dohhhhh6 Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Alright, I'm apart of a rock/pop/alt band (guitar, bass, drums, no singer yet) and am having some troubles with the drummer. My guitarist keeps whining about how bad our drummer is because he used to play drums himself. The guitarist even went so far as to say he's quitting the band if the drummer's playing keeps on going like this. Now I'm sure you'd all say, "screw the guitarist, there's plenty Van Halens waiting in their rooms to be picked up," only this guitarist is my best friend, and I want to keep this band going, since I have no real opportunities to play bass anywhere else. So right now, I'm begging you all to help me out. I will admit the drummer isn't too good, but it's the guitarist's superly biased criticism that is breaking up the band. Are there any techniques, gear, excersizes, or anything else that can get the drummer in better shape? All suggestions would be extremely appreciated. Thanks in advance. LadY In Skynyrd We Trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J J Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 have your guitar player teach your drummer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy E Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 I am a drummer, bassist and lead guitarist. My view of it is ...the back bone of any band is the link between the bass and drummer. This is a rhthym section. This is the balls and guts of the band. A great example is SRVs boys, Double Trouble!! If SRV quit playing ..they laid down a groove 5 miles wide. Have you worked individually with the drummer? you just play bass, and have the drummer work on meshing with you, creating a groove! That is any guitarists dream, having a strong, confident section backing him. There are very few bass players that are not frustrated guitar players. When I played the bass, I just loved the interaction of the 2 instruments, do you play the bass? I have met many guys who viewed bass as their chance to get in a band. They didnt stay on the ball though. Really concentrate on the groove, its not about scales and stuff but about almost leading the band. A good bassist can actually direct to the drummer and guitarist where the group is heading, as they are playing!! Spend some time with the drummer...getting that feel...laying down a solid line! You can do it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiRoller Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 What are your bands goals? Have you guys all got together and discussed it over a beer? If your drummer just wants to mess around for fun then I don't think there is much you can do. If you guys are all serious then I think a brutally honest conversation with the drummer is in order. Does your drummer practice rudiments with a metronome on his/her own? Musicians who don't practice at all on their own drives people who do nuts Anyways, honesty is the best policy. If it ends up not working out for your drummer or guitar player theres no reason why you can't still be friends. my band: Mission 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Oh man, bad drummers.... Without a perfect groove underneath it all, a band doesn't have a chance. I assume, since you didn't get specific, that the main problem is timing, not style. Most bad drummers simply play too much. Get your "drummer" (we'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now) to simplify. He needs to practice the fundmentals, and he ABSOLUTELY should practice to a metronome, or metronome headphones. I'm not a huge fan of recording with a metronome, but playing and practicing are two VERY different things. -Maybe that's the most important point to make: The difference between great artists and mediocre ones often lies in the way they practice their craft. The great artist works slowly and carefully on the things he/she CAN'T do. The mediocre artist just hones the things he/she already knows. Here's a good idea: At practice, take away all of Dumbo's crash cymbals and toms. Literally. Force him to play on a totally stripped-down trap kit. He will be FORCED to concentrate on fundamentals, and will probably discover all sorts of nuances that he would not otherwise have stumbled upon for another ten years. Later, when he's earned the right to play fills, check carefully (against the metronome) that his kick actually comes down on the beat after all big fills. It is remarkably common for drummers, even ones that hold a good basic groove, to be late on the downbeat after a big fill. Makes me NUTS. Also, if Dumbo sings back-up vox, for now don't let him. Divide and conquer. Have him read all of this. If he resists any of these ideas, then dump him immediately, as he will never be worth your time. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 One more IMPORTANT thing, irrespective of the above post: Make sure your bass playing is up to snuff. I assume from your post that you're the bassist. Play to a drum machine, over various grooves, in front of the band. Include the drummer in this, so he sees that he's not being singled-out and that everyone wants to be better. Have the band critique your playing. If YOUR groove is off, a bad drummer doesn't stand a chance. And last, regarding "...so he sees that he's not being singled-out and that everyone wants to be better." Take that to heart. Use this oportunity to also constructively criticise the guitarist, and anyone else in the band. We can all be better at what we do. Record rehearsals, and have the whole band critique each individual menber. This will make Dumbo mush less defensive. Last, don't actually call him "Dumbo," at least not to his face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Gervais Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I am a drummer - play in an excellent 5 piece (OK - maybe i am a bit biased... ) and want to tell you that communication - open communication - is the key. Your guitar player needs to stop being critical and get constructive. Your drummer needs to open up and be receptive - and you probably need to be the mediator. My guitarists will often ask my bass player and I (who happen to work real REAL well together - almost like we think with the same mind) - to try certain things that they feel would make an arrangement happen - and we gladly try them - because when it all boils down - it isn't about the individual musicians - it's all about the band...... the complete unit. Then again - if i ask them to try an augmented chord in a particular place - they don't get offended either........ So tell your drummer to practice - and tell your guitarist to let everyone know what he wants - as opposed to saying the drummer sucks. One other thing - start taping your practices - nothing fancy - but enough to capture everything clearly (we use 3 overheads in the room run to a Korg D1600) - this way you will be able to sit as a unit after each practice and critique everything you're doing - if the drummer can hear himself it will go a long ways towards helping him understand what he's doing wrong. And the guitarist and you may learn something in the process as well. If all this fails - find yourself a new drummer. Good Luck - Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offramp Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Laugh if you will at the example, but this is the kind of stuff that plagued Journey for so many years; Steve Perry was constantly telling Steve Smith either what he wanted Smith to play or how to play it, because Perry himself had been a drummer. And a really pretty good one at that, I hear...but when you're pulling that kind of crap on a drummer like Smith? we-he-he-hellll.... I've upped my standards; now, up yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bravo to Allen and Rod!!! Great advice. The drummer needs to do his job.........keep time. That's it. Friends or no friends, he is expected to keep things together all of the time. He needs to spend time dropping some CD's in a player and play along, use of a drum machine, or other device that will make him practice, he needs to do so. It is hard to keep a band together let alone to have the basics tear things apart. I hope your best friend, the guitarist, and the drummer arn't competing for the drum roll/lead parts all of the time in songs......that's not good either. If you folks are doing covers and have practiced your parts there should be no conflicts, so I'm also assuming that it is a timing thing with the drummer. He needs to get back to the basic drum components. I used to practice with a snare, tom, floor tom, hi-hat and one cymbal. That is all the drummer really needs to practice with. Talk to the drummer and tell him the truth. If he can't take the heat, then you should find another drummer. I've started many groups years ago and nothing is easy with the different personalities. Some folks want to do good on a stage to showcase their talent while others joined groups to play at parties with no further ambition. I never was happy with that situation at all. Good luck with the group. Just my 2 cents worth.......... Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Your situation all depends on if if you guys want to play professionaly of just for fun. If you want to get "bigger" than about the only way is to get a new drummer, that is if he can't push the band. I say this because high paying club owners don't care about a musicians hidden talent, they care about what they can do RIGHT NOW. Now if if a freindship issue its not worth burning bridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Gervais Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Originally posted by ss: Your situation all depends on if if you guys want to play professionaly of just for fun. If you want to get "bigger" than about the only way is to get a new drummer, that is if he can't push the band. I say this because high paying club owners don't care about a musicians hidden talent, they care about what they can do RIGHT NOW. Now if if a freindship issue its not worth burning bridges.SS - personally I have to agree to disagree with you on this one (nothing personal though ). Either way - a problem musician spoils the soup. Playing in clubs you gotta be good - however - even if i am only playing for fun - for the love of it - it ceases to become fun anymore when i am dreading what the lead guitarist is going to say about next about the "jerk drummer". When it gets to the point where i feel the need to ask for opinions online for my dilemma - it's already not fun anymore. So it affects you either way. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Originally posted by Da LadY In Tha Pink Dress: My guitarist keeps whining about how bad our drummer is because he used to play drums himself. LadYEverybody has their own job to do. I would suggest the the guitarist that, unless he was trying to get the drummer's job, he should worry about his own. In the long run, the riggors of band life require that each member like and trust the other. If this is not the case at this stage of the game, what will it be like when the sharks get involved? So you have to look at the situation logically, and determine if the guitarists personality is one that is always going to find some reason to rock the boat, (in which case you should dump him now), or if the complaints are reasonable (though uncool) and the drummer needs either help or replaced. It's a long, long road, wth a lot of bumps.... the bumps shouldn't come from the band members. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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