Hello Dave,

 

Last time going out, a few years ago, I used 2, 3 way monitors, Crown power and a Mackie 3204 on stage. Speakers directly to the left and right of my keyboard rig. It gave me inspiration. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

If it was our sound system, it was stereo...if not, oh well, sweeps weren't the same out front. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/mad.gif

 

Sound quality was more important then giving up on sound quality.

 

Definetly 3 way speakers!

 

If I went to a jam, I hoped a B-3 would sitting there. If I had to take something, it would be a Kurzweil.

 

I took waaaay too much stuff out live, 4 keyboards, 2 racks, 2 speakers, stands, boxes of cables...all in pursuit of the sound quality thing. This was all for local/regional gigs. Got tired and sold the van. Moved all the stuff into my converted horse barn, recording studio and now turn it on when guitar band clients come in and want production ideas.

 

I am still very much into keys and am looking for a new toy. Maybe the new Alesis thing?

 

I am not a great player but can get my point across. I have been hanging/lurking on the recording, producer, engineering forums for a couple of months. With 5 years as a studio owner and, 30 years as a keyboard player, I will really enjoy The Keyboard Corner!

 

BTW, anybody still toting Hammonds and Leslies around?

 

Steve

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by skp@cvns.net:

Hello Dave,

 

Last time going out, a few years ago, I used 2, 3 way monitors, Crown power and a Mackie 3204 on stage. Speakers directly to the left and right of my keyboard rig. It gave me inspiration. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Steve

 

I hear that...I had a very peculiar way of doing it when I had my huge rig in the '80s (Battlestar Bryce, my bandmates called it). I had a huge 3-way TOA 380SE directly behind me, and a 2-way JBL cabaret series monitor right in front of me. I still ran them in stereo - I found that I liked it better than the standard left/right thing...made it sound like I was inside the sound. Plus, the different characteristics of the mismatched speakers made for a really excellent effect - I'm sure it would have bothered me left and right, but front and back it worked great! Big nasty 1100 watt power amp pushing them...very inspirational! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

dB

 

[Randyland]

Maybe I'm just a loser, but I really like using inear monitors, as long as there's a mic or two letting some crowd noise in. Sometimes you need a sub nearby, but it really depends on the type of music you're playing. I've played bass in a large number of shows just using IEM's, and feeling the mains, and it worked very well (not to mention that setup time and space requirements were reduced significantly.) Just a thought....

[Erik Norlander]

Hi folks,

 

I love this topic.

 

I love this topic because there is no easy solution that I know of for amplifying live keyboards. The little combo amps just don't cut it -- they're too small, too weak, and their frequency response is ... uh ... less than ideal. Most PA cabinets are voiced wrong for keyboards, and most guitar amps sound like ... guitar amps.

 

I find that 10" and 18" speakers work the best for the kinds of sounds that I like, which range from acoustic and electric piano sounds to aggressive synth brass and Moog sweeps and leads. Some strings and orchestral sounds as well, but generally I prefer Mellotron and Chamberlin samples to other samples. I'm not real big on the glassy, chimey, shimmery type sounds. 12" and 15" always seems a bit weird sounding for my taste in keyboard sounds (except organ, which sounds great through 12"s).

 

I do use a Roland KC-500 for non-critical rehearsing or programming purposes only, but this kind of amp just gets eaten alive by live drums and (God forbid) a guitar amp.

 

So what do I do when playing with a full band? The answer is, well, heavy.

 

I use a stereo biamped system for the synths consisting of two old Peavey powered 2x10 cabinets with high powered horns (300W each) and then an 18" Gauss subwoofer in a separate cabinet crossed over at around 100Hz. The subwoofer is mono, the Peavey 2x10 cabs are run in stereo (two powered cabinets). The subwoofer is powered by an Alesis Splatica, er, Matica 900 bridged in mono.

 

If that doesn't wear out my 33 year old body enough, I also play a Hammond. Yes, a Hammond. The real deal. And it's freakin' heavy just like everyone says.

 

I have the usual multipin Leslie connectors on the organ itself, and then I have had the usual line out mod installed. At minimum, I run one Leslie 122 and then the line out into a 50W Marshall JCM800 through a 4x12 cabinet. (Rock n' roll, dude!)

 

For larger gigs, I use a second Leslie 122 which I borrow or rent. My own Leslie 122 has JBL components which seem to go a little louder and definitely sound better than the old stock components. But I kept the original 40W tube amp rather than replacing it with one of Keyboard Products high power solid state amps. I just think the Leslie amp sounds better, and the overdrive is ... well, in a word, perfect.

 

Whew! So what does it take for me to hear myself live? Here's the list:

 

2 Peavey 2x10 + horn 300W powered cabinets

1 Custom subwoofer cabinet w/Gauss 18"

1 Alesis Matica 900 amp

1 old Furman crossover

1 50W Marshall JCM800 amp

1 Marshall 4x12 cabinet

1-2 Leslie 122 cabinets

 

Yikes. It looks even heavier when I write it all out. BTW, when I chose these Peavey cabinets (over 10 years ago), I compared them to other cabinets by EV, JBL, TOA and Yamaha. The Peaveys sounded the best. No one was more shocked than me as I have never considered Peavey to make great speakers. But these cabinets interact with my keyboards better than anything else I've heard.

 

I have heard of some folks using the Eden 4x10 w/tweeter bass cabinets for keyboards. That sounds interesting to me, and I will have to check it out sometime. I'm also interested to try a tube power amp with the 10"s. But I'll likely stick with the massive brute force clunky solid state boy for the sub.

 

Cheers,

 

Erik

[Uh Clem]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Do most of you playing live tote a small PA, or are you more inclined to use combo amps?

 

I get by with as little as I can - I just need something to localize the sound for me - I can get the rest from the house PA/Monitors.

 

If it's a small club where the band needs its own PA, I think hauling a ton of backline in is nuts - we used to do that. It just creates a ton of mush and no one can hear anything.

 

I can blow up a small venue with a pair of SRM450s for a PA (maybe add some subs) - The Roland combo KC300 is decent enough as a monitor for this and has line out in mono or stereo to feed the PA.

 

Do you run mono or stereo?

 

I prefer Stereo - PA as well if I have anything to do with it.

 

What is more important to you - portability/ease of setup, or quality of sound?

 

Portability - I just need to monitor, the house is going to sound how it sounds.

 

Do you think that a two-way speaker system is sufficient, or are you one of those people who say that keyboards are waaaay too full range and dynamic to be using anything less than a three-way enclosure? Is it worth having to pay more to get that?

 

I guess if I had a bunch of roadies then I'd use whatever sounded great. I always felt that a two way was a bonus. Naturally the house should be 3-way and I want to rumble the floor with the subs.

 

Do some of you have both: a big rig, and a down 'n dirty solution that the size of the gig dictates what you use?

 

Yes, the KC-300 or nothing but the PA monitor http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Whaddaya think? What other factors have I overlooked?

 

dB

 

I like the concept of the new Roland Drum speaker setup with the two mains and sub - in my studio I use my KC-300 as a sub of sorts on the floor with two MSP5's up on a shelf for mains. A portable version of this that is easy to setup might be cool.

 

[This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 10-16-2000).]

[Erik Norlander]

I guess the biggest reason why I carry such an enormous amplification rig is that I don't trust the house to make my gear sound right. Typically I have found that a regular house engineer will tend to automatically boost 10K by 10+ dB on any keyboards coming into his board, which just sounds awful. If it's a big venue, okay, different situation. Then likely we use our own sound guy or at least someone with whom we can adequately consult in order to present the band properly. Okay, I've done too many lousy gigs on the Sunset Strip -- I admit it! Although I have also done some big festival dates where the (necessary to use him) house soundman was equally awful.

 

In a little club, I want my stage rig to be able to fill the house if necessary. And I've found myself more than once in exactly that situation -- something went wrong with the DIs, etc. In a bigger venue, I want to at least get some tone coming off the stage, and I also want my sound to get underneath me a bit. Call it incentive to play well...

 

Guitarists and bass players have had this luxury all along. Even if the PA goes down completely, they're still right there blasting out of their amp. I take the same approach. Now granted, I play loud rock n' roll -- if I was doing a different style of music, maybe such a massive amp rig wouldn't be necessary. But in my case, even the Roland KC-500 doesn't come close to cutting it.

 

And yes, I am a proud sponsor of the cartage company and roadie culture.

 

Cheers,

 

Erik

[Guest]

Try a Spirit powered mixer with 35watts per channel,it is so small but will drive a pair of 12" twin cones(which don't need tweeters) at 4 ohm

[marino]

I used to carry a Gallien-Kreuger stereo system. I had modified it, and it was just beautiful. When that was stolen (aaaargghhh) I bought another combo amp, but I ended up not using it.

The reason is, I was playing more and more big stages and less small clubs. So I started using a very simple Roland M120 mixer; 12 channels in one rack space. From there I feed the house PA with the balanced master outs, and I rely on the house monitors.

But if I come to a place where I really can't have good monitors and/or a decent sound man, I just ask for a monitor line and plug it in the "monitor" input of the M120. This input has a separate bus with its own volume control, and of course it is not sent back to the master outs. Then I can choose to monitor with a pair of open headphones or a small amp, making my own mix of keyboards and the general mix.

I don't need a big sound onstage, only a clean one. I know how my sounds come out on big PA speakers anyway. I've used this system for the past three years, and I'm totally used to it.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

I recently discovered the Genz Benz UC4 Universal Combo Amp. I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has experience with this amp. From the specs, it sounds like the ideal combo amp for keyboards. I think a pair of these on stage would be ideal. Or just use one for smaller gigs. They're small and light enough that you could carry two to a gig, but not too small. 135 watts into a 12" woofer and compression horn, weight 45 lbs. It has a feature set that seems ideal: built in balanced D.I., internal fan cooling, speaker stand mountable, phantom power for the XLR inputs in case you use a phantom powered mike, has a shape that you can either stand it upright, or tilt it back to a monitor-type position, has ground lift switches, etc., etc. Very well thought out.

 

I plan to audition one soon, was wondering if anyone here has used them.

[Erik Norlander]

Originally posted by guestuser@guestuser.com:

I recently discovered the Genz Benz UC4 Universal Combo Amp. ... 135 watts into a 12" woofer and compression horn, weight 45 lbs.

 

I have found that 12" speakers only work well for organ sounds. They don't seem to be able to reproduce enough bottom for pianos and deep synths, and the midrange always comes out a bit odd as well. I have used a few of the Barbetta powered cabinets with 12"s, and they left me unsatisfied. Same goes for 12" speaker guitar amps, although then you lose the top as well because of the absence of a tweeter.

 

I have found that 10" speakers reproduce the fundamental timbre of most keyboard sounds better than 12"s, and when combined with some kind of subwoofer (and tweeter, of course!) gives the best result.

 

For a single, all in one combo amp, I'm not happy with any of them, but the best available IMO is the Roland KC-500 (15" and tweeter).

 

Cheers,

 

Erik (you can always count on me for an opinion)

[Ernie Rideout]

I've used different types of amps, depending on the venue. For rehearsals, I always try to use whatever lousy PA is available, just to save my back from having to tote a combo amp. For awhile I was using one of those old GK keyboard combo amps, which they unfortunately stopped making a few years ago. [No, that wasn't me in the early-90s GK ads ;-)] I always liked the Barbetta amps and Roland KC combos.

 

For small venues or coffee house gigs, I found Barbettas easiest to transport, but that the Roland KC500 gave me the best sound.

 

For a full band club gig with a multi-keyboard rig, the combo amps never cut it for me. The biggest problem was clarity of sound. If the combo amp could crank out enough volume - which some could in certain situations - I always felt I was losing clarity. Multiple parts on different keyboards would sound muddy.

 

The best rig for me has been to run my signal through a little Roland line submixer, then into a power amp with a minimum of 700W, then either to two stereo cabs or to a high cab and a subwoofer (I use the Bag End ELF system, which though expensive, sounds great).

Having that headroom is the only way I've been able to make sure my parts get delineated.

 

For my organ sounds, I use a Motion Sound Pro 3, and run the low-end output into the submixer. Can't beat it, short of dragging the real thing around.

 

When I can trust the PA, I'll run my line outs into it.

 

Thanks for bringing the topic up, David! whatever happened to that tube keyboard amp you and I talked about?

 

Ernie Rideout

Keyboard Magazine

 

[This message has been edited by erideout@musicplayer.com (edited 10-26-2000).]

 

[This message has been edited by erideout@musicplayer.com (edited 10-26-2000).]

[x factor music]

well, i'm not really a live keyboard player, but i sequence all of our keyboard parts (i'm actually the singer). i own a roland jv1010, alesis qs6.1, alesis d4, and a yamaha mdf. the mdf is THE answer to live sequencing, and the solution to a lot of the problems i've seen other people face while trying the same thing. i set a static user bank in the JV1010 (organ, strings, voices, analog synth sounds) and send bank changes into the QS - keeps down on the clutter and makes it easier to mix the piano, say, against an organ part in a ballad. then i run a click track through to the midi in on our drummer's d4 (he triggers his acoustic set), which is run out to his wireless in ear monitor. all in all, it works out very well.

 

since i am rarely behind the keyboards playing (although i do for a few songs), we run the keys direct and route through the stage monitors.

 

i have found that the roland piano sounds, while very realistic (particularly the session exp sounds), they are weak as hell, and cannot cut through the mix of a very loud rock and roll band. so i use the piano sounds on the QS, along with the LFO organ sound, the Obhe Horns sound, and a Fat Mini sound for the bass parts in our dance songs.

 

nothing like what you guys are describing, but it gets the job done for us!

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by erideout@musicplayer.com:

 

Thanks for bringing the topic up, David! whatever happened to that tube keyboard amp you and I talked about?

 

 

I couldn't get anyone to buy into it, actually. I even tried talking Aspen Pittman (the Groove Tubes guy) into doing one - no luck. Everyone that I pitched on the idea told me that keyboard players would not find a tube combo keyboard amp to be something that they would want to purchase.

 

I would've... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

dB

[ebbrecordsyahoo.com]

Right now, I just bring my keys to the gig; my band has a monitor system with a sound board and all. I my previous band, I owned the PA and brought my monitor system that way.

 

My preference is to go in-ear monitoring (which is happening while we speak).

If I have a smaller gig, I have a couple of amps that I bring as well as a couple of 15" two ways and a pair of 12" two ways.

 

Right now we play in Mono (trying to get them to change their mind) http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif

 

My system of choice would be a toos up between two different ones actually.

 

1. Bose Concert System - has two pair of 901's in a poly enclosure and a pair of 12 subs (that personally kick major &*%. And they are all Bose too and they are one of the best).

2. The new Mackie stuff. They have this new 3-way cab that has 4 12" woofers in them, a mid and a high and have built in amps. These babies are really cool. And od course you have to have subs and I would want two of the 18" sub cabs that Mackie has out now as well. Having that setup would be really cool and very powerful.

[Botch.]

I, too, just purchased an in-ear monitoring system, and intend to let the band fight it out how much keys are in the vocal monitors/out the mains. I had been using two Peavey 12" woofer/horn speakers powered by a Carver 100-watt/channel amp and Roland M12 mixer. This outfit gets painfully loud at home, but half the time wasn't loud enough on stage (Scary, I know). I ran stereo at first but soon went mono; used one speaker for myself and let the other guys point the other one as they wished. I went to the in-ears for several reasons: reduce setup weight (I'm over 40 and getting weaker); clear hearing of myself; block out the drummer's cymbals and my guitarist's TWO FULL stereo Marshall stacks; finally my own personal control over my keys/vocal mix; and reduce required floor space, which on Utah stages is at a premium.

 

For keys, I'm now using a Kurzweil 88-key and an EX-5 on an A-frame stand (more protection than the Apex style) and a Nord lead and DX-7 as a rack synth controller on a second A-frame, provided the stage is big enough. On small stages I forgo the second A-frame and the DX, and just set the Nord on an x-frame kinda underneath the first A-frame (this is painful when you're 6'5").

[Botch.]

I, too, just purchased an in-ear monitoring system, and intend to let the band fight it out how much keys are in the vocal monitors/out the mains. I had been using two Peavey 12" woofer/horn speakers powered by a Carver 100-watt/channel amp and Roland M12 mixer. This outfit gets painfully loud at home, but half the time wasn't loud enough on stage (Scary, I know). I ran stereo at first but soon went mono; used one speaker for myself and let the other guys point the other one as they wished. I went to the in-ears for several reasons: reduce setup weight (I'm over 40 and getting weaker); clear hearing of myself; block out the drummer's cymbals and my guitarist's TWO FULL stereo Marshall stacks; finally my own personal control over my keys/vocal mix; and reduce required floor space, which on Utah stages is at a premium.

 

For keys, I'm now using a Kurzweil 88-key and an EX-5 on an A-frame stand (more protection than the Apex style) and a Nord lead and DX-7 as a rack synth controller on a second A-frame, provided the stage is big enough. On small stages I forgo the second A-frame and the DX, and just set the Nord on an x-frame kinda underneath the first A-frame (this is painful when you're 6'5").

[makalei]

I use the new JBL G2's 300 on the low and 100 on the high's

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by makalei@ij.net:

I use the new JBL G2's 300 on the low and 100 on the high's

 

I haven't heard these yet...how's the low end? I found that the first ones were noticeably lacking, especially at moderate to high volumes...the G2s are supposed to be much better in that respect. Did you get a chance to A/B them against the older ones?

 

dB

[makalei]

Yes I did a/b them and there is a noticeable difference

[Sergievsky]

Doesn't anybody use the Motion Sound amps? It seems they have some amps that are suited real well for keys, like their stereo amp that has a leslie in it, and some that have tubes. I would like to hear some experiences with these.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Doesn't anybody use the Motion Sound amps? It seems they have some amps that are suited real well for keys, like their stereo amp that has a leslie in it, and some that have tubes. I would like to hear some experiences with these.

 

Everything of theirs that I have ever played with has been excellent. I would happily recommend and/or own just about any piece of their gear.

 

dB

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Doesn't anybody use the Motion Sound amps?

I've got an endorsement with Motion-Sound and acquired a KBR-3D for an arena tour this past winter. On the tour we pretty much threw a blanket over it like a Leslie and ran the XLR's to the house, amplifying my Roland VK-7. The other keys went straight to the house. After the tour I had the opportunity to use the KBR in club settings as well as studios and am pleased to announce that the little amp kicks big bootie.

It's not the amp that you want to use without sound reinforcement, i.e, it's not going to cut over your guitar player's Marshall stack. In clubs and fair settings I'd have the sound guys run the amp signal into my wedge just a bit to fill things out.

The clean channel with its stereo expansion is pretty surprising. The QS8 sounds absolutely huge through it. (You'll probably use the stereo effect in those situations where space is an issue and you're jammed up against the amp.)

In the studio the KBR-3D records like a perfectly miked Leslie 147. The fact that you can adjust the balance of horn signal and low rotor signal means that you can tailor the outputs for your personal tastes. I defy anyone to tell the difference between the KBR and a Leslie on a recording. (Geez, that's bold...well, it's pretty damn good.) The tube overdrive is warm, chunky, hairy...insert your favorite adjective.

Down sides: It does have the tendency to sound a little "boxy" but I haven't heard a keyboard amp that didn't. And when the amp clips--and you will push it to clipping--it gets ugly in a hurry.

Just keep saying to yourself...it's only 70 lbs. It's only 70 lbs. Go buy one.

K.

[ITGITC]

 

Time...

 

it makes looking back kinda interesting.

 

[mate stubb]

Holy necromancy, Batman!

[DanS]

You lookin' for something Tom?