Guest Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Okay folks, there are lots of great idea people on here, so here's a little dilemma I'm having: I make my living as a software developer and I work at home. I have my home office in a spare bedroom, equipped with a pretty hotdog computer. This machine would be perfectly capable of doing hard disk recording - problem is, my studio is in the basement, and frankly, I consider the studio like my haven from computers. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I do not want to get another computer just for the studio, nor do I want to bring this one down there. All the same, it would be nice to do HD recording or editing occasionally. I did put a drop ceiling in the studio, so fortunately it is not all that difficult for me to run cables down there from up here, and it occurs to me that I could put a small monitor, keyboard and mouse down there and run long cables to the computer. That would both solve my problem and eliminate computer fan noise in the studio. Has anyone done this? And what cables might I need going to my sound card in order to not compromise sound quality over the distance? I haven't measured the exact distance it would need to go, but I imagine we could be talking as much as 50 feet of cable. Any ideas/feedback would be appreciated. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 I will be blunt. What you are thinking about doing amounts to pissing against the wind. "...I consider the studio like my haven from computers..." But then. "...I could put a small monitor, keyboard and mouse down there and run long cables to the computer..." If the studio is to remain a haven from computers then just GO ANALOG. But if you are going to bring a small monitor, keyboard and mouse, then why not the CPU too? Why make your life more complicated by running all those cables, which might be a problem because I don't know if 50ft cables will work for the monitor, keyboard and mouse, and besides, for audio you'd want a BIG monitor. How are you going to monitor the audio playback if you are in your home office? Do you bring monitor speakers from the studio up into the office? Boy getting complicated now. Bite the bullet, and get an audio only computer system for the studio and leave the home office out of the equation, or just GO ANALOG. Miroslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Miroslav, I don't want to bring the CPU down to the studio too because I need it to stay in my office. I already have an all-analog situation in my studio, just trying to figure out if it would be worth it to try and rig something up to do occasional HD recording. I can use my large monitor up here in the office to do editing. What I would be doing downstairs would be occasional direct to disk recording and/or transferring analog material to disk for editing, CD burning etc. As for monitoring - I have a pair of active nearfield monitors in the studio already. I would have to figure a way to switch their source to either the computer or the analog mixer, but I think that could work. I wonder too about the 50 foot cables, but I do recall having a programmer friend who had multiple CPU's at home and he kept them all in a spare bedroom with an air conditioner, then ran very long cables out to his living room where he had the monitor, keyboard and mouse. So he could work in a nice environment without fan noise, and the CPU's could stay cool. I'll have to check with him and see if he did anything special with the cables. You may well be right - I may not end up doing this at all; I'm just mulling over what it would take to do it, IF I were to do it. It really is pretty painless to run cables here - when I designed the studio that was a consideration. So, keeping in mind that it's a bit of a nutty idea in the first place and I'm aware of that, if anybody has any ideas how to make it work IF I did this, I'd appreciate it. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Gee Wiz! Cut this guy some slack. I worked like this for several months until I could afford to put my big box in the studio and get a nice laptop for my office. One option, depending on what you are trying to do is just move the sound over using a DAT manually sneaker net style. This should work fine for 2-track edits and mastering. Getting remote cables is certainly an option and many people do this anyway to get the noise out of their studios check Rogers board for ideas do a search. Or ask David. I saw some SPDIF to AES converters from Midiman that will let you do longer digital runs between your studio and sound card. If you are running balanced analog, 50 feet should be OK. It would be better to do the conversion in your studio though. In fact, you should not use your sound cards analog input unless you have purchased a really good card with good converters and analog front end (balanced). Also, for monitoring, run the digital out of the sound card back down, DA in the studio and monitor it like that. This also gives you a good path for transfering audio back from the computer to your studio. Furmann makes a nice source monitoring switch (SRM-80 I think) if your console doesn't have this or just use some xtra channels or aux returns for monitoring if you need to. Get a flat panel monitor I use one of those and it looks great and doesnt take up much room or create heat. If you do put a keyboard and monitor down there though, dont kid yourself you have a computer in your studio for all practical purposes. If you have a Finalzer, a reverb, or any other piece of digital gear down there, you have computers anyway, so....really, it is not a bad thing. I think you are going the right track though to start out this way if you like it and want more capabilities, you can always add a dedicated machine when it makes sense to you. Good luck. [This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 09-26-2000).] Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Hey, I wasn't trying to discourage you, just to point out that if you bring your computer peripherals down to your studio, then why not the CPU? If you really don't want to have any computer in your studio haven, then just stay analog! Otherwise, your are kidding yourself, which is...pissing against the wind. I've done it too, so I can say I know what I'm talking about. I guess it comes down to how much time you are going to spend in your studio. That will be your best guide on how to set it up. I think a comfortably usable studio is better than a rigged workable studio. Sometimes we have no choice, but I think you do. What kind of software developing do you do in your home office? I think if you are just writing code, couldn't you do that on a smaller, inexpensive system and use your "pretty hotdog computer" for the audio? Best of luck, Miroslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Thanks for the good ideas Steve. >>I worked like this for several months until I could afford to put my big box in the studio and get a nice laptop for my office.<< Well yes, that's another thing I should have mentioned: this is a sort of temporary solution because I am waiting for the release of the Yamaha AW4416 standalone DAW. At that point most of this will be moot, but I will still probably want an external monitor and mouse on it anyway, so might as well get them now. >>One option, depending on what you are trying to do is just move the sound over using a DAT manually sneaker net style. This should work fine for 2-track edits and mastering.<< Good idea, except I don't have a DAT. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif And won't need one once I get the Yamaha. I am actually trying to talk a friend into loaning me his for a couple of days and I can transfer all my analog stuff over to the DAT and then up here. >>Getting remote cables is certainly an option and many people do this anyway to get the noise out of their studios check Rogers board for ideas do a search. Or ask David.<< OK, I will! Also, I found an RF wireless keyboard/trackpad that supposedly has a 100 foot range even through walls. I could even carry that back and forth between office and studio (and thus also prevent anyone else in the house from jumping on the computer while I'm in the studio. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I wonder though if it would be too noisy for the studio. Anybody know? >>I saw some SPDIF to AES converters from Midiman that will let you do longer digital runs between your studio and sound card. If you are running balanced analog, 50 feet should be OK. It would be better to do the conversion in your studio though. In fact, you should not use your sound cards analog input unless you have purchased a really good card with good converters and analog front end (balanced).<< OK, what other (inexpensive) options do I have if not my sound card's analog input? Pardon my ignorance here - I know plenty about computers and plenty about analog audio but am quite new to digital audio. >>Also, for monitoring, run the digital out of the sound card back down, DA in the studio and monitor it like that. This also gives you a good path for transfering audio back from the computer to your studio.<< Good idea... how would I do that? Outboard D/A converters? Aren't those expensive? >>Furmann makes a nice source monitoring switch (SRM-80 I think) if your console doesn't have this or just use some xtra channels or aux returns for monitoring if you need to.<< Yeah I think this will be the least of my troubles. >>Get a flat panel monitor I use one of those and it looks great and doesnt take up much room or create heat.<< I'd LOVE a flat panel monitor, but it's out of my price range at the moment. >>If you do put a keyboard and monitor down there though, dont kid yourself you have a computer in your studio for all practical purposes. If you have a Finalzer, a reverb, or any other piece of digital gear down there, you have computers anyway, so....really, it is not a bad thing.<< Oh, I probably should clarify... when I said the studio is my "haven from computers" I really meant my haven from work (programming). I don't want the studio to end up being my office because I've moved all the computer equipment down there. When I'm done with work I want to shut the office door and go to the studio and vice versa. Does that make things a little clearer? >>I think you are going the right track though to start out this way if you like it and want more capabilities, you can always add a dedicated machine when it makes sense to you.<< Yes, well I AM adding a dedicated machine in a sense, namely the Yamaha. Oh yeah and Miroslav, matter of fact I just had to upgrade my computer because the work I've been doing was seriously bogging down my "less expensive" machine. I do a lot of web enabled database type work. So I'm running SQL Server, a web server and Visual InterDev (for developing web pages) at the same time. This was s-l-o-w as molasses on my former Celeron 333Mhz machine. These days most of us programmers don't "just write code" - we are doing stuff involving heavy graphics, databases, etc. that eat up serious CPU time, memory, disk space... ARRRRGHHHH. Oh for the days when all my code would fit on a 360K floppy disk... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Thanks for all the ideas Steve! --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Thanks for the good ideas Steve. >>I worked like this for several months until I could afford to put my big box in the studio and get a nice laptop for my office.<< Well yes, that's another thing I should have mentioned: this is a sort of temporary solution because I am waiting for the release of the Yamaha AW4416 standalone DAW. At that point most of this will be moot, but I will still probably want an external monitor and mouse on it anyway, so might as well get them now. >>One option, depending on what you are trying to do is just move the sound over using a DAT manually sneaker net style. This should work fine for 2-track edits and mastering.<< Good idea, except I don't have a DAT. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif And won't need one once I get the Yamaha. I am actually trying to talk a friend into loaning me his for a couple of days and I can transfer all my analog stuff over to the DAT and then up here. >>Getting remote cables is certainly an option and many people do this anyway to get the noise out of their studios check Rogers board for ideas do a search. Or ask David.<< OK, I will! Also, I found an RF wireless keyboard/trackpad that supposedly has a 100 foot range even through walls. I could even carry that back and forth between office and studio (and thus also prevent anyone else in the house from jumping on the computer while I'm in the studio. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I wonder though if it would be too noisy for the studio. Anybody know? >>I saw some SPDIF to AES converters from Midiman that will let you do longer digital runs between your studio and sound card. If you are running balanced analog, 50 feet should be OK. It would be better to do the conversion in your studio though. In fact, you should not use your sound cards analog input unless you have purchased a really good card with good converters and analog front end (balanced).<< OK, what other (inexpensive) options do I have if not my sound card's analog input? Pardon my ignorance here - I know plenty about computers and plenty about analog audio but am quite new to digital audio. >>Also, for monitoring, run the digital out of the sound card back down, DA in the studio and monitor it like that. This also gives you a good path for transfering audio back from the computer to your studio.<< Good idea... how would I do that? Outboard D/A converters? Aren't those expensive? >>Furmann makes a nice source monitoring switch (SRM-80 I think) if your console doesn't have this or just use some xtra channels or aux returns for monitoring if you need to.<< Yeah I think this will be the least of my troubles. >>Get a flat panel monitor I use one of those and it looks great and doesnt take up much room or create heat.<< I'd LOVE a flat panel monitor, but it's out of my price range at the moment. >>If you do put a keyboard and monitor down there though, dont kid yourself you have a computer in your studio for all practical purposes. If you have a Finalzer, a reverb, or any other piece of digital gear down there, you have computers anyway, so....really, it is not a bad thing.<< Oh, I probably should clarify... when I said the studio is my "haven from computers" I really meant my haven from work (programming). I don't want the studio to end up being my office because I've moved all the computer equipment down there. When I'm done with work I want to shut the office door and go to the studio and vice versa. Does that make things a little clearer? >>I think you are going the right track though to start out this way if you like it and want more capabilities, you can always add a dedicated machine when it makes sense to you.<< Yes, well I AM adding a dedicated machine in a sense, namely the Yamaha. Oh yeah and Miroslav, matter of fact I just had to upgrade my computer because the work I've been doing was seriously bogging down my "less expensive" machine. I do a lot of web enabled database type work. So I'm running SQL Server, a web server and Visual InterDev (for developing web pages) at the same time. This was s-l-o-w as molasses on my former Celeron 333Mhz machine. These days most of us programmers don't "just write code" - we are doing stuff involving heavy graphics, databases, etc. that eat up serious CPU time, memory, disk space... ARRRRGHHHH. Oh for the days when all my code would fit on a 360K floppy disk... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Thanks for all the ideas Steve! --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 A man after my own heart - SQL Server, Interdev - good stuff! And in Atlanta as well, no less. Not sure how far you can run the video without a distribution amp (like they use at trade shows keynotes to feed those giant screens). Yes, outboard converters might be a little pricey, but otherwise you stand to risk hosing your audio pretty good using the internal converters that come on a typical computer sound card and those cheesy RCA analog inputs. Maybe a good stop gap would be to look at some of the better cards with A/D and D/A on them like a Lynx or something and run balanced cable to from your office. Or, it might be possible to use the Yamahas converters - I bet this would work. It has SPDIF (digital RCA coax connector) in and out. All you need then is a good digital card in your PC. Maybe David or Roger or someone can tell you how far you can go with SPDIF but I dont think too far. If not 50 feet, then you need to convert to AES. Also, run some of these Qs by David - he is the resident studio design guy on the boards and could probably help a bit. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 >>A man after my own heart - SQL Server, Interdev - good stuff! And in Atlanta as well, no less.<< Hey, how about that! I am, however, a woman... not obvious from my name, I know! >>Not sure how far you can run the video without a distribution amp (like they use at trade shows keynotes to feed those giant screens).<< Well, I spoke to my friend who's done this, and he says most of the newer monitors will handle it fine although he used to have to amplify the signal in the past. I ordered a switch so multiple monitors/keyboards/mice can share the machine... so we'll see what happens. >>Yes, outboard converters might be a little pricey, but otherwise you stand to risk hosing your audio pretty good using the internal converters that come on a typical computer sound card and those cheesy RCA analog inputs.<< Yeah I agree, having tried it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif >>Maybe a good stop gap would be to look at some of the better cards with A/D and D/A on them like a Lynx or something and run balanced cable to from your office.<< Might be a good idea. I would not object to having a badass sound card for listening to music while working, anyway. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif >>Or, it might be possible to use the Yamahas converters - I bet this would work. It has SPDIF (digital RCA coax connector) in and out. All you need then is a good digital card in your PC. Maybe David or Roger or someone can tell you how far you can go with SPDIF but I dont think too far. If not 50 feet, then you need to convert to AES.<< Well, once I get the Yamaha the point will be moot, because I can easily carry the entire unit up here and do digital transfers if I want. I expect not to have to do that very often though - the editing capabilities on the Yamaha seem like they will do fine for most of my purposes. That's why I don't want to invest a whole lot of money on this temporary solution. >>Also, run some of these Qs by David - he is the resident studio design guy on the boards and could probably help a bit.<< Sounds great, thanks. I think between all these options SOMETHING can be worked out! --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Lee, I do Web design & development myself... Photoshop, Flash, VR, XML, ASP, ColdFusion...so I know where you are coming form. I would still avoid mixing up my audio software/hardware with a graphics and software development system. Not saying it can't work, but from reading some of the ideas and suggestions in the previous posts, it appears it is getting even more complicated from what you initally proposed in your post. There are a lots of ways to "make it work", running cables, external converters, flat panel monitors...but what happened to your "haven"? If all you want to do on your office computer is EDIT audio, then just bring your source to the computer, transfer and edit away. But if you are going to TRACK audio on your office computer, then what room are you playing in, the office or studio? Do you run up and down between floors to make changes on your outboard gear, or do you start bringing that up to the office too? If all this IS a "temporary" solution, how temporary is it? A week, month or two...why bother? Just wait until you get your Yamaha, and then, you will still have a "computer" in your studio with a monitor and keyboard. So I guess I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to do and to what point, which is what triggered my inital comments. I have gone from a complex, "be ready for anything" project studio, only to go totally in the other direction...keep it simple. On many sessions, too much time was spent on technical considerations, and the creative juices would dry up by the time all the equipment was set. Know I try not to do something because it CAN be done but rather focus on the music first. Again, it seems to me that if you spend money to temporarily implement some of the ideas in the previous posts, you will have spent more then the cost of a second computer! Just bring down your office computer temporarily until you get your Yamaha, and then take the office completely out of the equation! Miroslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Miroslav, I think we are a lot more on the same page than you think we are. Like I said, I did not have my mind made up whether I was going to try this configuration or not, and my decision would be based on the level of complication and the cost. I am with you regarding "keeping it simple" and focusing on the music - you can't get much more simple than my studio is at the moment, and for the most part, I like it that way. Most of my money has been spent on my instruments, and on building the room itself so that it sounds good, which eliminates the need for a lot of expensive outboard gear! However, I'm just trying to get a feel for some of the other possibilities. I am waiting for the Yamaha to be released, but I've known about it since March, it was originally supposed to be released in June, and now it will be at least November (and who knows, then they may push it back again as they have already done 3 times). So, in the meantime, I would still like to digitally edit and master some of my analog stuff. I doubt very much that I will be doing much tracking to the HD; one thing I did consider was bouncing to the HD from my analog machine if I ran out of tracks, and either doing the rest of the tracks direct to disk, or bouncing back to 2 tracks of tape and continuing to record analog. This is not a situation that would happen very often. So, mostly what I would be doing is editing and mastering. I can't very well move an analog tape machine and a mixer up here every time I want to do that! And, if I move my computer downstairs that would introduce a whole other range of problems (eliminating computer noise in the studio, having to do my programming work in the studio which is not really a suitable place for that, etc.) Running cables, on the other hand, is fairly easy for me because of the way I built the studio, and I can scrounge most of the necessary cables and switches cheap or free from clients. So, what may be a real pain for one person may be less of a pain for another, and vice versa. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif HOWEVER... I think I have just solved the problem because a friend of mine told me last night that he would loan me his DAT recorder indefinitely. So I can mix down to DAT, carry the DAT recorder up here and transfer everything to the computer for editing. Yippee! The easiest solution of all and free, even. So we'll see how that works out. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Lee, Now that's what I call a simple solution!!! Glad that it worked out for you that way. The DAT solution was what I had in mind when I said: "If all you want to do on your office computer is EDIT audio, then just bring your source to the computer, transfer and edit away." Hey, when you get that Yamaha, post an update and let us know if the Yamaha does the trick. I've bought brand new gear right off the assembly line too and sometimes I've been happy with it but other times have had to deal with bug fixes and upgrades. Yamaha usually puts out good equipment though. Again, best of luck! Miroslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Lee, If you still plan on ever running very long cables for a computer to your monitor/keyboard/mouse, there is a new solution that allows up to 300ft cable runs. It is made by: http://www.gefen.net/ There is also a Gefen product description in the October 2000 issue of MIX magazine, towards the back, in the NEW products directory. Miroslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Hey thanks a lot Miroslav! Although it doesn't look like I'll be doing this cable run for now, I may still want to do it at some point and this looks like a good solution. Meanwhile, I've got my friend's borrowed DAT, and I have a Digital Audio Labs CardDeluxe in the mail supposedly, so we'll see what happens in my first attempt to bring my analog recordings into the digital world. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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