Chip McDonald Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 ... and was amazed that I liked a good bit of stuff on it. Saw a guy named Pete Yorn; had a really cool Americana sound with a non-played out vocal style, very cool drumming... A group called Ours, which featured a Jeff Buckley wann-be singer, but had a neat hook with a very cool vibe. Neat two guitar arrangement.... An english power pop band with a Mod look, I can't remember the name: girl playing Wurlitzer. The band never stopped moving, totally spastic but rocked the whole time; great energy. A metal band that was raging against some sort of women oppression in the maquiladoras in Mexico, but didn't sound like RATM... Out of tune vocals, but a really strange and curious arrangement, intense anger. Interesting. The point to this post being: Why are these bands second-tier? Who decided this? The Pete Yorn tune could be on the radio right now, the video well made, probably the Ours tune as well; it must be political? I think the industry is screwing themselves. They're not trying to develope any bands, they're not getting behind anyone unless some bozo thinks it is somehow a round peg for a round hole.... Boring. http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 how exactly does getting their videos played on national cable make these bands "second tier"? They couldn't ask for better exposure. Maybe I'm not clear on what you mean by "second tier". Matt McGinley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Hi Chip, Geez, Destiny's Child was 2nd tier about 6 months ago, now these girls are everywhere! I'd be happy with the 2nd tier position. I think MTV-2 judges these 2nd string bands by sales figures. I dunno? In two days, it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 You know what we need? A channel that's devoted to music and music videos! Not cartoons. Not "real-life" dramas of people not being able to cope with their differences. Not the inside of an artists home (unless that's in the video). Just 24 hour videos! Throw in some music news! Tell me when my favorite band is playing in town! You could have an hour or two of videos from bands that aren't famous yet! Oh, wait... that used to be MTV. My mistake! Bill Murphy www.murphonics.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 Right on the money Murph! If you want to see vids on EmptyV you have to watch at 2 AM. I don't have MTV2, but I hear they play move vids than regular MTV. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 hey murph and Phil, call your cable co. and demand MTV2 (actually, I think it's called M2). It's what MTV used to be in the early 80's - all videos all the time, with some news and such thrown in here and there. I started getting it a couple years ago on the satellite at work, before they even started showing ads, and it was _really_ cool then. They didn't have to answer to advertisers so they could get away with some really edgy stuff. It's still pretty cool now, I'm constantly catching new, interesting artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 yep M2 is the all music channel now. MTV has move to a "pop culture" channel. M@ still plays shitty videos with decent ones mixed in. i wouldnt call it 2nd tier either... they play mainstream videos as well, depends on when you watch it. they also have concerts on it i think. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 The music "Industry" has never developed anything ever and they probably never will.They wait for something to happen and find a way to market it.Then repeat it over and over and over and over and over until it's safe to copy something else and market that so they can repeat that over and over and over and over and over......... "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 6, 2001 Author Share Posted May 6, 2001 Originally posted by Hippie: I'd be happy with the 2nd tier position. I think MTV-2 judges these 2nd string bands by sales figures. I dunno? Oh no, of course I would love to be in such a position.... but I don't think sales figures into it totally as much as label push and politics.... There's certainly been crap on MTV that flopped. Suit themselves. Apparently it hasn't occurred to MTV execs that they originally became successful for merely playing MUSIC videos, I suppose eventually one day in a meeting at MTV/Warner some guy that makes $50,000 a year will pop up and go: "Hey guys.... we've been doing some studies... and we've got this great NEW idea!" "Here's how it works: we do NOTHING but play music videos - now get this - 24 HOURS A DAY! What do you think?" http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 i think i even heard that slogan on M2, "its what MTV used to be" da/ da da/ da da da da alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 <<"Here's how it works: we do NOTHING but play music videos - now get this - 24 HOURS A DAY! What do you think?">> chip, here's a big reason why they don't do that anymore. and it has nothing to do with MTV per se. as most people know, tv advertising rates are determined by ratings. the ratings are determined by nielsen sample households (1500+ households nationally are wired with boxes that monitor what is being watched. those numbers are then used to calculate the whole countries viewing habits). but the problem is that in order for a show to "rate" it has to be tuned in for at least 7 minutes by a household. most music videos aren't 7 minutes. hence MTV wasn't getting 'real' ratings even though everyone knew it had brand recognition. this is why several years ago MTV and VH1 moved towards shows versus videos. the shows would get them official ratings and ad dollars. that is why you do see videos, you see them packaged a million different ways inside 'theme' shows i.e. TRL, and Popup video on VH1. it sucks, but its true. unfortunately all the cable channels have taken turns for the worse as well (i.e. rescue 911 on the learning channel!) it's not unlike FM radio in the old days...once big business took over...it was over! -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: determined by ratings. the ratings are determined by nielsen sample households (1500+ households nationally are wired with boxes that monitor The Nielsen ratings are the worst, and one day the industry will realize how stupid they are for basing their entire war plan on them.... I'm still pissed they took MASH off the air because the Nielsens showed nobody was watching... and MUSIC Television decides to not show MUSIC TELEVISION because of 1,500 people scattered randomly among a population of how many hundred MILLION? Ahhhg.. http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 chip, yeah the nielsen's suck but it's a fact. as someone who helped to launch a national cable network years ago, i've had many experiences with them. the first nasty one being that you have to pay to get the nielsen ratings! $20,000 bucks a month will get you some basic information from nielsen. on the plus side, one of our board members was a nielsen household. he left his tv on our channel 24 hours a day... fair? not really, but unfortunately it's all a game and the viewer always loses! it just plain costs too much to have a cable network because there are only a finite number of satellites in the sky and they are very pricey. in addition analog cable systems only have capacity for x number of channels and space is at a premium. most networks pay cable systems up to 5 bucks per potential viewer to carry their channel! how's that for payola? -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 neilson rating are so dumb. with all this digital tv, they SHOULD be able to get accurate readings down to the second for what EVERYONE [not just 1500 people] are watching. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 <> careful what you ask for... most people aren't too keen on having a "big brother" type of setup in their home. even though that's what internet "cookies" do.... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted May 8, 2001 Author Share Posted May 8, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: ratings! $20,000 bucks a month will get you some basic information from nielsen. $20,000 gets you 20 smart people to go around bars, malls, video stores, campuses, and ask people "hey.. what shows do you like on tv? Do you like Show X?", they do that for a few weeks all over, and you have a much better picture of what's going on. 1,500 empirically detached people isn't as good as a human brain assimilating the answers of 1,500 people interviewed personally, not connected to any rating system. Not as comfy to show to a dimwit CEO who goes off to a Bahamanian non-reality every weekend, but better. It's weird... You'll hear people talking about how they like a show, or a song, but it doesn't show up on the Corporate Radar. That's how Nirvana almost didn't happen... television shows have to be the same way, suddenly everyone is talking about something from a show but it's not "known". Phenomena like that is how the human race gets screwed, when human appreciation of common sense interpretation of reality gets skewered by Statistical Data. Then again, we do live in the era of King George, so I guess I should get used to it, huh? http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 oh believe me, the networks send people out to malls, etc to get opinions. but that's considered research. the catch 22 is that you need ad dollars to make money and the ad rates are set according to ratings, and the ratings are deterimend by neilsen. the ad rates are determined twice a year. that's when you have what's called "sweeps" weeks where the networks pull out all their best stuff to up viewership/ratings and ultimately ad revenue.... like i said, its big game... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted May 8, 2001 Share Posted May 8, 2001 What a mess. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatoriJoe Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Originally posted by Chip McDonald: An english power pop band with a Mod look, I can't remember the name: girl playing Wurlitzer. The band never stopped moving, totally spastic but rocked the whole time; great energy. A metal band that was raging against some sort of women oppression in the maquiladoras in Mexico, but didn't sound like RATM... Out of tune vocals, but a really strange and curious arrangement, intense anger. Interesting. Chip, don't know if you are interested but the first band is, I think, The (International) Noise Conspiracy. Is a Wurlitzer an organ type thing. They fit the description. They are well-respected in the underground and they're really political. The lead singer sung for Refused which some critics say "Breathed fresh life into punk rock" and what not. It was like Black Flag molesting Pink Floyd with The Beatles and Aphex Twin doing their thing in the corner. T(I)NC have the 60's garage sound and have the long Beatles haircut...they are signed on Epitaph. The second band is At the Drive-In. They have been around for like 5 years and have released 3 full-length cds. Their latest was the most popular fueled by the single "One Armed Scissor" which got medium air-play on MTV during the before noon hours. I saw it a couple times during my TV Media class 8:25-9:21. I think that the cd might have hit platinum. I don't know...anyway, they opened for Rage in 2000 which is ironic that you mentioned them. At the Drive-In broke up once they tasted success doing a travelling festival with Limp Bizkit. A girl had a heart attack in the pit during it (not their set) but it fueled their belief in anti-moshing. After some bad touring experiences on the latest tour where the crowd wouldn't behave they took a prolonged break...saying they'll get back together when they feel like it. Oh, and they were raging against this place in Mexico where men took women to rape and then killed them and buried them. I think I'm right unless there are other bands that fit your descriptions http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Oh yeah, the point was that these two bands in particular do not/did not want the success of being on MTV. I think that T(I)NC would not mind getting their message across but haven't signed to a major to do so. Joey This message has been edited by SatoriJoe on 07-10-2001 at 02:26 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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