Allan Speers Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I'd like to start a serious discussion on ride cymbals. (see my seprate thread regarding hats) I did a search for old threads on this forum, and was shocked to find NONE. As with my "hats" thread, I will start by stating the obvious points: 1: This is very subjective, and all cymbals vary even within the same model. 2: You really should audition them yourself and use your ears. Yeh, well... Subjective is fine. As for auditioning them, there are very few (if any) drumshops, let alone music stores, that have every brand of top-end rides on display. Addtionally, I find it EXTREMELY difficult to judge how a ride will really work in my kit until I get it home, let alone how it will record. -And pity the poor drummer who lives in Butt-Fck Iowa... OK, now that that's out of the way....... ============================================== Please talk about rides that you love, and those you hate. Be specific: Do you primarily use them for live or recording? What genre? What exactly do you like, dislike? Compare them to other rides as a reference? Loud / soft? dark / bright? complex / simple? how is the bell? Does it "crash" well? If recorded, how does it sit in a mix? ================================================ OK then. I'll start: Of the new rides I found locally (haven't tries too hard yet) the only one worth buying was a 20" Ziljian K custom-dry. This is not a great all-around ride, but works great on ballads and soft pop kinds of tracks. It's a bit soft, and reasonably complex, so it can be played like an instrument" if you know what I mean. The bell is weak and muted, but that's not an issue with the genres I bought it for. My current go-to ride is an old A Zildjian 20" ('70's vintage, I think.) I bought six of them on ebay, and this is the only one that isn't just a wall decoration. (but hey, they make GREAT acoustic diffusors!) This is ALMOST my dream ride. TONS of midrange complexity, perfect balance of wash to stick sound (I don't like them too pingy) a decent "crash" sound and a bell to die for: big fat crang with tons of high end as well. Still, it's not my DREAM ride.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I always liked a good ping from my ride. For a time I even used a zildjian Earth Ride -which I still have. All PING. Actually, not so much 'Ping' as 'Pin'... It was a little too extreme to be a primary ride. But after spending hours in a music store trying different rides like some wine taster, I bought a Zildjian K 20" and have been quite happy. It pings nicely, builds up overtones well without ever over running the ping. You can hit it with the shoulder of the stick and get a nice crash out of it. Just a great cymbal. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platy Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I love dry pingy rides, I have a Sabian 20" HH Leopard ride. Its dry as all hell, has no overpowering overtones, and it has an awsome cutting very bright bell sound. It is very pingy, but it is one of the quiter rides I have played. It has a terribly clangy crash sound, unfortunatley. In school for the jazz band, I use an A custom sizzle ride. I love it for the jazz music, its very washy. It dosen't have a very powerful bell, and it has a very washy strong crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offramp Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 When I first heard the intro to Synchronicity 1 in 1983, I HAD to have that ride cymbal sound. I found it in a 20" Paiste RUDE (or was it 2002 series? same thing? I'm too old to remember...). A few years back, I found a (according to one friend of mine) rare Paiste 18" falt top ride, that has the most indescribable sound...lots of places to work with over the surface of that one. I've upped my standards; now, up yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I managed a drum shop for a couple years, back around 1988. As a result, I got to audition almost every cymbal that came thru the store. The best (to my ears anyway) I ever heard was a Paiste 2002 18", which I scooped up as soon as it came in. I still have it. My current drummer has offered me serious $$$ for it; he also recognizes its incredible sound. It has both great shimmer AND exceptional clarity. I've generally found Sabian makes my preferred crashes & splashes (though Atlas has produced a few great ones as has Wuhan with their chinas), and my fave hihats so far are Zildjian. But I've never heard a ride cymbal that's a match for that Paiste. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reachjkh Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I have a Sabian Larry Londin(sp?) signature ride. I was just talking last night about how the only sound on it I like is the bell. No ping anywhere else on that cymbal. I does have a nice gong-like crash to it that I guess I could possibly use. I'm enjoying reading this thread with the hope of finding a good starting place for when I shop for a new one someday. Hey you white boy there Go play that funky music "ok...what's it pay?" first smoke, then silence your very expensive rig dies so gracefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 I agree about the Larry Londin, its all wash. i can't imagine using it for anything but jazz. I just found a Paiste Signature 20" bright ride that records really well. It cuts through everthing, esp the bell, and the ping-to-wash ratio is about perfect. It's typical Paiste, though: very bright but lacking a bit in body. Still, for the right track it's great, just not an all-around ride, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Gervais Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I much prefer the Zildjian Custom "A" series 20" ride........ When i was searching for my ride i must have checked 30 or 40 cymbals......... and went back to the "A" numerous times before finally choosing it. It has a lot of range depending on where you work it with the stick........ i just love the bell and it crashes well with the body of the stick. I ranges from a warm deep tone at the cumbal edge to bright highs about 2 or 3 inches below the bell. For my money it's as close to perfection as i have ever found. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siberian Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I'm using a 20" K custom as well. Except it's not the "dry" model. I love that ride. I don't like a lot of shimmer and wash, at least for the type of music I am playing... I prefer more stick definition and a good presence in the bell sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 My best ride is a late 60's Paiste Formula 602 20" Medium Ride that I've been lucky enough to have since I was 14 years old. They don't make them anymore, but you can sometimes get them on eBay for about $300. But I would kill all of you to have the ride cymbal Joe Morello used on "Take Five". Hell. I'd kill half of you to have it long enough to sample it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Darvel, you have me very intrigued about the Paiste 602 series. from what i can gleen so far, these are on the dark side. Does that mean that, like old Zildian K's, they are primarily sought by jazz drummers? One of my favorite rides is a friend's vintage K, but it's a fluke, having a lot more top-end than most I've heard, without giving up midrange complexity. Also, Are ALL 602's worth checking out, or only those from the 60's/ -Or were they only made in the 60's? -Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Ah, the elusive perfect ride cymbal. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a perfect ride for EVERYthing. In the studio at least, it's better to have a couple of different ones that you can switch out for different sounds. My own ride is a 20" Zildjian K Custom medium. It's all right, and for some things it's really good. It has a very strong bell and it pings quite nicely, actually louder than a typical ping. It's a fairly heavy cymbal and the body sounds pretty good, but I kind of favor the old school jazz type of crash/rides where you can get a full tone out of the body and maybe not so much on the bell. It's a good ride for heavier rock stuff, but for more subtle stuff I think it has too many strident overtones in the high-midrange. I tend to favor darker and more complex cymbals, but there's no doubt this puppy has been the perfect choice for some of the stuff I record. The drummer in my band has, to my taste, the best ride I've ever heard. It's a 20" Zildjian from the 60's or 70's, he's not really sure of the model or exact date. But it sounds just perfect to me... SWEET tone no matter where you hit it, and it really responds to the drummer's touch in terms of being able to get all different tones out of it. It has a more present body than mine, like a jazz ride, and the bell isn't as pronounced. It's very balanced throughout the cymbal so that the player makes the decision what kind of tone he wants. If you hit it hard, it's also very loud, and I oughta know cuz I stand right next to it on stage. Anyway, I think it's a fantastic sounding cymbal, wish I could tell you more about which model and vintage it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offramp Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 dayvel, my first set of cymabls were '60's 602's. The ride cymbal was stolen from me when I was a Freshman in HS by a Senior. Everyone knew he did it, no one would step forward. Most things in life, I've let go. To this day, I'd still kick that asshole square in the nuts if I ever saw him again. I still have the hats. They developed a crack, which I've tried to head off at the pass by drilling, but they're still fragile. I've upped my standards; now, up yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I really wish Paiste would do a "re-issue" of the 602s, they were great cymbals. Allan, the 602s are kind of the opposite of the classic Ks. Not nearly as much "spizz" as the Ks and definitely not dark, but very clear sounding with good stick definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 1, 2003 Author Share Posted November 1, 2003 dayvel, I saw an ebay auction that implies Paiste indeed has a new line that is close to the 602. Could be interesting, if the old alloy is still available, and if this guy is right. This auction description is worth reading regardless. It's one of the most hilarious descriptions I've ever seen: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567860676&category=41445 --------------------- Lee, you're makin' me cry, because the all-time "best" cymbal I've ever played, which belongs to a friend, is also a 60's Zildian 20" (I think back then the only models were "A" and "K") You described its attributes perfectly. The wealth of tones you can draw out of it is stunning, it's an instrument unto itself. I have yet to hear ANY modern ride that even comes close. I tried buying a bunch of ols Zildian 20" A's on ebay, but 5 out of 6 are worthless. #6 is on my stand now (see my original post), but it rings a bit too long and isn't quite as magical as my friend's. This will make you nuts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 LOL Allan! That auction description totally cracked me up! I'm forwarding it to our drummer immediately. And yes, that old ride cymbal does indeed make me cry, there are definitely none like it now. I'm just glad that I get to hear it all the time, and being played by a great drummer who knows how to get all those wonderful tones out of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHatterTCM Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 two rides that I love. I have a ride at the church that's from the 80's. Zildjian A 24" ping ride. Really nice. I don't think they make the 24" ones anymore. But I may be wrong. and this thing has an awesome crash as well. Like a seriously awesome crash.. Other favorite: Paiste dimensions Power bell ride 20" this is my personal one that I've had the last year. I'll never depart it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Dayvel & offramp, i just snagged a 60's paiste 602 20" on ebay for $112, shipping included. Of course they all vary, but for that price I can always re-sell it if it doesn't suit me. I'm assuming this will be a good jazz / ballad / soft pop type of cymbal, so still not my "dream" cymbal but hopefully a great addition to my arsenal. I'll let you know what I think when it arrives. BTW, there are two more for auction right now. One is at $75 with three bidders, and the other, which looks brand new, is at $200 (that one may be a re-issue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Sounds like you got a good deal. Thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I have a 22" Zildjian K Custom Dark and a 22" A Custom Ping which I both love; each for different situations. I find that depending on which Ride is on the stand at any one time, I play differently. Each pie speaks to me in a very different way and so I respond to that voice in kind! This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hey Dayvel or Offramp: My Paiste 602 isn't here yet (a few more days) but I was looking on ebay for hats. I notice that some of the formula 602's have bold blue letters, while some have none. I at first figured that the latter simply had been cleaned, removing the ink, but then I noticed that the "blue" ones seem to be going for the big bucks, while the "plain" 602's tend to go for a lot less. -It was the same when I bid on mine. Is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 I did some Googling on this, and here's what I found out- Late 50's to about 1970 they used a logo stamped into the metal. 1970's to about 1982, a printed black logo. 1982-1987, printed blue logo. The "blue label" Paistes are actually considered the least desirable (probably for no good reason) so it seems the folks selling on eBay have things exactly bacwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Double thanks! -Mine has the stamped logo. Yowsa! -Actually, it IS possible that the earlier ones (like most things) are better. Maybe not. Even if all supposedly use the same alloy, that alloy could have changed slightly, as it did with Zildjian, and for the same reasons. (available source metals, purity, etc.) As long as the old ones go for less, it's a no-brainer. Can't wait to hear this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Thanks for reviving my interest in picking these guys up on eBay; it looks like the prices have come way down on these things. With everybody concentrating on the "blue label" ones, it looks like a good time to pick up a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Yup. -Of course, now we'll probably be bidding against each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvel Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 If you see a 16" thin crash come up for auction, don't bid on it. They're really terrible. I'll buy it as a public service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 No problem. You can have the next crash. I'm going for the ride with the green futz on it (hope it comes off.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 0 1 0 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 right now I've been using a Sabian El Sabor 21". quite nice. lots of variation around the cymbal. Before that 20 AA dry ride. Great bell on that and very crisp tone, but just not enuf volume for live playing. earth blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 I saw a band playing last night. Hard, aggressive rock. The drummer's ride sounded great, very piercing and aggressive, which of course suited that music well. I went up on the break, and it was a Sabian Jo Jo mayer model 21" -weird looking thing. I obviously couldn't try it myself, let alone record with it. Any opinions on this one, especially but not exclusively pertaining to recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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