mac mac mac mac

[audiorebelyahoo.com]

mac is the way to go. PC is just too unstable of a platform. i leanred the hard way myself. nothing like a crash just after a great take to show you the way. Anyhow, i have recording on a mac with pro tools and with a line 6. Gotta love this digital age. Not to mention that the load out is incrediblely nil. We literally take the puter everywhere to record everything and with th eline 6 and pedals we get any sound we need anywhere. Too cool.

If only we could get some reasonably quality digital drums, bands could tour in a volkswagon, LOL.

anyhow, I work at a cool place that deals in digital, and I also have access to anything new coming down the pipe.

If I could give you any info you need, e-mail me, I'll be glad to do what I can.

visit my site if you want to, thanks. http://www.geocities.com/mistermyx

[Anderton]

So what's the deal with OS9 and OMS? I've been told that they're unwilling partners at best. With Gibson no longer supporting OMS, what do you do for MIDI with OS9? One guy mentioned that if you installed OS9, then installed OMS, then did a re-install of OS9, you could get OMS to work. But that seems pretty weird.

 

I use both Mac and Windows, by the way, and although people hate to hear this, my Windows setup is currently more stable than my Mac! I say "currently" because one of the problems with all computers these days seems to be that they're built like a house of cards - add one wrong extension or DLL, and they come crashing down. I do think that Macs have the potential to be more robust, but if you don't move a lot of programs on and off a Windows machine, they work pretty well. The Mac can handle adding/removing lots of programs better than Windows, IMHO.

[Kris]

I agree with you here... I also use both... the mac is always pretty stable and easy to work with...

 

The pc started out great about a year ago, but with new upgrades and software, etc. it is now doing strange things more and more often...

 

I think it all comes down to really knowing how to keep you system clean and compatible... Macs just seem to make it easier to maintain.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Kris (edited 05-26-2000).]

[audiorebelyahoo.com]

Hell yeah mac is better at installing, but especially uninstalling.

windows lets a prog come in and borrow shared system dll's and when you uninstall, it tkaes the dll's with it.

so really, only beginners have this prob, cause us elders know to back up system before we start add ing and subtracting.

mac however automatically send a copy to the prog, and when you delete, it only gets rid of the copy. Great feedback.

oh, and our system has OS 8.5, installed pro tools from sweetwater, absolutely no probs so far. hadn't heard about the OS 9 stuff, will look into.

[Dylan]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I've used $20K+ Mac rigs, and home-built sub-$1000 PC's for years now, and I still prefer the PC for my use. Yes, there is more potential for conflicts on a PC, but only because there are so many different types on the market. If you design and use a PC with music and not for games and such, then you should have no problems.

 

If PC's were as unstable as all of the Mac evangelist would like you to believe, then no one would be shelling out the cash for them. BTW, I used to be one of those Mac evangelist, but I have 'seen the light'.

 

Nowadays, most of the professional audio/MIDI hardware works on both platforms, so the real deciding factor should be what apps and utilities you plan on using. If the Mac floats yer boat then fine then more power to you, but don't go around trashing PC's just because you might not know how to properly use one. There are many professionals like Craig here who use PC's every day, so it can be done.

 

Best regards,

 

Dylan

[audiorebelyahoo.com]

well, i agree with you to a large extent, and have had some excellent results on Pc, but i am still happier with the mac. I didn't mean to bash the PC at all, I have one at home as my main tool, and of course the Pc has much more available progs which is a mixed blessing, and Mac seems to not have much at all for the casual user and only a few progs for the serious user. But...I stand by my statement of less system probs for the simple reason is that is what I have experienced and several of my partners as well. We all are entitled to opinions, and you are correct sir, that I sould not bash the PC, because like I said, before it was not my intent in the least. Thanx for an insightful response though. Ragards back atcha AudioRebel.

hmmm, when my website is done i'll send a link of my recordings, the difference is evident, but my friend, i would sooner go back to a 486 Pc rather than analog, no matter what the probs I have with my puterz. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Was recording on a MCI 2 inch, wanna talk trouble?!?! ugh.

[Guest]

Well, I've used the popular audio applications on both platforms and have found that an ideally maintained NT platform is a little more stable than an ideally maintained Mac platform.

 

In many ways it has to be since NT has better memory protection than MacOS (please keep in mind that I HATE all windows products and it loathes me to say this).

 

MacOS X however should blow everything out of the water with stability (except for other true Unices and linux) since Apple borrowed the BSD unix kernel to build the OS out of.

 

Now it might be time to buy a Mac, but I won't.

 

Rich...

[Dylan]

We all know that Micrsoft is the devil ;-). But....I've been using Windows 2000 for months now, and I must say that it's by far the most solid OS that I've used to date. Although navigating in Explorer doesn't seem as 'zippy' as Win NT 4.0 or 98, it's rock solid! I can't recall every crashing this OS.

 

Mac OS X might be the bomb, but guess what? Apple has been promising a solid OS for years now with features like protected memory, but has yet to deliver. This is why I sold my Power Mac years ago and haven't gone back. And once it is released and if it rocks, what's the guarantee that all of your stuff is going to work on it? Did somebody say Opcode? Be OS was supposed to be the bomb for guys like us, but they have yet to get the support that was promised to them, so I've got a feeling that it will never be a predominant, let alone moderately used OS for music. Didn't Echo Audio promise Be drivers well over a year ago? Linux is also supposed to be solid as well, but if you can't get drivers and/or software then who cares?

 

Give hardware and software manufactures 6 months to catch up to Windows 2000 for drivers and such, and I can guarantee that all of you on PC's who make the switch will be smiling.

 

Best regards,

 

Dylan

[alphajerk]

i used to be a big windoze advocate when it was cool to use mac but they were expensive and my windoze machine smoked mac's consistantly for the graphics i was doing for a third of the price.

 

however, times have changed and mac smokes PC's and there isnt much of a price difference.

 

i still use pc for graphics due to compatibility with a game i work on (only available to pc's) but for audio i will never use one. i can only trust a mac.

 

macs are super simple machines while pc's stability dangle by threads. even though it seems stable now, one false move and you gotta redo the entire system.

 

and i have been using pc's when they had no HD's and apple machines before there were macs. in fact my dad had a GB harddrive so big, they had to cut a hole in the roof to get it in the building with a crane.

 

anyone seen this email floating about?

 

FAMOUS LAST WORDS

 

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."

- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of

science, 1949

 

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

 

"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and

talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data

processing is a fad that won't last out the year."

- Editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957

 

"Best estimate of rupture of breast implants is 5%."

- Dr. Marcia Angell, Author, Science on Trial

 

"But what... is it good for?"

- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of

IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.

 

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their

home."

- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital

Equipment Corp., 1977

 

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously

considered as a means of communication. The device is

inherently of no value to us."

- Western Union internal memo, 1876

[Anderton]

As to system problems... it's kind of a paradox.

 

Windows machines are like VW bugs. Things go wrong, but if you know something about bugs, you can fix just about anything with a screwdriver, a rubber band, and a paper clip.

 

A Mac is like a microprocessor-controlled car. It works, it's reliable, but if there's a problem, there's not much you can do.

 

I like the tweakability of PCs, because I do have a machine that's optimized for music (no games, no AOL 5.0!) and it is indeed stable thanks mostly to those tweaks. When my Mac goes nuts, I can only reboot, diddle with the extensions manager, and pray. Generally if something doesn't work on my Mac, it won't ever work on my Mac. With Windows, I at least have a chance to kluge some fix that will make things happen.

 

The thing that bothers me about both platforms is how much ill-defined junk is in those system folders! Windows people know all about DLL hell, and I must say half of the extensions in the Mac are complete mysteries to me (OpnDocTrnsprtLibObject - type stuff). The early Mac OS was a marvel of compactness. That got lost somewhere along the way, and I'd sure like to see it get simple again.

[Anderton]

...and both platforms are atrocious when it comes to MIDI timing. Thankfully companies like Emagic, MOTU, and Steinberg are coming out with interfaces that can compensate for computer slop. I might start using MIDI again .

[lwilliam]

I have a G4 in the studio and am typing this on my PII/333 in my home office. I like it that way.

 

I used PCs when you had a "turbo" button to kick it up to 8 or 10Mhz and Macs that had cute little 5" monochrome screens.

 

I think they have been leapfrogging each other in stability over the years, with NT surpassing the Mac OS at this point. OSX will equalize things again, but not until the drivers have a version number larger than 1.0 in them.

 

With OSX supposedly having built-in midi capabilities (written by the guy who helped write OMS), it may at that point be the superior platform for multi-media.

 

Unfortunately, OSX has been delayed (again) and isn't expected to ship until January.

 

...and maybe by then, Win2001 will have midi, also.

 

I personally think the person who knows the most about his/her system in use (whichever it is) will be the one to get it stable.

 

BTW, OMS seems to work fine now that OS9.0.4 is out - with some newer USB drivers.

 

------------------

Larry W.

 

[This message has been edited by lwilliam (edited 05-27-2000).]

[alphajerk]

put it this way. i spend more time working on my pc than my mac, doing admin that is. ive also had it in pieces more often. i still cant get some things working. i have had to clean install the OS 4 times, the mac has only been put on once. i never have problems on my mac. internet explorer screwed it up once, part of a conspiracy im sure. got rid of it and use netscape now.

 

but in all honesty, i use both and dont really care as long as i have something.

 

i will say windows has a much cleaner GUI. its much more efficient. but i hold my breath when i install something hoping all hell doesnt break loose. i dont think about that on my mac.

[Anderton]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

i will say windows has a much cleaner GUI. it's much more efficient. but i hold my breath when i install something hoping all hell doesnt break loose. i dont think about that on my mac.

 

I just discovered a $50 piece of software called GoBack. It takes snapshots of your PC so that when you install something, if all hell breaks loose you can restore your PC to exactly where it was before the problem occurred. I saw this at Office Max today and had to buy it; it will be great if after doing a review, I can restore my machine to exactly where it was at before doing the review! Has anyone used this software (I'll file a report once I've installed it)?

[JohnBartus]

Isn't it strange that, some 17 YEARS after the advent of MIDI, we have to wait for Mac OS X or Windows 2001 to -- MAYBE -- see MIDI implementation within an OS? As far back as 1985, the Atari 520ST had MIDI BUILT IN!! Why have musicians and audio pros (not to mention home recordists and keyboardists) been seemingly ignored by Apple and Microsoft? Are we that small a market?

 

The two Macs I use (one for business & graphics, one for audio) won't be upgraded past OS 8.6 until they both die or we get a stable audio-friendly OS.

 

BTW, our little town in the Keys (Marathon) rcently incorporated and I was elected to our first City Council. We're trying to become a digital city from the start, and the municipal management firm we hired has provided us Council members with (gasp!) PC laptops. Windows 2000 seems to be pretty stable so far, and I'm looking forward to learning all about the ins and outs of PC life.

 

And (another gasp!) Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 blows any Netscape product clean out of the water!

 

A (sometime) Mac snob,

John Bartus

 

------------------

John Bartus

Radio Active Productions

We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed.

1-888-93-RADIO

www.radioactivedigital.com

[Guest]

Just prior to the release of Win2000 MS admitted to something on the order of 40,000 bugs in the code. Some mission critical, and some cosmetic. If someone wants a source I'll find it.

 

Compounding that to the fact that NT is still full of bugs after 5 years, I have little hope that Win2000 will truly be stable in my lifetime.

 

What's my point?

 

Anyone that installs Win2000 at this juncture is truly brave!

 

I'll stick with linux when I need stability. Too bad there aren't any killer audio apps available under linux.

 

Rich...

 

[This message has been edited by Richard V. Wielgosz (edited 05-29-2000).]

[Guest]

Incidentally, the latest Netscape Betas are excellent. They're based on the Mozilla open source browser project, and are getting really close to a general release. Lotsa neat features including skins which allow you to make the browser look like anything you want. You can design your own interface. The code is small, tight, and fast. You gotta love it. It's also pretty much available for all platforms. Even stuff like VMS and the BeOS.

 

Rich...

[Anderton]

As to why Microsoft and Apple ignore us...

 

Apple would say the Beatles suit constrained them vis a vis music. Besides, Opcode's OMS was good, and gave them no incentive to take mIDI futher.

 

Sound cards have traditionally been part of the PC package, and they have MIDI...it's almost a de facto PC feature. The way Windows handles media is pretty good, too.

 

Interestingly, the Atari MIDI wasn't just built in, it was a DMA process that had priority. This is why the lowly 1040ST still smokes your top of the line G4s and Pentium IIIs when it comes to MIDI timing.

 

BTW Atari never planned to add MIDI, it's just that the yields on their "Amy" sound chip were so dismal they figured MIDI was a simple way out - "here, YOU choose the sound module."

 

Hey - is anyone out there using the Be system? There was a flurry of announcements for support, but I haven't seen any of this materialize yet.

[Anderton]

Hi everyone --

 

There was an earlier Mac vs. PC forum which is older than 45 days, so it's fallen off the screens for most of you (you can see topics older than 45 days, but that's the default). As I want to clean out older forums, I copied all the messages from that forum, and pasted them in here. Some comments are worthy of a follow-up if you're interested, particularly the ones about laptops for music. --craig

 

Randy Peterson

posted 03-01-2000 02:42 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac all the way. Sure it will be a while before everything is tweeked for the velocity engine. But how many programs do you need anyway? As long as Performer works that's good enough for me. Windows is big and stupid. The only reason it has gotten as far as it has with audio is becuase Apple was asleep at the wheel there for a few years.

 

 

jeremy

posted 03-02-2000 11:05 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mac vs. PC is kinda like the Strat vs. Les Paul debate...both are capable of getting you where you want to be, although they each have a distinct "feel". My personal dream system consists of a 500mhz powerbook running cubase and reaktor, with BIAS peak for some dirty work. You want to use a Wintel machine? Be my guest. My personal experience is that Windows is rather non user-friendly, and I feel i've given it a fair shake. Again, if you've worked on a particular platform for enough time you're likely to lean towards it, so stay the course. It will most likely give you a productive boost.

In terms of price/performance, i'd have to say that the G4 is tough to beat. the Velocity Engine redefines hi-performance. Audio into an iMac? Sure. But those little screens? I dunno...

 

 

Anderton

posted 03-03-2000 12:20 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Audio into an iMac? Sure. But those little screens? I dunno...>>

Is there a way to get digital audio in and out of the iMac? I was told that OS9 resolves some USB audio problems, but with Opcode out of the picture, I don't know of any audio to USB boxes for the Mac. Maybe MIDIMan? I know the TASCAM USB control box (as mentioned in the NAMM show report) will do the job once it's out sometime this summer...I'm waiting. Meanwhile, the screen comment is RIGHT ON! I use a 17" monitor and it really doesn't hack it. I was just scoring a film and over at a friend's studio who has an AVID. Two monitors are definitely the way to go. And let's face it, the Mac handles multiple monitors more elegantly than Windows.

 

 

jeremy

posted 03-03-2000 11:12 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the iMac audio mystery....don't the new Roland/Edirol USB interfaces work with Macs? I thought that the software had been updated to allow Mac compatibility. Maybe i'm wrong though....

I feel that if you're going to use a desktop system for music production, you should be looking at monitors in the 19" to 21" range. I'm all about powerbooks, and while that screen is small, the portability puts them over the top. And, like a desktop, you can add a second monitor (which, while pricey, can really enhance creativity). I was looking at the recently released imac DV special edition, and everything is great...except the monitor. And by the way, how about a special edition Mac for digital audio? Apple, are you listening???

 

 

Anderton

posted 03-08-2000 01:45 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>I feel that if you're going to use a desktop system for music production, you should be looking at monitors in the 19" to 21" range. I was looking at the recently released imac DV special edition, and everything is great...except the monitor. And by the way, how about a special edition Mac for digital audio? Apple, are you listening???>>

Monitors never get enough attention in the press or online, so thanks for bringing it up. I was just working with the new version of WaveLab (very nice, by the way!), but man -- you open up a few windows, add some plug-ins, and the clutter factor on my 17" screen gets unbearable. I'm waiting for flat panel LCDs to get cheap enough...

 

As to whether Apple is listening about digital audio, who knows? They do seem to be hiring more people into audio (did you know they hired Doug Wyatt, who was the main coder behind OMS? Draw your own conclusions!!). But I doubt whether they perceive the digital audio market to be big enough for a push like they did for desktop videos. Speaking of which--in the interest of fairness, Apple sort of comes on like they invented desktop video. But the videos for this site (they'll be posted soon -- server problems) were done with a $100 SIIG FireWire board hooked into a Windows machine, running editing software bundled with the card. If you have a DV-cam, there are a lot of solutions -- for both Windows and Mac -- that don't require spending a lot of bucks.

 

 

Anderton

posted 03-08-2000 01:50 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Regarding the iMac audio mystery....don't the new Roland/Edirol USB interfaces work with Macs? I thought that the software had been updated to allow Mac compatibility. Maybe i'm wrong though...>>

I believe Mac compatibility is planned, but whether it works right now or not I don't know. I do know that the TASCAM USB audio front end (designed by Frontier Design, by the way) is slated to have Mac compatibility this summer. I'm a big fan of Frontier Design's products, so I think this is a box that's definitely worth checking out.

 

 

Randy Peterson

posted 03-10-2000 02:55 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

iMac is not a good choice for digital audio. It's good for hobbiests but that's about it. If you actually want to do digital audio on a Mac you need something expandable where you can put in more memory, change cards, that kind of thing. iMacs are for people who are scared of computers, and if you're scared of computers, then you shouldn't be doing digital audio.

 

 

David Coffin

posted 03-16-2000 11:50 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by jeremy:...(snip) My personal dream system consists of a 500mhz powerbook running cubase and reaktor, with BIAS peak for some dirty work. ...[/b]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I personally prefer Macs by a wide margin, and am currently running Reaktor, Metasynth+MetaTrack, and Peak on a biege G3 (with two monitors)...BUT it sure is rare that a new Mac audio app comes around, while I'm constantly lusting after new (and old) PC-only stuff I read about, mostly (these days) from Sonic Foundry (a de-clipper that works!), and all those cheap plug-ins and shareware. MY dream studio will definitely have both platforms, but I know I'll always prefer the feel of a Mac.

btw...it's SO good to have you back online, Craig!

Bravo MillerFreeman

David

 

 

Anderton

posted 03-17-2000 04:30 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by David Coffin:

MY dream studio will definitely have both platforms, but I know I'll always prefer the feel of a Mac.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Having both is really doable these days. You can buy a top of the line PC AND Mac for less than what a Mac Plus cost in 1985! That's progress. But I gotta say, the PC is doing the lion's share of the work in my studio these days. Maybe that will change when I get a newer Mac, but here are my Top 10 reasons for loving the PC:

 

1. Sonic Foundry makes some of the coolest software in the world.

2. WaveLab 3.0. A totally awesome digital editor, way more mature than version 2.0.

3. Lots of great shareware.

4. I was able to get a complete digital video editing package for $100.

5. SCSI is less temperamental, at least with an Adaptec board.

6. Dirt cheap hardware prices.

7. Better digital audio support over USB.

8. Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.0. I know other programs look better, but 9.0 has been a paragon of stability for me.

9. Windows FINALLY has dual-monitor support, although the Mac still does it better.

10. No OMS! With Opcode not around to maintain it, we're totally at Apple's mercy in terms of getting MIDI stuff to work. Right now I can't use my favorite Mac sequencing program because of some OMS/OS issue that I don't have a clue how to unravel.

 

 

Anderton

posted 03-17-2000 04:32 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a Windows tip:

If you use an Adaptec SCSI board, DON'T load the Adaptec drivers included with the board. The ones included in Windows 98 are much better. Just pop in the card, and Windows will recognize it and install drivers. Don't be fooled by the message on boot-up that says "BIOS not loaded," that just refers to the Adaptec drivers not being loaded.

 

 

Randy Peterson

posted 04-08-2000 01:57 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laptop question: Mac or PC? I want to use a laptop to store backing tracks that I can mix onstage. So I assume I need a fader box or something. I want to be able to run digital audio. I'm mostly concerned with the sound card issue- how can I get outputs and all that from a computer? Built-in stereo is't enough. Will USB interfaces work with laptops? Also, how are they at handling stage lights and heat. If anyone in this forum actually uses a laptop live, tell me about experiences + recommendations, thanx.

 

 

Blair Godwin

posted 04-11-2000 12:01 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Randy Peterson:

Laptop question: Mac or PC? I want to use a laptop to store backing tracks that I can mix onstage. So I assume I need a fader box or something. I want to be able to run digital audio. I'm mostly concerned with the sound card issue- how can I get outputs and all that from a computer? Built-in stereo is't enough. Will USB interfaces work with laptops? Also, how are they at handling stage lights and heat. If anyone in this forum actually uses a laptop live, tell me about experiences + recommendations, thanx.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm pretty involved with comptuers, and I don't think laptops are there yet for live performance. There are some "ruggedized" laptops like the Panasonic Tough Book (or something like that), but they're expensive. You could use a laptop for doing arranging on the road but stage use is something else. You can get some pretty small desktops with a LCD monitor and that way if something breaks, you don't have to wait a month for some weird part to show up. I think live laptops are more a novelty than something really useful right now, but maybe someone can prove me wrong and actually uses laptops live.