Recording drums with 4-tracks, computers etc.

[alexclaber]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm actually a bassist myself (though I do enjoy playing the drums very much and one day *will* play drums in a band!) but I'm trying to work out how to record my band and the drums are the biggest challenge.

 

In terms of mics I have an AKG D112, an SM58 (I used to have an SM57 and will probably buy another), two AKG C1000 and a JM47 (very like a Neumann U87). I also have a TFPRO-P3 (clean solidstate pre with opto-compressor and EQ), a Tascam double-speed cassette 4-track (424 Mk2) and a computer running Cubase with a 2in 2out 24/96 soundcard.

 

The problem is that with the 4-track I can record 4 tracks at once whilst with the computer I can only do 2 tracks simultaneously which means the mix has to be perfect. I'm planning on tracking the drums live with the whole band playing and then overdubbing all the other instruments.

 

The kit is just a straight-forward 5-piece with two crashes, hi-hat and ride. Soundwise, I'd like to get something between the clean tight punchiness of Chad Smith on Blood Sugar Sex Magik and the more raw sound you hear on John Bonham (particularly LZ1&2) and Ziggy Modeliste's recordings.

 

How would you recommend achieving this?

 

Cheers,

 

Alex

[djarrett]

Alex:

You are pretty limited with what you can do due to the limit of two channels, but on the good side, you seem to be looking for a raw and open sound. I would suggest trying a large room or tiled room with two overhead mics.

If you cannot get enough bass drum and snare drums, try running a split signal (basically giving you four channels) one each for the overheads, and another for the snare and bass ... or one for one overhead and the snare and another for the bass drum and another overhead.

 

I am not sure how this is done, but my sound guy does this with my bass drum, as I do not have a hole in the head. He mics an AKG in the front and an SM57 in the back. He sends both mics through one channel in the board.

 

Overhead in a wide-open room will give you that Bonham sound you seek.

 

Hope this helped.

DJ

[offramp]

OK, Alex, here goes...

 

The snare is going to be EVERYWHERE. Count on it. second to that will probably be the hi-hats, followed by the cymbals, then toms.

 

Use the D112 on the kick. Put it in front of the head (if you don't have a hole), and back about 6".

 

Use the 2 C1000's as overheads. Position them as a pair, about a foot behind and a foot above the drummer's head, pointed at the middle of the kit. With properly tuned toms, you ought to get enough power from the toms and enough presence from the cymbals to get something you can work with. Run these through the preamp with opto-compressors...you'll need them.

 

If you do all of this in a kitchen--depending on the kitchen design--you'll get a reasonable approximation of what you're after.

[Jazzman]

I think the c1000 mic is ok to use for overheads and for the highhat. Mic the overheads, the bass drum and the highhat. Drop the overheads closer to the set, almost at ear level. That might work better.

 

I might do this.......If I had a small mixing board(Mackie 8 track)and set it up next to the drummer, I would run all of the mics through it first do some EQ on the mics then run the result out in stereo to the four track recorder. The Mackie boards are fairly cheap. Have your drummer play while you tweek the EQ and placement of the mics. This way you can hear all of the mics first before laid down to tape. Then you can add other items in on the other two tracks of the 4 track.

 

Your set-up, I would try to use matched mics if you need to combine them. The mics would probably give you a problem if combined to one signal going to the recorder. You could run all 4 mics to tyhe recorder, then send a combined mix to to tracks on the computer, then bounce back to two tracks of the recorder, while adding to more pieces to the mix. You might be able to repeat it one more time. But your right the mix would need to be great to save the tonal quality of the tune.

 

I once recorded a 7 piece set with one Pizo(sp?) mic. I also have my original 4 track recorder by Tascam. It had a bounce feature on it. I could get it to sound like a ten piece band when finished bouncing. The sound ended up sounding pretty crappy.

 

Did I help you? I don't know if I did!

 

Jazzman

[offramp]

dendy, with your kick drum, your soundman is getting the 'click', or snap percussive, from the beater, with the 57, and all the woompy goodness of large membrane air movement out of the front. He gets lots to work with this way; he can add or subtract as needed to fit with the bassist.

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by offramp:

dendy, with your kick drum, your soundman is getting the 'click', or snap percussive, from the beater, with the 57, and all the woompy goodness of large membrane air movement out of the front. He gets lots to work with this way; he can add or subtract as needed to fit with the bassist.

I think he meant that he didn't know how the soundman combined the two signals onto a single input channel, not that he didn't know why. But I may be completely wrong.

 

The soundman might be putting each mic into a separate channel and bussing them together...otherwise it would be very difficult to balance the signals.

[djarrett]

Yes, I kinda knew why he was doing this, but ... I am not sure how he achieved success combining the split signals into one channel.

 

I am not a sound guy, and never pretended to be. I just do drums! If I did not have sound folks, I would be totally lost.

 

Anyone know how he was achieveing this?

 

DJ