Jim Tavegia Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 system: HP 533 with 190 megs of RAM, 10 gig HD/ windows 98 2nd ed. motherboard mounted Crystal sound card. Adaptec 4.02 with a Ricoh MP 7040 CDR burner. Syntrillium CE 2K with 4 tk mixer/ Delta 66 PCI card. Monitor meters on the Cool Edit 2K screen flicker around -60 db before the Delta 66 was installed. With the Delta 66 PCI installed it remained about the same with balanced cables installed in the breakout box. With the cables removed the noise floor dropped only to below -70 db, but then these spikes appeared alternating between the channels, jumping up to -4- and -30 db and would not stop until I plugged back into the breakout box. Where is this noise floor coming from...the power supply into the stock computer sound card? Should I have the stock sound card disabled and install a $50 SoundBlaster card into the lower slot above my Delta 66, which is in the bottom slot? Are there some in-line filters that can be installed in the output cables of the power supply? Finally, when I get ready to burn CD-r's from my 24/96 files, where will the SRC take place to burn RedBook CD's? It it in the Adaptec software? As always, Thanks. Jim Tavegia ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Originally posted by Jim Tavegia: Should I have the stock sound card disabled and install a $50 SoundBlaster card into the lower slot above my Delta 66, which is in the bottom slot? I'm taking a guess here, but I would suggest immediately disabling the onboard sound card. In fact, I wonder whether your motherboard is up to the task of serious digital audio if it has embedded sound...I suspect that somehow, the sound card out is "hardwired" into the system somehow. (Also, why do you want to use a SoundBlaster anyway? The Delta should provide enough I/O, and if you want a synth, you can always get something like a Yamaha tone module and plug it into the MIDI out.) If that doesn't work, try moving the card to another slot. Let us know what happens when you disable the internal sound capabilities. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Hi Jim, Try this: Make sure that no cables are plugged into the inputs and outputs of the Delta 66 patchbay. This is crucial to the test. Next, go to your Options menu->Settings, and click on the 'Devices' tab. Choose Delta 1+2 input as your record source. Create a new 32-bit file from the File menu that is stereo with a sample rate of 48000 Hz. Record 10 seconds of silence. Once the audio has been recorded, go to the 'Analyze' menu and choose 'Statistics'. Look at the value 'Averarge RMS Power'. If healthy, this should read around -93dB or higher. Repeat with input pairs 3+4. If your noise values are still low, then move the PCI card to a different slot. Also, I'd try moving the breakout box around to a different location to see if that helps. Good Luck, Dylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tavegia Posted July 12, 2000 Author Share Posted July 12, 2000 Thanks Dylan, As per your instructions the readings I took were: AVG RMS: -94.77 & -93.55 Peak Amplitude was: -61 & -60 If these reflect low noise readings then the spikes that appear on the Cool Edit monitor display may not be an accurate reflection? When I played back the noise on the analyzer none of the peaks were higher than -90 . I p9icked up an extender cable for the breakout box and the CE meters are now flickering at -72 to -60. ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tavegia Posted July 15, 2000 Author Share Posted July 15, 2000 I rearranged my Cards in the slots inside the HP. I moved the Modem down to the bottom slot and moved the Delta 66 card up two slots, leaving about the same amount of room between the Modem and the top mounted power supply I redressed some cables as much as I could. With no cables installed in the breakout box except the output playback cables, I am reading an -84 db noise floor on the Cool Edit Monitor display. When I plugged in the TRS (BAL) input cables from the Mackie1202 the noise floor jumped to -60db in both channels. When I unplugged them from the Mackie and twisted them like a candy cane spikes began appearing in both channels. I had two other bal cables with A3F's on one end and TRS on the other for the breakout box. With these installed in the Mackie and the Delta 66 the noise floor jumped to -64db. When I disconnected them from the Mackie and twisted them no change in the noise floor occured and no spikes. Even with the Mackie's gain all the way down the noise level is still -64db. Now I removed all input cables from the Mackie and the noise floor was up to -58db. Removing the cables dropped it to -84db. Even when I turned the Mackie OFF with the BAl out cables installed it still read a noise floor of -58db. Any comments are appreciated. ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tavegia Posted August 31, 2000 Author Share Posted August 31, 2000 Just a note on this problem...after weeks of going back and forth with this noise issue I and MidiMan gave up. They even sent me a new unit which still had the same problems. There is some hardware issue, but no one knows what it is. I thought about the Lexicon core card, but was told by the same dealer that they get about 1/2 of those back due to hardware conflicts as well. This was not very encouraging. Is the secredt to this computer recording issue to not use your computer for any thing else (no modem and internet service) and totally remove the stock sound card from the computer? ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Hi Jim, Bummer about your Delta experience. Most newer 24-bit pro soundcards are very quiet, including ones like the Delta that have the converters on the PCI card. Did you ever try moving the card to a different PCI slot in your computer? I'm able to run several soundcards in my PC along side my modem, SCSI card, and 3 hard drives without any noise getting picked up internally. If your PC is highly susceptible to noise, then you might want to look into an ADAT lightpipe card that would hook up to external converters. This will cost a bit more than a cheaper 24-bit card, but it's a very flexible setup that is easily upgradeable. Otherwise, I'd check out a comparable card to the Delta that is in the same price range and give it a shot. Good luck, Dylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Have you considered that it might be the motherboard? The motherboard can make a big difference with respect to audio performance. Check out the slide show on this site about choosing a motherboard, as that may have some useful tips. Also, I avoid embedded audio functions like the plague! You're better off getting a mobo without sound functions, and adding a Sound Blaster or whatever. You might want to call the East Coast Music Mall in Connecticut and see what motherboards they use on their Virtuoso PCs (which are integrated specifically for music). I believe they are using the ATX BX Master, but it wouldn't hurt to check. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tavegia Posted September 1, 2000 Author Share Posted September 1, 2000 Originally posted by Dylan Walters: Hi Jim, Bummer about your Delta experience. Most newer 24-bit pro soundcards are very quiet, including ones like the Delta that have the converters on the PCI card. Did you ever try moving the card to a different PCI slot in your computer? I'm able to run several soundcards in my PC along side my modem, SCSI card, and 3 hard drives without any noise getting picked up internally. If your PC is highly susceptible to noise, then you might want to look into an ADAT lightpipe card that would hook up to external converters. This will cost a bit more than a cheaper 24-bit card, but it's a very flexible setup that is easily upgradeable. Otherwise, I'd check out a comparable card to the Delta that is in the same price range and give it a shot. Good luck, Dylan Hi Dylan, We did try moving the card to the top slot and move the modem card to the bottom. This gave one space of seperation. The problem was that as soon as I plugged anything into the Delta breakout box, even with openended patch cords the noise level shot up to -46db I now use a Behringer mx602A to run analog audio into the stock sound card. I am only using the little mixer to keep level up and insure proper channel balance. It workd pretty good for $89. I have a noise level of around -80 with no conflicts There was some conflict with the stock sound card/motherboard and the Delta 66. With the stock sound card part of the mother board on this HP 6635 I think I may be stuck, unless I replace the motherboard. My biggest concern is with the quality of the Crystal Semi AD/DA's. it doesn't sound bad, but I know that it is not the best that I could be doing. For $69 I may try loading a sound Blaster PCI512 and see what happens. At least I would have digital in which I miss now. ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tavegia Posted September 1, 2000 Author Share Posted September 1, 2000 I went into my device manager to see if it showed any conflicts and it said I had no hardware conflicts. IRG 3 Crystal Audio Codec IRC 3 Intel r 82891AA SmBus Controller IRQ 3 Intel 82819 Graphics controller IRQ 3 ACPI IRQ holder for PCI steering IRQ 3 " IRQ 11 Intel USB controller 11 Conexant PCI modem Enumerator 11 ACPI IRQ Holfder for PCI steering 11 " IRQ 14 Primary IDE controller 14 Intel 82891 Bus master IDE controller 15 secondary IDE controller dual info 15 Intel 82891A Bus master IDE controller DMA 1 Crystal Audio Codec game device 2 Std folppy controller 4 Direct memory access controller 0 free 5 free 6 free 7 free If you see anything here let me know. thanks ------------------ Jim T. Jim T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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