musicman1ovation.net Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 I'm looking forward to getting into VST/MAS soft synths. I've downloaded working demos of Native Instruments' B4 (B3 clone which is amazing sounding) and Pro-52 (Prophet 5 clone with is ditto - amazing sounding). I'm already happy with my Hammond XK-2, so I'll stick with it. I might have included the Waldorf Attack drum thing, but don't know enough about it yet. My first impression from reading was that it was maybe more electronica oriented. I like the idea of having some of those sounds available (808/909), and once in a while I even lean in the dance direction, but for the most part, any drum thing I do comes from a more traditional place, and my use of analog synths is more like rock music that has a synth player than all electronic. Sometimes with instrumentals that is not so. Anyway, so far the soft synths I am interested in are: Pro-52 ModelE FM7 Waldorf PPG Wave 2.V EVP73 / EVP88 LM4 / LM4 Drum Kit Editor These are all synths of some kind. I am very interested in either a soft sampler or soft sample playback. I mainly want to be able to get sample CDs of various types (Akai, Emu, Roland, Kurzweil, etc.) and utilize them. I know there is more than one choice in this realm, and I haven't looked into it enough to list one. I am sure there are other killer synths out there, too. I would absolutely love an accurate Oberheim SEM emulator with around 16-note polyphony. And there are others, too. If anyone know of something great not listed, please pass it on. I've included information about everything on my list below. I am flabbergasted that I could probably get ALL of these listed for about $900.00, and possibly less. I'd be thrilled at the prospect of the first four, a SEM, and a great sampler/sample-playback program. What have I left out particularly in the realm of synth clones or physical models? Check out these specifications: Pro-52 - (Native Instruments) They call it "The second coming of legend!". Having downloaded the working demo, I didn't feel like quibbling with that. It can actually import Prophet 5 programs, plus it adds useful features without effecting authenticity (like more polyphony and built-in effects often used by Prophet 5 folks, which you can use or not). Aside from its Prophet 5 features, it includes: Theoretically unlimited number of voices (depending on CPU power) 512 freely programmable preset memories 512 selected classic analog sounds preprogrammed 64 up-to-date sounds by vintage-synth legend John Bowen Velocity sensitivity (optional) Real-time MIDI control and automation of all parameters Two operating modes: analog warmth or digital accuracy Amount of analog inaccuracies freely adjustable Effects unit for chorus, flanging and echo, MIDI-syncable Input for external audio signals Fully compatible to Prophet-5 MIDI-SysEx program data ModelE (Steinberg) This is a nicely laid out traditional analog synth. Whether or not it is basically a clone (with a few added features) of some specific vintage synth, but without the name or at least some hint I don't know, featuring, in part: 3 Oscillators & Noise Generator 6 Waveforms per Oscillator 32 to 2 range 2-Pole and 4-Pole Low pass filter Filter Modulation and Key Tracking 2 Envelope Generators Up to 64 voices per Instrument Assignable velocity routing Stereo Spread 16 multitimbral parts 8 Outputs per Instrument FM7 (Native Instruments) - This one I have not heard. I think its release is pending, not sure exactly. They call it "The power of digital Accurate - Vibrant - Expressive." Considering the B4 and Pro-52, my expectations are high as to its accuracy. And considering the features, if it lives up to their others, I'm elated. Taking FM synthesis to a new level, it can "read the complete sound library from the classic FM synths." That's synths, not synth! "The FM7 can read all programs from the original DX7, DX7-II, DX11, TX81Z, DX21, DX27, DX100, TX802 and reproduce the sounds of these machines exactly." To quote Will Smith, "Damn!" Anyone that has ever gotten into FM sound design is going to go nuts for the features: FM synthesizer with extended sound architecture Reads and faithfully reproduces sound programs of the FM classics Full matrix frequency modulation with 8 operators, no fixed algorithms 6 operators with many waveforms plus distortion and analog filter operator Sophisticated graphical editors with many convenient edit functions Flexible graphical envelopes with unlimited number of stages and looping Stereo effects section with chorus, flanger delay, can be used for external audio signals I used to enjoy fooling around both with DX-7 and TX81Z programming. Having all these added features with their visual layout, being able to load in my old programs and possibly tweak from there, and the free-form arrangement of EIGHT operators?!?! Well, all I can say is "Sweet dreams!" http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Waldorf PPG Wave 2.V (Steinberg) This, according to the Steinberg website, is an "accurately modeled on the PPG Wave 2.3". I've never actually played the original, but I think I heard a demo tape or record back then, and I certainly recall the nature of synth sounds of the era. So, although one on one comparison is impossible for me, I have heard the online MP3 demos, and I was surprised how very much I liked the sound, and how usable it seemed. Short list of features: 32 wavetables each with 64 different waveforms 2 oscillators per voice Low-pass filter with Emphasis Control Graphic interface for envelope generators and Cutoff/Emphasis Synced Arpeggiator 8 way multi-timbral Up to 64 voices per unit (depending solely on CPU power) Over 700 of preprogrammed sounds included Real-time MIDI control and automation of all parameters EVP73 (Emagic) - This "Emagic Vintage Piano 73" has yet to be released. I did hear an MP3 demo of the sounds, and it seemed possibly very good from that standpoint, although considerably more variety in dynamics, playing style, and various options of the software could have told the story much better. No matter what I got from the demo, there is some confusion. There are two products: the EVP88, which is only for Logic's plugin platform, and the EVP73 which supports VST 2.0. They say the EVP73 is based on the same core engine as the EVP88, but I get the idea it is a watered down version. The EVP88 blurb says it "provides Logic users with the in-demand sounds of legendary electric pianos such as the Fender Rhodes Mark I & II Suitcase and Stage series, the Wurlitzer Electric Piano 200A, and the Hohner Electra Piano plus variations of these sounds." The EVP73 blurb, on the other hand: "The EVP73 provides access to arguably the most essential and influential electric piano the Fender Rhodes Stage Piano Mk I - to users of any host application capable of running VST 2.0 Instruments." Ideally, both versions would be the same... one for Logic and one for VST. But according to the blurbs it sounds like non-Logic users are getting some demerits. It sounds like there's no Mark I Stage Piano, no Mark II stage or suitcase piano, no Wurlitzer 200A, and the big blow... no Hohner Electra Piano (whatever that is... hey, I thought it was called the Pianet... and besides that, it seems like while they were at it, that "Electra" is might as well have been a Clavinet D6, but I suppose they felt like that stretched the "Vintage Piano" part of EVP). This remains to be seen. Another confusing thing: don't know if plugin uses some sort of physical modeling, multi-sampling or both. actually, it doesn't matter if it sounds good, but in general, it seems like a powerful physical model can deal with all the nuances better than a preset number of samples, even if velocity switching is involved. No matter how the EVP73 (or EVP88 for that matter) turns out, suffice it to say that I would LOVE to have an accurate model of several Rhodes configurations, a Wurlitzer 200A, and a Hohner D6 Clavinet. And if anyone wants to throw in a Hohner Pianet, I wouldn't balk as long as the rest was done thoroughly. I'm curious about the Nord Electra, but my sites are on software at the moment. LM4 - The 24-bit VST Drum Module (Steinberg) Rather than list the features, this sounds like a very utilitarian, flexible, all-purpose drum machine/sampler for any kind of music, and I gather that it could be used for everything from replacing the sounds of an acoustic drum track to putting together a very analog, techno track (if you have the sound source, and apparently it includes a good number). LM4 Drum Kit Editor - According to the website, the LM4 editor was programmed by the well known sound designer company, :wizoo: as "an indispensable utility for creating your own sets easily." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Hey musicman, it's a fun world of VST instruments, isn't it! http://www.kvr-vst.com/ is VST Grand Central on the net, a great site. The LM-4 is famous for having a certain bug- for SOME users, not all. Try before you buy. I have the Linplug RM-2, which is cheaper (45$) and IMO much better. It loads the Wizoo LM-4 kits, which have got to be the deal of the century. Recently I bought the very first sample CD of my life- the Wizoo Acoustic Drums (kits, not loops, although Wizoo makes loops too) for about 35$, what a steal! RM-2 has good pitch-shifting, too. With an 8ms latency, I can play on top of the beat enough to finally have a good-sounding real-time drum kit for recording. The FM-7 isn't out yet, but the 50$ FMHeaven is- it reads the DX-7 library. The interface is a sad specimen but the sound and performance are good judging by the demo. Buy now or wait for FM-7 at around 150$? Hm, don't know. Software samplers and Clavinets are kind of the Holy Grails of VSTi's at the moment. There's a whole slew of new samplers though, but perhaps some vaporware in the bunch? Do the search at KvR for samplers and you'll see lots of "in development". I think I'd pay just about anything for a physically modelled Clavinet that responds in a musical fashion to aftertouch. Amping and micing VSTi's is a great thing- there are many great sounds but they are "disembodied" as Eno would say. Since the sounds are so squeaky clean and noise free, the small amount of added noise of running them to say a combo and micing only adds spice. - Cameron Bobro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 I agree that the FM7 looks really cool, but all of that FM processing is processor intensive. Native Instruments recommends a G4/400 as the MINIMUM hardware platform! Orange Vocoder is an excellent VST plug-in. Sounds just like you want a vocoder to sound. Emagic's ES1 is an excellent mono synth. I've heard great things about the EXS24 sampler, but I haven't used it, myself. It's not exactly a VST instrument, but Reason is excellent. Subtractor is a top notch soft synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisencocasema.net Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Hi, I own a B4 and the LM4 but the thing I liek most is Reason. Reason blows away all VSTi's because it isn't so CPU hungry and so great sounding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Check out Loopazoid,the "free" drum VSTi.You'll find the link at KVR-VST site listed above. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 That's great! Lot's of VSTi opinions and information. I appreciate it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Originally posted by dadabobro@yahoo.com: Hey musicman, it's a fun world of VST instruments, isn't it! http://www.kvr-vst.com/ is VST Grand Central on the net, a great site. The LM-4 is famous for having a certain bug- for SOME users, not all. Try before you buy. I have the Linplug RM-2, which is cheaper (45$) and IMO much better. It loads the Wizoo LM-4 kits, which have got to be the deal of the century. Recently I bought the very first sample CD of my life- the Wizoo Acoustic Drums (kits, not loops, although Wizoo makes loops too) for about 35$, what a steal! RM-2 has good pitch-shifting, too. With an 8ms latency, I can play on top of the beat enough to finally have a good-sounding real-time drum kit for recording. The FM-7 isn't out yet, but the 50$ FMHeaven is- it reads the DX-7 library. The interface is a sad specimen but the sound and performance are good judging by the demo. Buy now or wait for FM-7 at around 150$? Hm, don't know. The KVR-VST website is a really good resource and I'm glad to add it to my bookmarks. And I will check out the RM-2. Although my primary interest in VST instruments hasn't really been drum stuff (maybe because I perceive the bulk of it as being dance/electronic oriented and/or loop-based as opposed to acoustic, and because I've got quite a collection of ROM drums anyway), the LM-4 sounded useful, and what you've said about the RM-2, like what you said about having "good-sounding real-time drum kit for recording", is the kind of thing I like to hear. I'll also look into FMHeaven. I have to admit that user interface matters to me quite a bit, though. Anything that gets my focus on tactile knob tweaking and visual feedback as opposed to lists of numbers presented in a more textual way tends to get my attention even if it costs more. But I really like being able to try out things for comparison. Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: I agree that the FM7 looks really cool, but all of that FM processing is processor intensive. Native Instruments recommends a G4/400 as the MINIMUM hardware platform! Orange Vocoder is an excellent VST plug-in. Sounds just like you want a vocoder to sound. Yeah, the FM7's specs amazed me and I liked the art nouveau synth face. I'm going to be getting a G4 anyway, and have planned on going, if not to the fastest model, probably the next to the fastest. Also, I might go one notch lower and think about one of those PCI cards that assumes the VST number crunching load. I'll have to find out a great deal about compatibility issues before proceeding, though. Oh... and depending on the cost, the Orange Vocoder sounds good, too. Thing is, I've got a Nova (which is supposed to let you input external sounds for vocoding, although I've not tried that yet) and an old Korg DVP-1 (digital voice processor), which, at the time, was a pretty big deal. I have no idea how it stacks up against the current crop. Don't even know how it is against the Nova. Vocoding isn't something I use that much, but I think it's a great effect used with discretion. Originally posted by lisenco@casema.net: I own a B4 and the LM4 but the thing I like most is Reason. Reason blows away all Visit's, because it isn't so CPU hungry and so great sounding! Do you use Reason with a non-Reason sequencer that also handles digital audio (like Digital Performer, Steinberg VST, Logic Audio, etc.)? I've heard great thing about Reason, but so far it seems like it is geared more towards electronic music, loops, and the total computer experience. I think that is amazing, but I am wanting to mix analog through a Mackie, use guitars and voices, etc., without loops, and use other synths (hardware and software). Although I think Reason may accommodate that to a point, it seems it is primarily designed as an all-in-one solution. Is that correct? Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com: Check out Loopazoid, the "free" drum VSTi.You'll find the link at KVR-VST site listed above. "Free" is good! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif So far, the only loop-oriented drum program that I've wondered about (and accidentally left out of my list, though I don't know if it is actually a VSTi kind of thing) is Steinberg VST Drum Sessions. To read about it, it reminds me of a very old product called "Drum Drops". Drum drops was either on vinyl or maybe cassette (CD?), and it consisted of drums-only recordings of various grooves, intros, tempos, etc. Old style editing tended to have to be utilized, but it was a way of giving your tune a real live drummer without resorting to the drum machines of the day (late 70s/early 80s). Apparently VST Drum Sessions put each drum on their own track, and even though they have verses and choruses to help get the show on the road, each beat is individually editable like MIDI, using ReCycle technology (I think). In a way, it isn't exactly the same as live drumming, after all that processing, but it is VERY drastically close. I am surprised I don't hear about this more. I almost get the impression that VST Drum Sessions doesn't get used much. Maybe that impression is wrong, but I never read posts about people using it. I'm wondering: has anyone here found it to be a very good way to add a real drummer to your tracks? I've not used it, but it makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Reason is definitely geared to the dance/techno market, but it's got possibilities WAY beyond that. Thing about it. It's got a killer synth, a very nice sample playback unit, a loop player, a very flexible drum computer - much more flexible than ReBirth - and a full-featured sequencer that's kind of like a simplified version of Logic. You can have as many synths, samplers, rhythm boxes, and effects as your computer can hold. I'm using if on a laptop to prototype all kinds of stuff. It's right there any time I need it. I've even sketched out some classical ideas using the sequencer with Subtractor and the sampler. One thing I'm learning quickly - NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF REASON. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Ratte Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 The Model-E emulates a miniMoog, and it's swell. The LM-4's ass is being kicked up and down the street by Native Instrument's Battery since it was released a couple weeks ago. PPG Wave is cool, but the sounds tend to pop a bit I've noticed. Pro-52 rocks. The craziest thing right now though is Reaktor... you get that, you'll be a very busy person. G. Ratte' http://www.cultdeadcow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 Originally posted by gratte: The Model-E emulates a miniMoog, and it's swell. The LM-4's ass is being kicked up and down the street by Native Instrument's Battery since it was released a couple weeks ago. PPG Wave is cool, but the sounds tend to pop a bit I've noticed. Pro-52 rocks. The craziest thing right now though is Reaktor... you get that, you'll be a very busy person. I thought the Model-E layout looked a little familiar! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif I never owned one, though, nor have I ever even played one, so... Anyway, it sounds like a must have. Does Battery have the same function as the LM-4? And, does anyone like the VST Session Drummer stuff? I know it's a different principle, but I'm wondering. I am wondering what that pop is all about with the PPG Wave. Are others reporting the same thing? My only exposure was the online MP3 (not nearly as good a trial as say, a downloadable demo program), but I really dug the sound. It was its own thing. One more thing... is Reaktor one of those environments, or can it be like VST instruments? Ahh... wait... is it that software that sort of reminded me of a software version of a Nord Modular, a single synth that can take on many characteristics like a large modular synth? If so, and it is user-friendly enough (with supplied templates, etc.), that sounds hairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 I'm a BIG fan of VST instruments, I have yet to meet one I don't like!! Battery is very versatile, I'm going to be doing an online seminar about it here on the site very soon. I also just got Attack and look forward to checking it out. Anything with a Waldorf pedigree has got to be good. I know that CPU usage is an issue, but it's really quite easy to simply record the output as audio into an audio track, thus freeing up resources. I always leave the original MIDI data track in the sequencer, though, just in case I need to make a change later on. The other great thing about VST instruments is the automation. To be able to run a sequence, tweak knobs, and have those movements recorded definitely warms the heart of any "raised on analog" person. In case you missed it, there's a short tutorial on the site about setting up VST instruemnts. Check out the video in particular. The URL is: http://www.musicplayer.com/CDA/Player/Main/1,2228,Lessons-Keyboardist-5141732,00.html Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman1ovation.net Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 Originally posted by Anderton: I know that CPU usage is an issue, but it's really quite easy to simply record the output as audio into an audio track, thus freeing up resources. I always leave the original MIDI data track in the sequencer, though, just in case I need to make a change later on. Thanks, Craig. Something finally clicked with me there. All I've done so far is try the demos, but when I've been thinking of the hardware needed, I haven't really gotten the whole "output as audio into an audio track, thus freeing up resources" thing, which I assume is sort of like rendering the track. Once that has happened, that synth can go to sleep altogether, right? And then, if you should want to change something, it all exists there in your muted MIDI track, ready to change the MIDI performance or synth settings or patch or anything else. That's cool. Actually, that goes very much along with how I treat MIDI anyway. Shoot, I don't even like virtual MIDI tracks. I have MIDI timing issues. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif So, I tend to like to "play" a track sometimes by itself onto a recorded audio track so as not to have other stuff in the MIDI data stream mucking it up. I mean sometimes I only use the MIDI for controller settings, patch number and that sort of thing, and I'll just let MIDI play pitch bends or other controllers while I manually play the part onto the audio recording. I don't do that much, but if I can feel the MIDI messing with the timing (it is usually with stuff like piano parts), that's what I prefer. So, while I might like my rig to be able to play several VSTs live while I'm working on things to hear how they sound together, etc., when it comes to committing to audio, I'll be a one at a time person. That takes a great deal of pressure off the hardware. I appreciate you bringing up the point because up to then it had evaded me. I've been rendered a fool!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Hehehe.... All I know is when I hear the B4 and Pro-52 demos coming out of my desktop and consider their price, I can't keep saying, "Well, I'll be!" Truly amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.